Roster Moves: Roster Thread Talk 2021: it never ends

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Brassard has even said he's more of a winger than a center these days.

Laughton is the most likely 3C if Frost falls flat on his face, like he did two years ago, when after 3 points in his first two games, he had 4 assists in 18 games combined with subpar defense.

It'll be pretty obvious if Frost is ready, he'll be heads and shoulders above Brassard, Thompson, Laczynski or Laughton, he should be a better skater and play maker than those four, and has a plus shot - if he can show those skills on the ice he only has to be mediocre defensively (or how Voracek had a ten year career as a Flyer).
 
So Frost just needs to be as good as the league's 15th highest scorer over the past decade, and hopefully avoid the ugly red minus that blights the careers of Ovechkin, Voracek and Hall.

NHL Stats
 
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Brassard has even said he's more of a winger than a center these days.

Laughton is the most likely 3C if Frost falls flat on his face, like he did two years ago, when after 3 points in his first two games, he had 4 assists in 18 games combined with subpar defense.

It'll be pretty obvious if Frost is ready, he'll be heads and shoulders above Brassard, Thompson, Laczynski or Laughton, he should be a better skater and play maker than those four, and has a plus shot - if he can show those skills on the ice he only has to be mediocre defensively (or how Voracek had a ten year career as a Flyer).

Frost doesn't need to be heads and shoulders better. Simply being better should be enough, but we've already seen that it isn't. If your standard for letting players on the team is that they have to be blatantly a top-6 forward, you're going to miss on lots of players who could have provided utility with upside.
 
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So Frost just needs to be as good as the league's 15th highest scorer over the past decade, and hopefully avoid the ugly red minus that blights the careers of Ovechkin, Voracek and Hall.

NHL Stats

Only if you want to project him at 2C for a decade. :naughty:

Point was, like TK, if you score, you just have to avoid being a liability on defense, I don't think anyone projects Frost as a Selke candidate, but if he's a 1.5 ppg (5x5) scorer, I'd just as soon go with Laughton and Laczynski.
 
Rookie camp opens on Wednesday and main camp the following Wednesday (22nd).

A few notes from Meltzer...
HockeyBuzz.com - Bill Meltzer - Quick Hits: Giroux, Rookie Camp, Frost, Flyers Daily

Here's a snippet on Frost.

3) I'll use Morgan Frost as an example of how yearly progression in Rookie and NHL camp can be used as a progress benchmark from the start of one hockey year to the next.

In the team's 2017 Rookie Camp, late first-round pick Frost showed some of his skills but really wasn't a standout. He was signed to an entry-level contact, went back to the Soo and had a 112-point season (coincidentally, the same number of points that Claude Giroux had for Gatineau in his draft-plus one year).

In 2018, Frost fared fine in Rookie Camp, including a four-point (1g, 3a) showing in the Rookies Game against the New York Islanders' rookies. In his first crack at an NHL camp a week or so later, Frost looked overwhelmed. He wasn't able to keep up with some of the drills. General manager Ron Hextall cut him less than a week into main camp. Frost returned to the Greyhounds for his draft-plus-two year, played in the World Junior Championship (four goals and eight points in five games), posted a 103 points through his first 52 games of the OHL regular season and finished with 109 points in 58 games (Giroux had 106 points in 56 games in his draft-plus-two year in the Q).

n 2019, all the talk in Flyers Rookie Camp was about the trio of Joel Farabee, Frost and Isaac Ratcliffe. When main camp rolled around, in battle drills on Day 2 or 3, Alain Vigneault matched up a line of Frost, Ratcliffe and Jakub Voracek against a line of Sean Couturier, Claude Giroux and Farabee. Farabee held his own Voracek although he certainly didn't dominate. Couturier ate Frost alive on rep after rep, as did Giroux against Ratcliffe.

The next day, Frost was matched against Mikhail Vorobyev; not nearly as accomplished of a player as Couturier but still bigger, stronger and more experienced than Frost. On this day, Frost did a lot better although Vorobyev won a little more than half of their battles. It was a confidence builder for Frost, who went on the have a pretty good preseason (despite battling a groin issue that kept him off the ice for a few days) and he lasted until one of the latter roster cuts. Ratcliffe continued to struggle against the pro guys and was cut sooner. Farabee was the final cut after the team went to Europe, and Bunnaman and Twarynski parlayed consistently strong camps into surprise opening night NHL roster spots.

Frost's rookie year in the AHL saw him make the All-Star Game and make his NHL debut (scoring goals in each of his first two games) but performing a bit inconsistently overall. It wasn't a spectacular first pro year but one with more good than bad.

Fast forward to training camp in January 2021. Frost put together a strong NHL camp. There was no Rookie Camp due to the timeline. Frost excelled in numerous drills and held his own in the scrimmages (there were no preseason games against other NHL teams). He made the NHL roster but, unfortunately, suffered a season-ending shoulder injury in his second game.

He has now rehabbed the shoulder. The expectation is that he should be a top performer in Rookie Camp, match or exceed his January showing come NHL camp and challenge for an NHL roster spot. He may very well be assigned to the Phantoms to start the season -- the numbers game works against him after the offseason signing of Derick Brassard, plus it's been a long time since his last bonafide games due to the pandemic and the shoulder injury. However, Frost has the ability to change that plan either in camp or once the season begins.
Now can someone tell me how Suzukis drills worked in training Camp? I bet he won all his drills vs established NHLer. Btw. COUTS is one of the best players in the whole league. Its no Problem he eats a young Frost alive in drills.... i bet Couts eats Brassard and Thompson alive also! Dinos will stay Dinos
 
So Frost just needs to be as good as the league's 15th highest scorer over the past decade, and hopefully avoid the ugly red minus that blights the careers of Ovechkin, Voracek and Hall.

NHL Stats

Fun facts, Atkinson is 82 on that list, had a worse season last year, is the same age and has the type of body and game that doesn't age well in players 30's. Good times!
 
Fun facts, Atkinson is 82 on that list, had a worse season last year, is the same age and has the type of body and game that doesn't age well in players 30's. Good times!

Voracek is better, but it's arguable that our roster can buffer that decline and can benefit simply by him being a "greedier" player.

At the very least we'll see fewer passes on wide open nets.
 
It’s going to be the surprise of the century if Brassard and Thompson are not starting game 1. And many more after that. Fletcher said the off-season agenda was to acquire low cost veterans. It’s about those intangibles and try hard defense, baby.

We know that veterans’ training camps don’t actually matter — not even Allison’s late season trial mattered (Flahr also said he will not play on the 4th line…..how forward thinking) — but still a young player needs to massively outperform them. Sounds like fair and non-arbitrary evaluations will be made.

Voracek is better, but it's arguable that our roster can buffer that decline and can benefit simply by him being a "greedier" player.

At the very least we'll see fewer passes on wide open nets.

All of this is possible. But Atkinson is also coming off the worst shooting years of his career. It’s not all a given.

The Flyers were not good most of last year manufacturing dangerous chances. And they were not good in transition. It wasn’t just a matter of shooting %s. They were 12th in ES shooting % — and were the best early until a sharp decline. There is no more important skill for offense than passing, so I’m not okay writing that off necessarily. Luckily, the Flyers will balance this equation with other pieces up front end. See above.
 
"They won't even play"
"It's just a couple games"
"It's 4th line minutes. They don't matter"
"If the kids played better they wouldn't have played"

The bottom of this pyramid scheme is "Every team needs low-cost depth" and the pinnacle is "He had no choice."
 
This tender little morsel of pessimism confirmation has been posted elsewhere and I am just myopic, right?



Might as well gun for the AHL at this point because the fact that Thompson and Brassard, who are both washed up, can get in just because they've been around the block is f***ing baffling.

The only thing I hope is that both players just plain suck enough that the young players don't have to do much.
 
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