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Roster Moves: Roster Thread Talk 2021: it never ends

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Beef Invictus said:
Oh boy another playoff exit where they are outplayed because of terrible coaching coming right up! Same song and dance as ever.

Nothing about this team that actually matters has changed.

Ellis is the only clear and obvious upgrade, and he's completely undone by Risto and Yandle who are downgrades. As ever the team never moved forward. Which isnt surprising because that's how Fletcher always works
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Oh come on. Ellis is a massive upgrade, & Risto/Yandle is not a downgrade from Myers/Ghost, let alone such a downgrade as to negate Ellis.
 
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BiggE said:
Fletcher hasn’t built a team with the goal of winning a Stanley Cup. Rather he’s built a team with the goal of saving his job.
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Not his job but AV’s. Vigneault has to be sitting on the hottest coaching seat in the NHL. No one expected the Flyers to regress as much as they did last season. If the organization wasn’t on the hook for $15M with him, he’d be down the road now. Fletcher has given AV exactly what the coach claimed to need for success today. He wanted a vet laden lineup and now he has it, unfortunately at the expense of younger players who should be working their way into the lineup this season. Fletcher also gave AV the locker room that he wanted by shipping out certain “malcontents” that the coach felt were getting in his way. There was a cost in that as well; time will show if it was worth it.
The fly in the soup here still remains. Older, slower vets aren’t going to turn the page on AV’s book. An offense heavily reliant on stretch passes is still easy to defend especially when it doesn’t have the speed to generate the break always. A defense that can be forechecked into oblivion is still going to cough up turnovers in its own end. A PP that is poorly constructed still won’t be effective. A PK that doesn’t challenge the opposition will still give up too many goals and wear down its own goalies. A team that, for years, has not been ready to play when the puck gets dropped isn’t going to change. Etc. It’s going to be the SOS until new on ice direction is brought in.
 
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renberg said:
Not his job but AV’s. Vigneault has to be sitting on the hottest coaching seat in the NHL. No one expected the Flyers to regress as much as they did last season. If the organization wasn’t on the hook for $15M with him, he’d be down the road now. Fletcher has given AV exactly what the coach claimed to need for success today. He wanted a vet laden lineup and now he has it, unfortunately at the expense of younger players who should be working their way into the lineup this season. Fletcher also gave AV the locker room that he wanted by shipping out certain “malcontents” that the coach felt were getting in his way. There was a cost in that as well; time will show if it was worth it.
The fly in the soup here still remains. Older, slower vets aren’t going to turn the page on AV’s book. An offense heavily reliant on stretch passes is still easy to defend especially when it doesn’t have the speed to generate the break always. A defense that can be forechecked into oblivion is still going to cough up turnovers in its own end. A PP that is poorly constructed still won’t be effective. A PK that doesn’t challenge the opposition will still give up too many goals and wear down its own goalies. A team that, for years, has not been ready to play when the puck gets dropped isn’t going to change. Etc. It’s going to be the SOS until new on ice direction is brought in.
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If you look at my post above, the only young players who might be blocked by Brassard are NAK and Laczynski. NAK was a disappointment last year and has yet to show he's more than a 4RW, Laczynski is questionable to be 100%, at least in the fall.

Frost's only competition is with himself, if he can't play at a top 9 level he should be back at LHV. The 3C job is his for the taking.

York and Zamula will probably start at LHV, York is 20, and the last two years played 54 college games, 12 Int'l games, and 11 pro games. Zamula the last 3 seasons had 100 WHL games, 18 Int'l games and 27 pro games, or about 2 total years of experience and he's just 21. COVID has cost both players a fair amount of experience, so starting them in the AHL is not the worst thing you can do. If they're NHL ready, it'll be pretty obvious in a few months, they'll dominate the AHL.

Hogberg is actually the player who is closest to the NHL in terms of experience, last four seasons 191 SHL/All games, 23 Int'l, 26 AHL. If he's made the adjustment to NA hockey, he might be the first callup from LHV.
 
I like Manson but he’s 30, has taken an absolute beating, is always hurt, & doesn’t have much leeway for losing a step. A lot more upside with Ristolainen.
 
Beef Invictus said:
You're in for unpleasant surprises. If you thought Ghost and Myers were bad defensively, you're in for an awakening.

Especially in a system that will leave them out to dry.
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You’re in for a surprise if you think the defense corps is not improved from last season.
 
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The more I think about it the more I like our defense. I don’t like the cost to acquire some players and prevent York from playing but it’s slowly growing on me. Ellis is a massive upgrade in itself. This finally allows Braun to never see top 4 duties again which is a huge upgrade in itself lol. I will do the wait and see with risto but if he can simplify his game he can be effective with sanheim. Yandle should be fine with Braun and his real value will be replacing provy on the top pp. I think our 2nd unit will be provorov-Ellis just like it was 2 years ago with prov-niskanen. Hate that but it’s thierrien for you.

So we are essentially replacing Braun, hagg/myers in the top 4 with ellis, risto. I think it’s an upgrade. How much of one depends on risto
 
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Yeah I have no interest in regular season results or being fodder for real contenders in the playoffs. We've done the whole "treading water" thing for too long. I care about being a serious Cup contender. This team is not closer than it was one year ago. Or two years ago. Or when Flutch was hired.
 
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Beef Invictus said:
Nah. They managed to downgrade on Hagg.
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I didn’t think that was possible. A lot of folks said Hagg is the worst defenseman in the league while he was here. Not that I think Risto is good, he isn’t. While it isn’t saying much he is better than Hagg. But Risto’s cap hit sucks for what he brings to the team.
 
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Covid played a massive role in last year’s regression. Every team that had outbreaks similar to the Flyers fell off a cliff after.

it wasn’t the only reason but it’s silly to ignore it. This years team would have been better without any moves. They should be a lot better with the ones they made.

I don’t think we are far from being a cup contender.
 
Do people really think a group of Ellis Risto yandle won't be better this year than ghost Myers hagg were last year?

I think the key factors won't be the additions but will tk farabee lindblom be better than last year. I'm pretty confident in hart but his performance absolutely needs to turn around.

I will say there's a coaching factor as well but to be truthful I don't think even Tampa has enough to just win on talent so I won't be lazy enough to blame av solely. Some games particularly playoff games are won on the margins and that's where coaching is a factor.
 
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How do you know if a kid is a good player if he plays bad before he's had a long enough career to play good.
Or do we simply go off the prospect list ranking?
 
How do you get long enough career to play good if you don't play?
Just kidding, my desire to engage in this thread is at zero Kelvins level (and the Covid threads have taught me that you are one of the saner ones)
 
Beef Invictus said:
Yeah I have no interest in regular season results or being fodder for real contenders in the playoffs. We've done the whole "treading water" thing for too long. I care about being a serious Cup contender. This team is not closer than it was one year ago. Or two years ago. Or when Flutch was hired.
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i mean rn we have no idea how we will be..either we will get top 3 int he division or barely in the playoffs. We would probably be in the same position or lower if chuck didn't make any moves tbh
 
I don't know how you look at this forward group and not think this team isn't greatly improved from four years ago:

2017-18 (by ES PO TOI):
Forwards: Giroux (30), Voracek (28), Couts (25), Filppula (33), Simmonds (29), TK (20), Patrick (19), Raffl (29), Laughton (23), Lindblom (21), Read (31), Lehtera (30), Weise (29)
Defensemen: Provorov (21), AMac (31), Ghost (24), Manning (27), Gudas (27), Sanheim (21), Hagg (22)
Neuvirth (29), Elliott (32), Mrazek (25)

2021-22:
Forwards: Couts (29), G (34), JVR (32), Hayes (29), Atkinson (32), TK (24), Farabee (21), Frost (22), Lindblom (25), Laughton (27), Allison (24), Brassard (34), NAK (25), Laczynski (24)
Defense: Provorov (25), Ellis (31), Sanheim (25), Risto (27), Yandle (35), Braun (34), Morin (26), York (20), Zamula (21)
Hart (23), Jones (32)
 
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