Prospect Info: Round 1, Pick 23: Tyson Foerster, RW, Barrie (OHL)

[Captain Dave Poulin]

The fact that this doesn’t look like a Flyers-type draft pick is what’s most worrying. This isn’t the type of guy we targeted with our last 9 firsts during the Hextall era and Fletchers first draft. In fact, this seems like the kind of player we’d have avoided. The type all the causal fans go nuts over... the big body “sniper”.

It makes me worry that Fletcher and his hires are now interfering with things they shouldn’t be messing with. Drafting was the thing that’s kept us afloat during these years of incompetence... if that changes we’re truly f***ed.

And again, I’m not even against this kid or anything like that. It’s the apparent mentality behind the pick that’s so concerning. Both drafting for “need“ and not even properly recognizing what our needs are.

I agree. Fire Fletch.

 

[Muddy Wilbury]

An article from a friend's ball hockey league about Foerster...

TYSON FOERSTER SELECTED IN THE 1ST ROUND OF THE 2020 NHL DRAFT - NEW TECUMSETH BALL HOCKEY LEAGUE (NTBHL)

 

[Jtown]

I must say this is the most anti Hextall selection of all time. THis may be the most anti- flyer selection of all time....and it may be what the doctor ordered. I pray he becomes an average nhl skater.

 

[FLYguy3911]

With all of the defensemen going before #23, the Chinakov pick, and Askarov, I think it's safe to say that they had Foerster well inside their top 20. Which is wild, but if they believe, go for it I guess.

re: skating

Just as a general point, most every kid improves their skating from 18 into their early 20s so skating improvements have to be graded on a relative scale. Watching a kid that is a poor skater skate in the offseason and saying his skating has improved should not be good enough. A poor skater has to make massive strides just to catch up to his peers and then hopefully still improve on top of that.

 

[flyersnorth]

Nice pick. We definitely need a pure goal scorer, and this kid seems dedicated to his craft.

Gonna be nice to see him in 2-4 years with Frost, Patrick, Brink, York.

I figure he'll be on the team in time for our 2nd Cup

 

[Ironmanrulez]

From: Pick224 - Hockey Prospect Stats

 

[Chinatown88]

I'm posting this every single time he scores in the NHL

 

[deadhead]

well we have lots of "fans" who do that here...lol.

Joking aside, Burke said that GM's view skating as the #2 fixable flaw in a player with strength being #1. So seeing him already improve his skating saw his draft status improve and they pointed out that he knows he needs to improve it and is working hard in the offseason to make it better.

Personally, a comment I liked was that someone said he had a Scheifele like passion for hockey. MS is known for being all about hockey, similar how Provy seems to be. And that type of attitude should go a long way in helping him improve his skating flaws. Seems like he wil put the work in to fix it.

Guess we will see. Hopefully when the OHL season starts, we see the comments about how much better his skating has become since the end of last year. Remembering back to the comments on Myers and how he looked like a different player compared to the year before.

We always go, "how did so and so fall to the 2nd (later) round?"
Well, it's usually due to a flaw that made teams wary, and some team saw that the player could improve or work around that flaw.

Problem is you can delude yourself into thinking you can do what's never been done.
On the other hand, Flyer scouts have a good track record of recognizing prospects with achievable upside.

So it comes down to upside and the odds of reaching it, the kid has the skill package, the size, so we'll see.
However, to me, IQ and work ethic tend to be underrated b/c they don't jump out on film like speed and puck handling.
But most improvement occurs between 18-22, and that's driven by work ethic as well as genetics.

 

[VladDrag]

I guess I'm gonna have to watch this guy now.

Based on what I've read, and the highlight packages, it really doesn't seem like a Flyers pick. I like that he's not completely one dimensional, and has some other abilities, but the lack of ES scoring is concerning (in a vacuum). @FLYguy3911, you mentioned being below 30% at ES involvement, that's a bit of a red flag to me, but - do you know what his deployment was? Who he was playing with, what line was he playing on? etc.

One thing I do like seeing is where his ES goals come from - in the high danger, medium danger areas. Personally, I prioritize that in prospect watching (in fact, that was one thing I really liked about McMichael last draft) as that's where the majority of goals are scored from in the NHL (84% of goals were scored from HD/MD areas at 5v5 in 19-20 per NST). All the best goal scorers can get to that area, and then have the skill to get the puck in the net.

To me this speaks more to his ability to get to the net and make things happen, as opposed to playing with good playmakers. Admittedly, stat scouting is a terrible way to scout, but looking at his teammates stats, it doesn't seem like he was the benefactor of playing with an exceptionally talented playmaker...could be wrong.

I'll get some viewings on him and see what I like/dislike about him in more detail.

 

[deadhead]

I don't know how to feel about the pick. If Foerster can improve his leg strength and footwork, this could be a homerun pick. Watching video last night and this morning, he always seems to be in the right place and the puck always seems to be around him, so his positional awareness is bang on. And the offensive skills he has simply can't be taught.

One other thing I noticed. The Flyers are really building some size and skill on the wings. I'll be interested to see what Fletcher does with his 2nd round puck. Does he continue down the path of wingers with size or does he take a gamble on one of the defensemen available. Lots of good options still available.

We do have Giroux, TK, Frost and Brink, so it's not like we're the Islanders south.
And our defense is certainly undersized, so you have to compensate somewhere.
With big forwards like Allison, Ratcliffe, Laczynski, Twarynski, Bunnaman, and this kid, Fletcher can feel free to gamble on talented smurfs later in the draft, where you find your steals.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I want to push back a little and say that he's not quite the prototypical "SNIPER". He has a great shot, but he's not burying his head and letting them rip all game. He can get his linemates involved as well. He's a pretty well-rounded dual threat player in the offensive zone.

 

[BernieParent]

Just to add:



Actually, two did, so I'm not sure that's the argument you want to make with Perreault and Brisson (I'll concede more solid than plus) on the board.

Haha, thus my answer to Charlie.

 

[BernieParent]

Twitter is love, love is Twitter

View attachment 370806

You're welcome.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

It's going to be fun seeing him in 2-7 years playing on a line with Strome and Laberge in Great Britain.

 

[FLYguy3911]

@FLYguy3911, you mentioned being below 30% at ES involvement, that's a bit of a red flag to me, but - do you know what his deployment was? Who he was playing with, what line was he playing on? etc.

Most every game I watched was in the second half of the year after the trade deadline and he was the 1RW and on PP1 as the LW triggerman. His center was Evan Vierling who will probably go in the early part of today's phase of the draft. Vierling sputtered in Flint, but he was a 2nd overall pick in the OHL draft and has talent. While I thought Foerster was better and the driver of that line, I don't think Vierling exactly took a backseat either.

The reason I like to look at involvement and relative stats is to try to strip out the QoT factor as much as I can. A great offensive talent should standout on a "bad" team. I don't really question Foerster's offensive talent, but if I am taking a winger in the first round with skating issues, I don't also want to answer questions about his ability to impact the game at ES. In an ideal world, you should only need to worry about the skating - like Brink.

 

[Chinatown88]

I want Vierling.

 

[BritainStix]

Define "trash." I admitted my read is flimsy and confused, good and bad. I also am not a neophyte at evaluating prospects after spending hundreds and hundreds of hours a year doing this. If you know what you're looking for, it takes far fewer games than you imagine to roughly evaluate a player. I don't think my takes have changed one iota since the first game I saw, say, Laczynski or Millman or Farabee, etc. I also have analytical samples and others to corroborate things. Do you have anything of substance to add on Tyson Foerster?

Few things.

1) My post wasn't aimed at you at all. You clearly were not trashing an 18 year old prospect that hasn't even finished growing yet. You put forward your opinion and its a valuable conttibution to the thread.

2) I have nothing to add with regards to the player, because I have never seen him play. I didn't even know he existed before the draft. As such, I didn't make any kind of comment on his ability or his projection as an NHL player.

3) I thought my post was fairly clearly aimed at the number of experts who have also never seen the kid play who trashed the pick immediately in the previous 10 pages. This isn't a Derek Matthews selection. Heck half of the comments contradict themselves.

I'm all for evaluating a player, but being in uproar before a projected first rounder has even seen a training camp is rather laughable. It's not like the flyers went off the board. Some people just love to be outraged at just about anything.

 

[Flukeshot]

Maybe the Flyers are ahead of the curve and predicting a massive slow down of the game... Return of the Clutch and Grab era! Everything is cyclical they say.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I want Vierling.

I think the best we can hope for in the second - unless Chuckles trades up - is Theodor Niederbach. But I have a strong feeling that they are taking a Ginningesque defenseman.

 

[Chinatown88]

I think the best we can hope for in the second - unless Chuckles trades up - is Theodor Niederbach. But I have a strong feeling that they are taking a Ginningesque defenseman.

Good thing there isn't a Jordan Spence this year. f***ing Kings.

No more Haggar or Ginnings.

 

[lancer247]

It is good to have speed and be known as a quick skater but if that is the player's primary or even lone quality, with the balance of his ability lacking, eventually he will be challenged.

Two who come to mind are Ron Flockhart and Brad Jones. The former was a whirlwind who lacked enough categorical skills to last at the NHL. The latter was a big free agent signing by Russ Farwell who flopped. Oddly, when Jones was signed that led to a one-day strike not soon thereafter by Ron Sutter who was seeking a better contract during preseason camp. With both sides unhappy, he was traded for Rod Brind'Amour. A free agent "speed" talent led to Brind'Amour in essence. The unpredictability of developing a roster.

Separately, someone somewhere mentioned attitude. The most significant number 1 draft pick in team history who had that deficient reputation was Brian Propp and that crease eventually was ironed into a tidy parcel.

“that crease eventually was ironed into a today parcel” - nice imagery

 

[wankstifier]

Where are you seeing the "plus defensive awareness"? I was looking for views on his defensive game -- MSE posted a couple -- to reply to someone on Twitter (I know!) but there was very little to latch onto.

From a source that doesn’t shy from hyperbole:

Tyson Foerster at eliteprospects.com

 

[VladDrag]

Most every game I watched was in the second half of the year after the trade deadline and he was the 1RW and on PP1 as the LW triggerman. His center was Evan Vierling who will probably go in the early part of today's phase of the draft. Vierling sputtered in Flint, but he was a 2nd overall pick in the OHL draft and has talent. While I thought Foerster was better and the driver of that line, I don't think Vierling exactly took a backseat either.

The reason I like to look at involvement and relative stats is to try to strip out the QoT factor as much as I can. A great offensive talent should standout on a "bad" team. I don't really question Foerster's offensive talent, but if I am taking a winger in the first round with skating issues, I don't also want to answer questions about his ability to impact the game at ES. In an ideal world, you should only need to worry about the skating - like Brink.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to watching him in detail.

I noticed a hell of a lot of good play at 5v5 in the highlights, which included quality anticipation and ability to move into softer spots when he was off the puck. His vision was very good, didn't quite have the passing ability to go with the vision, but it was still good. The highlights only were in the offensive zone, so we'll see how the rest of his game looks, but on the surface, I'm not upset with this pick.

 

[deadhead]

He took a lot of shots, but there's a reason, these were his teammates:

Aidan Brown (21) 57g 20-27 47 0
Brandt Clarke (17) 57g 6-32 38 (D)
Luke Bignell (19) 54g 14-23 37 -1
Evan Vierling (18) 28g 12-22 34 -9 - picked up mid-season, ranked #44-90 in this year's draft
Nathan Allensen (19) 55g 8-23 28 +5 (D)
Ethan Caldwell (18) 26g 11-15 26 -3 - picked up mid-season, ranked #72-107
Victor Hadfield (20) 46g 8-18 26 +4
Josh Nelson (21) 28g 12-10 22 0 - picked up mid-season
Jacob Frasca (17) 51g 6-10 16 -4
Anthony Tabek (18) 28g 3-12 15 -2 - picked up mid-season
Riley Piercey (18) 35g 9-4 13 -14 ranked #129, 167
Nicholas Porco (19) 36g 5-8 13 -20 #142-2019
Matt Hill (19) 63g 2-7 9 -14 (D) #186-2019
Christopher Cameron (21) 55g 2-5 7 0 (D)
Ryan Del Monte (17) 49g 3-3 6 -4
Ian Lemieux (18) 43g 1-5 6 -15 (D) - picked up early season
Matthew Sredl (18) 51g 3-2 5 -21 (D)
Connor Punnett (17) 26g 2-2 4 0 (D) - picked up mid-season
Trey Zagrzebski (17) 43g 1-1 2 -4

Jason Willms (21) 35g 18-23 41 - traded mid-season
Matej Pekar (20) 26g 16-13 29 +7 #94-2018 - traded mid-season
Tyler Tucker (20) 28g 8-21 29 0 (D) #200-2018 - traded mid-season
Ryan Suzuki (19) 21g 5-18 23 -9 - traded mid-season, #28-2019
Jack York (20) 34g 2-7 9 -12 - (D) traded mid-season

 

[IronMarshal]

One thing about Perreault, that was a weird team, 8 players with double digit goals, including 32, 39, 27, 20.
But crazy +/-: Perraault was -34, Guy -31, Bitten -23, Roth -21 - did anyone on that team play defense?
'Course the goalies were pretty bad, Gaudreau .890, Langevin .871. Though only 9 goalies had S% > .900 in the OHL.

No. A really poor defensive structure. The team seemed to not care about their own end. This was the thing that drove Perreault down in the ratings. Poor coaching. That can change as he gets new coaches