Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)
- Thread starter tsujimoto74
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We have come far from the days of this...
...to debate if Hischier over-extending into Dahlin is now "predatory".
...to debate if Hischier over-extending into Dahlin is now "predatory".
debaser66
Registered User
- Mar 10, 2012
- 5,114
- 2,836
The THN guys are a bunch of hypocrites writing about their abstract moralistic fantasies.
Just a few weeks ago that Cambell guy posted about a penalty not called deciding the game, while practically not mentioning the blatant elbow to KOs head. Not to mention that guy writes about the issue and whining about it for years but faced with reality he is just stupid dinosaur himself.
The violence Tampa put on in that game and not mentioning any of it.
Guess THN would be better of with chat bots doing the writing.
WhereAreTheCookies
Registered User
I had to do a double take towards the end. Krebs looks a lot like young Brad May from the side. Maybe it was just the low resolution.
A few thoughts on a 4C next year, specifically looking at PK/Faceoff guys in UFA):
1. Lars Eller. (54.6% FO, extensive PK time in Washington/now Colorado)
2. David Kampf (51.1% FO, plays on top PK unit in Toronto)
3. Erik Haula (54.7% FO, plays PK in NJD)
4. Noel Acciari (53.3% FO, played PK in St Louis and Toronto)
5. Blueger (51.4% FO, top PK unit in Pittsburgh, they moved him to add Bonino, oddly)
6. Bonino (Previously strong on FO, big dropoff this year, 48.5%, played top unit PK time in San Jose)
We have ALOT of options to improve our FO and PK this summer. And we have ample cap room. I like Jost...but we really need to find a more toolsy 4th C that gives us more utility. Pretty much every guy on this list does that.
1. Lars Eller. (54.6% FO, extensive PK time in Washington/now Colorado)
2. David Kampf (51.1% FO, plays on top PK unit in Toronto)
3. Erik Haula (54.7% FO, plays PK in NJD)
4. Noel Acciari (53.3% FO, played PK in St Louis and Toronto)
5. Blueger (51.4% FO, top PK unit in Pittsburgh, they moved him to add Bonino, oddly)
6. Bonino (Previously strong on FO, big dropoff this year, 48.5%, played top unit PK time in San Jose)
We have ALOT of options to improve our FO and PK this summer. And we have ample cap room. I like Jost...but we really need to find a more toolsy 4th C that gives us more utility. Pretty much every guy on this list does that.
KeyserSoze81
Registered User
I've wanted Haula for 3-4 years. Would have no problem overpaying for him, as he fills a gaping hole in this roster.
Sabre the Win
Joke of a Franchise
- Jun 27, 2013
- 12,959
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Haula would be a nice get, I think he would fit with this team perfectly. However he is 33 and anything more than 3 years could bite them. I would play it safe and do 2 years.
He also doesn't fit Adams core age idea.
He also doesn't fit Adams core age idea.
My current 'template' for improvement this year looks like:
Olofsson, Bryson, Joker -> Gone.
Jost -> Not qualified or brought back at a lessor cost with the understanding he's going to be 13th forward.
UPL/Comrie -> Brought back but for backup/Rochester roles. No problem moving either via trade however.
A few things I've toyed with:
Olofsson for Silfverberg -> Contracts are similar (1 year left), potential NTC issue. Adds a good defensive forward with PK skills.
Joker for a 2nd round pick (2024).
Dumba to a 4 year, 28M deal. Yes, it's overpaying. But, I think its the kind of deal you have to offer to be competitive in the UFA market as a non playoff team. Term is our enemy, not dollars.
4C is also solved via UFA on a 2 year term. I like Lars Eller. Lots of options in this niche, however.
If Johnson doesn't sign, I'm looking for a veteran, versatile D to carry the bottom pair that can move up the lineup, OK with playing either side, etc. Ian Cole comes to mind, though the recent off ice issues give me pause. If Johnson signs, willing to go to camp with Johnson/Stillman/Lybushkin/Clague fighting for the 5/6 spots and look for reinforcements in season.
As far as goalie goes, this is where I am spending draft capital/prospects. No more half measures in net. Good goalies will ALWAYS have value. In an ideal world, you are looking at 2-3 years of term left, but if there is more, we can look to recoup the cost of acquisition later if Levi is ready to take over the starter spot. Whether it be via Offersheets, trade, cloning experiments with DNA from Haseks old gear, I don't care. No excuses, no stone unturned.
Olofsson, Bryson, Joker -> Gone.
Jost -> Not qualified or brought back at a lessor cost with the understanding he's going to be 13th forward.
UPL/Comrie -> Brought back but for backup/Rochester roles. No problem moving either via trade however.
A few things I've toyed with:
Olofsson for Silfverberg -> Contracts are similar (1 year left), potential NTC issue. Adds a good defensive forward with PK skills.
Joker for a 2nd round pick (2024).
Dumba to a 4 year, 28M deal. Yes, it's overpaying. But, I think its the kind of deal you have to offer to be competitive in the UFA market as a non playoff team. Term is our enemy, not dollars.
4C is also solved via UFA on a 2 year term. I like Lars Eller. Lots of options in this niche, however.
If Johnson doesn't sign, I'm looking for a veteran, versatile D to carry the bottom pair that can move up the lineup, OK with playing either side, etc. Ian Cole comes to mind, though the recent off ice issues give me pause. If Johnson signs, willing to go to camp with Johnson/Stillman/Lybushkin/Clague fighting for the 5/6 spots and look for reinforcements in season.
As far as goalie goes, this is where I am spending draft capital/prospects. No more half measures in net. Good goalies will ALWAYS have value. In an ideal world, you are looking at 2-3 years of term left, but if there is more, we can look to recoup the cost of acquisition later if Levi is ready to take over the starter spot. Whether it be via Offersheets, trade, cloning experiments with DNA from Haseks old gear, I don't care. No excuses, no stone unturned.
Zman5778
Moderator
Kind of? I mean, what kind of value are you talking about?
Vanecek went for a 2nd and 3rd.
Husso's rights went for a 3rd.
Georgiev went for a 3rd and 5th
Vladar went for a 3rd
The last goalie to go for a 1st was the corpse of Fleury, and that was conditional. I honestly can't remember the last goalie that went for an unconditional 1st round pick.....and then on top, I can't think of a goalie that went for a 1st that wasn't at the TDL.
The bottom line here is that good goalies very rarely get traded. The last 5 years or so, if a team is trading for a goalie, they do it with meh picks and hope that the goalie becomes something.
The way good goalies move is that they go to UFA, get contracts with way too much term and then become cap dumps.
You say "no stone unturned"....but there realistically aren't that many stones to turn over. Teams with good goalies don't trade them. UFA goalies aren't worth the term they get (mostly). So then it becomes a case of "find a goalie that you hope develops by trading 2nd/3rd/4th round picks". And then you hope you hit.
WhereAreTheCookies
Registered User
Kuemper went for a 1st+
Schneider and Varlamov also both went for 1sts but that was a while ago.
Those are the ones I remember off the top of my head. Oh and of course Lehner.
Zman5778
Moderator
Yeah, Kuemper was the one I memory-holed. Which is a good analogy for a trade of a guy like Demko or maybe Vejmelka or someone of that ilk. Saros would likely get another premium piece on top of this.
Because it's rare that good goalies get traded. Nearly every goalie you are mentioning was going to be a backup on their previous team.
2016: Andersson to the Leafs for a 1st
2022: Kuemper to the Avs for a 1st
Are the two latest.
If we were to go out and have success with a goalie like Hart, Swayman, or any other goalie who is youngish, and they were on a reasonable deal, and Levi was beyond the a shadow of a doubt ready for a starters gig, the goalie we had would be worth a 1st. So we could recoup some of the draft capital we spent for a starting goalie now and simply push it a year or two into the future, which, given the volume of prospects we have, is fine.
Andersen was 7 years ago, Lehner was 8 years ago (so was Jones), Schneider 10, Varlamov 12. Kuemper's the only 1st round goalie in a sea of 2nd or 3rd round picks in the last 7 years. Guys like Hart have more in common with Georgiev than they do that level of return. The market is NOT first rounders.
Good, we'll be at the front of the line.
Adams needs to find whatever adderall 'scripts Murray left rattling around the desk and start hammering out conditions on picks until we have a starting goalie, top 4 d-man, and some non embarrassing penalty killing unit to roll out.
Bendium
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2019
- 1,907
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Me and my wife just watched it twice.........we miss the good old days of hockey. If hockey wants to put more fans in the seats, it needs move fights, hits, and bench clearing brawls. The history of sports is that people love violence wether they admit it of not.
Another good one -
Please note the "code" of the sack of shit Scott Stevens punching someone in the back of the head while they are engaged with someone else.
MarkusKetterer
Shoulda got one game in
You’re advocating that A: we overpay in trade (Lehner territory which 99% say was an overpay); B: target the best goalie for that, based on the Sabres construction (I slightly agree, as I think a better target is a goalie who’s been behind great D teams and shitty ones) and C: that that same missed goalie would do the same, even though all the ones you complain about that the team missed out on are behind strong D teams.
Last summer I wanted (in no order): Samsonov, Vanecek, Reimer, Francouz, Varlamov, Fedotov and Lankinen. The only one of those who may look like not a train wreck behind this team is Francouz (possibly Fedotov but seeing he’s on an army base in the far north of Russia, nobody knows how he’d do) and he resigned with Colorado before free agency opened. The rest I was even willing to trade a pick for their rights before they moved.
This summer, I’m on the (trade for) Vejmelka and Samsonov train. I’d even be fine if the team overpaid in $$ for Andersen, as long as they expect he’ll be out for injury
Who is a "Good Goalie" in this league in your opinion? And of that list, who do you think might be available? In my opinion, there are maybe 4 or 5 guys that might actually make a difference if acquired, and there is a good chance none of them are actually available.
Goalie stats are really team stats in today's NHL.
Just look at the metrics of goalies the past 5 or 6 years in this league and you will see that guys with very solid metrics behind solid defenses often slide into that "below .900% useless goalie category" when the defense in front of them begins to play suspect - and then those goalies are in the same category that everyone lumps all goalies that play behind this sabre team defense into.
There are only 32 starters, and most of them are among the most skilled netminders in the world. The skills are there for all of them, and what seperates them is 95% mental.
If a the team continues to not do their job and hang a goalie out to dry, the goalies get pissed and lose focus and their game slips. To right the ship, most of them start to play deeper in their nets and are forced to play less aggressively. Even most HoF goalies have fallen prey to this trap as their teams struggled in front of them at one time or another.
Until Buffalo's team defense is addressed, wasting huge assets on a goalie is a fools errand, because you more than likely won't even be able to evaluate what you really have until the team plays somewhat disciplined in front of them.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
Oh good. Now we are fully in 'well the goalie doesn't matter' discussion.
And you are right, the defense DOES matter. And we need to address that.
But, if we put a great defense in front of our current goalies.....we are still going to struggle because it's not NHL level. It wasn't last year, either. Comrie isn't a NHL starter. Anderson is a capable backup as long as he doesn't have to play more than 1 game a week. However, as we've seen, under any sort of starters load, he falls apart. Luukonen wasn't a good AHL goalie....yet we decided it was OK to play him a lot in the NHL.
Buffalo is going to have a serious recruiting issues when it comes to goalies, for the exact reasons you mentioned. On defense, i think you can sell the idea of Power/Dahlin as a potential partner for the life of whatever contract they sign. On forward, you can point to the idea of the need for veteran defensive play and a good young forward group. In goal...well, you gonna have to bring them here via a trade.
I do think there is a bit of a chicken or egg problem that was highlighted by the team playing better in front of Anderson for most of the season than they did UPL/Comrie, where I think the team doesn't have confidence in their goalies either and old man Anderson was a bit of a security blanket.
What we absolutely cannot do is run back who we have in goal. Do we need to spend a first or warm up the offersheet? That I don't know, I'm not sure what the market will be. What we can't do is wait and see what develops. We can't just hope for the best. We need to get a reliable starter who can give you 60+ strong starts. It needs to be a purposeful search where failing isn't an option. Even if we have to overpay.
Improving the defense and running it back with the same goalies would be a fools errand as well because neither Comrie or UPL can handle a starters load.
It has to be both.
stokes84
Registered User
Where else could Johnson sign and have as good a look to play in the NHL?
And add on that he would have a very good shot at playing with a former no. 1 pick as his partner. The kid would have to be dumb as a rock to not see the opportunity here.
And add on that he would have a very good shot at playing with a former no. 1 pick as his partner. The kid would have to be dumb as a rock to not see the opportunity here.
That Iafallo thread on the Trade Board has me wondering if they could get him and someone like Spence or even more, Matt Roy out of LA to get another checking line guy who is a defensively responsible, fast, and offensively competent AND upgrade the RHD options. Iafallo of course is another local kid, a former Sabres dev camp invitee, and I wonder if he'd be looking to come home.
It's going to be a cap pinch for the Kings per their fans, so that's a pick/futures type of deal I would hope they look into.
It's going to be a cap pinch for the Kings per their fans, so that's a pick/futures type of deal I would hope they look into.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
He could step in and be better at Jokiharju's job than Jokiharju, even with the handedness thing. Or there is the idea that he's LDH to Dahlin's RHD in short order. Either should be appealing.
The one team I think might have been a destination just traded for two very good prospect LHD in Mukhamadullin and Okhotyuk, then signed Finn UDFA Valterri Pulli. So that nips off the Sharks who for all of the thoughts of SoCal was the place.
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