Roster Moves: Roster Thread Talk 2021: it never ends

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10 guaranteed spots: G - Couts - TK - JVR - Hayes - Atkinson - Lindblom - Farabee - Laughton - Lindblom

battle royal for the last two: Frost - Allison - Brassard - NAK - Laczynski - Thompson

Now if Thompson is as bad as people think he is, how hard would it be to dramatically outplay him in TC?

Unless of course, Frost is a fraud, NAK plays as bad as he did in camp two years ago, Laczynski isn't healthy and Allison was a flash in the pan. Farabee had no trouble beating out veterans, nor did Lindblom.

Brassard is another story, he's "washed up" only relative to his prime, still posted a CFrel +2.0 on Arizona played 3rd line minutes, at this point in his career he's a 4th line forward who'll probably rebound playing 10-12 minutes a night instead of 15.
 
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10 guaranteed spots: G - Couts - TK - JVR - Hayes - Atkinson - Lindblom - Farabee - Laughton - Lindblom

battle royal for the last two: Frost - Allison - Brassard - NAK - Laczynski - Thompson

Now if Thompson is as bad as people think he is, how hard would it be to dramatically outplay him in TC?

Unless of course, Frost is a fraud, NAK plays as bad as he did in camp two years ago, Laczynski isn't healthy and Allison was a flash in the pan. Farabee had no trouble beating out veterans, nor did Lindblom.

Frost probably will dramatically outplay him. It just won't matter. He won't get the spot.

He also shouldn't need to dramatically outplay him. Merely outplaying him at all should be enough.
 
Frost probably will dramatically outplay him. It just won't matter. He won't get the spot.

He also shouldn't need to dramatically outplay him. Merely outplaying him at all should be enough.

If Frost doesn't dramatically outplay Thompson, he's not NHL ready. Period.

I think VA and Fletcher were burnt in 2020 when they played all those prospects (Frost, Twarynski, Bunnaman, Kase, Vorobyev) and they fell flat on their faces. Now they'd rather start the kids in the AHL if they don't make it clear they're NHL ready in camp. LHV is two hours away, if a kid is ready, it'll be obvious, the way it was with Farabee, Myers and Allison. Men among boys.
 
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If Frost doesn't dramatically outplay Thompson, he's not NHL ready. Period.

I think VA and Fletcher were burnt in 2020 when they played all those prospects (Frost, Twarynski, Bunnaman, Kase, Vorobyev) and they fell flat on their faces. Now they'd rather start the kids in the AHL if they don't make it clear they're NHL ready in camp. LHV is two hours away, if a kid is ready, it'll be obvious, the way it was with Farabee, Myers and Allison. Men among boys.

If Thompson is so bad that he needs to be dramatically outplayed to qualify as basically NHL ready, then Fletcher has completely f***ed up by signing him and even having him as a roster option. It's Stewart all over again. We have someone running the team incapable of accurate and sound player evaluations and he should be immediately fired before he can do more damage.

It only serves to prove the team is run on bias instead of merit.
 
Voracek is better, but it's arguable that our roster can buffer that decline and can benefit simply by him being a "greedier" player.

At the very least we'll see fewer passes on wide open nets.

Yeah I understand the idea that it might be a better "fit". I just worry that a small player that is dependent on his ability to find space off pucks using his speed and agility so that he can create room to get off his shot is likely to fall off faster then a player like Voracek.

The idea that Atkinson is a better fit only works if his skill set doesn't decline to a point where he can't play that role more effectively then what Voracek would have brought to the table. It's not a better fit if he isn't doing it effectively.

Edit: He only paced for 21 goals over the last 2 seasons and his shot rate and shooting percentage has fallen during both of those seasons.
 
This tender little morsel of pessimism confirmation has been posted elsewhere and I am just myopic, right?


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Yeah I understand the idea that it might be a better "fit". I just worry that a small player that is dependent on his ability to find space off pucks using his speed and agility so that he can create room to get off his shot is likely to fall off faster then a player like Voracek.

The idea that Atkinson is a better fit only works if his skill set doesn't decline to a point where he can't play that role more effectively then what Voracek would have brought to the table. It's not a better fit if he isn't doing it effectively.

Edit: He only paced for 21 goals over the last 2 seasons and his shot rate and shooting percentage has fallen during both of those seasons.

Yeah. There are fit/need issues that one hopes a shooting player addresses.

But the red flags for another Vinnyesque situation are there.
 
What the f*** are people expecting to hear at this time of the year from a GM?
"... we have pencilled in the kids already and it's their job to lose..."? Who has ever gone with a strategy like that, not even the bottom- of the standings organization are communicating that way.

Of course you have to earn a job and of course, as a nobody, you have to outplay the Vets to get playing time!
 
Frost probably will dramatically outplay him. It just won't matter. He won't get the spot.

He also shouldn't need to dramatically outplay him. Merely outplaying him at all should be enough.

Frost is competing for a 3C job, Thompson is a marginal 4C candidate.
If Frost can't dramatically outplay Thompson, Frost isn't NHL ready.
Because if your 3C isn't >> than your worst 4C candidate, then he's not NHL caliber.
 
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10 guaranteed spots: G - Couts - TK - JVR - Hayes - Atkinson - Lindblom - Farabee - Laughton - Lindblom

battle royal for the last two: Frost - Allison - Brassard - NAK - Laczynski - Thompson

Now if Thompson is as bad as people think he is, how hard would it be to dramatically outplay him in TC?

Unless of course, Frost is a fraud, NAK plays as bad as he did in camp two years ago, Laczynski isn't healthy and Allison was a flash in the pan. Farabee had no trouble beating out veterans, nor did Lindblom.

Brassard is another story, he's "washed up" only relative to his prime, still posted a CFrel +2.0 on Arizona played 3rd line minutes, at this point in his career he's a 4th line forward who'll probably rebound playing 10-12 minutes a night instead of 15.

Got Lindblom in there twice. Those 6 would be battling for the last 3 spots I thinks. With that, I would imagine Allison has the inside edge on a spot, leaving the rest to battle for the final 2.
 


“Hey, AV.”

I don't get it, unless the coaches the Flyers have had are total outliers. This indicates that a players maximum value to the franchise is around the age 22/23 season, and that almost all of their best WAR years are prior to age 24, meanwhile, Flyers head coaches continually sign players in their late 20s early 30s to take the roles of the young players we have available to play in those spots.
 
Meltzer has the Fletch/Flahr transcript up.
HockeyBuzz.com - Bill Meltzer - Quick Hits: Fletcher/Flahr, Rookie Camp, European Prospects, TIFH

Here's a snippet related to the 'veteran' aspect.

In what ways do you like the roster that you put together better than last year heading into the veteran camp?

CF: I think we have more veteran leadership than back to last off-season. This falls on me, as I mentioned before. Matt Niskanen retired. We let Nate Thompson go, or we didn't re-sign Nate Thompson or Tyler Pitlick. We lost some players that are kind of low-maintenance, high-character veteran players and we replaced them with some younger players. Last year, when things started to go awry and we lost our way a little bit, we didn't have what I thought was maybe enough veteran leadership, enough players that could maybe help the younger players get through that situation. You throw the pandemic on top of it and the protocols. It was just a lot of situations none of us had been through.

I thought we were maybe a little bit too young to get through it. This year, when you look at our group, I think we're more of a veteran team than what we were last year. I think we have players that have had a lot of different experiences in this league. I think we're a deeper team. I think our defense in particular has been upgraded. Time will tell. Summer is great and the offseason is great. You make your moves, and you try to improve yourself on paper. Now, camp starts before we get into the games, but the games will start soon enough. We'll find out if we made the appropriate moves.

One of the themes this offseason, it seemed like was getting quality veteran guy on relatively reasonable contracts to fill out at the bottom of the lineup. Essentially at least on paper, you're filling spots that maybe had they not been acquired, would be given to prospects or young players. There's obviously going to be a lot of competition at this camp. For the young guys to essentially beat out those types of guys for spots, are they going to have to play dramatically better than the older guys because the older guys are established?

CF: Yes, definitely. That's where you want to get to as an organization. You want to make it so that young players have to earn their spot. You want the competition level to be high. That's how you get better. That's how young players get better. As we get deeper and as our group matures, we want this to be a difficult team to make. That will certainly ensure that we have a high-end team here. A second part of that as well is just this is a very difficult schedule, not just our clubs but for every club.

As I mentioned before, we have stretches of the season that are very difficult. I believe we're going to need a lot of bodies to get through the year. If you're dipping into your younger players just at the start of the season, then when injuries hit, you're really digging deep into your farm system to just even ice a roster in the NHL.

Besides making the competition level higher and make it more difficult for young players to make the team, what we hope we're doing is simply improving the depth of our team, so when injuries hit, we're recalling high quality players that are ready to play, step in and make a difference.
 
Any chance we get lucky and hit on a late-round gem with Fedotov? What would it take to bring him over next season?

I don't think Sandstrom is the answer, and Ersson and Ustimenko may be a few more years away.

His path and numbers so far look very similar to Samsonov and Sheshterkin.

upload_2021-9-15_9-27-10.png


KHL: Drafted by the Flyers in the seventh round back in 2015, Ivan Fedotov attended the team's Development Camp back in 2016 but has never been signed to play in North America. Due to the ongoing lack of a formal NHL/Russian Hockey Federation transfer agreement, the Flyers still hold his rights six years later. The 6-foot-7 Fedotov, who has never played for the Russian national team in a major tournament, has nonetheless come into his own as a late-bloomer in the KHL. Now with CSKA Moscow, Fedotov leads the league so far this season with a GAA of 0.98 and save percentage of .969 through three starts. He will turn 25 on Nov. 28.
 
What the f*** are people expecting to hear at this time of the year from a GM?
"... we have pencilled in the kids already and it's their job to lose..."? Who has ever gone with a strategy like that, not even the bottom- of the standings organization are communicating that way.

Of course you have to earn a job and of course, as a nobody, you have to outplay the Vets to get playing time!

Something like "We're going to break camp with the 23 (well, 22, thanks cap management, but w/e) best players. Jobs aren't being handed to anyone, rookie or veteran."

The issue is with him saying the rookies have to be "dramatically" better than the vets; that tells me that they're prepared to go with vets who play worse than the prospects simply because they're vets. Unless Frost shows up with his best McDavid impression on, Thompson's going to play even if his preseason performance doesn't justify a slot, and that's idiotic.
 
Of course you have to earn a job and of course, as a nobody, you have to outplay the Vets to get playing time!

yeah i mean the best team wins cups regardless of age, av and fletch haters want all the youth to play and expects dynastys and wants every coach fired if the youth players dont pan out because they cant accept bust from any youth player that hextall drafted.
 
Frost is competing for a 3C job, Thompson is a marginal 4C candidate.
If Frost can't dramatically outplay Thompson, Frost isn't NHL ready.
Because if your 3C isn't >> than your worst 4C candidate, then he's not NHL caliber.

Clinging to obsolete notions of roles is bad management. That's how we ended up with Stewart dragging the team down for a fifth of a season.
 
yeah i mean the best team wins cups regardless of age, av and fletch haters want all the youth to play and expects dynastys and wants every coach fired if the youth players dont pan out because they cant accept bust from any youth player that hextall drafted.

Nobody has ever said any of these things.
 
I don’t see why Frost can’t be the 4c to start the season. Couts/Hayes/Laughton/Frost I’d pencil in to start the year if the roster is healthy. If Frost does really well you can promote him to 3c and if he struggles you try him out at wing. Brassard I’d guess would start the season as the 13th forward so he will get a lot of time this season because of injuries.
 
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