Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Zman5778]

Toughness can be alot about how hard it is for a team to be physical with you. For example, about a dozeb times this year I have seen Quinn trying to enter the zone on the left by chipping the puck past the defender at the blue line and then trying to win a foot race to it. The defender would lose that race, but instead turns to chase, an then chips Quinn toward the board stealing his momentum and getting half a step on him. Quinn has to restart his skating stride, and instead just stops, giving up on the play, and skating back toward center to prepare to defend, instead of continuing to skate and still challenging the defenseman for possesion and keeping pressure on the puck. The defender used his greater size to steal momentum, and Quinns lack of toughness to back him down from a possession battle. When this happens 30 times in a game, that's where toughness and physicality become an issue.

A defender doesn't have to have good size to do this. Just good positioning and a willingness to bump. We've seen Dahlin, Sammy and Boosh do this all season. Joker does this when he's on his game. Stillman does this.

Quinn being bigger/tougher in the scenarios you describe won't help him always. If the defender has good position to block out Quinn, that puck is going the other way.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

I've never gotten DJ's infatuation with him either. He might be an upgrade to Joki. He might also be quite worse.

Agreed. I think we need a surefire top 4 guy in there, doesn’t have to be a long term thing. Maybe even 1-2 years. I’d be happy if they’re looking at Fabbro for a bottom pairing guy but not sure I want to put all our eggs in the basket of him boosting this defense to where it needs to be in order to make the playoffs.

Calgary seems to have a few of those guys. Arizona stole Valimaki but maybe a guy like Hanifin shakes free. I’d give up Johnson, Rosen, Joker and a pick for Rasmus Anderson though.

Edit: I’d give up a lot for Rasmus Anderson.

Big Z also may be available and had a good year. I’m not paying much for him but he’d add a bit of size and snarl that I’d be content with protecting Power for a few years.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Gras]

Disappointed JJ didn't say this

 

[Jim Bob]

Disappointed JJ didn't say this

How did Skinner not go with this?

 

[Zman5778]

How did Skinner not go with this?

Maybe it's his goal song for next year.

 

[Chainshot]

Joke

My head

I never thought of that at all....

That's why I've wanted Fabbro as strongly as I do. He's on the outs, so it's the perfect time to move. He was effective as Josi's partner last year, which suggests he could do it for Power.

Can one of you guys please sell me on Fabbro?

Seems to me like another unproven guy who MIGHT be the answer if everything goes perfectly.

I've never gotten DJ's infatuation with him either. He might be an upgrade to Joki. He might also be quite worse.

Go back to Fabbro as Josi's partner in 2021-22 and 2020-21, and he put up a strong showing as Josi's security blanket. They regularly outshot/outchanced the opposition:

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

NHL Lines Advanced Stats (sort by lines, Nashville, defense only).

He's good at what he does and not in the good graces of his coach. That may be a buy-low candidate who is sneaky good.

 

[Bendium]

A defender doesn't have to have good size to do this. Just good positioning and a willingness to bump. We've seen Dahlin, Sammy and Boosh do this all season. Joker does this when he's on his game. Stillman does this.

Quinn being bigger/tougher in the scenarios you describe won't help him always. If the defender has good position to block out Quinn, that puck is going the other way.

Seriously, you say size doesn't matter, and then use two above average size and one average size defender as examples? Or does the argument not matter, and I just violated the rules of a Quinn crush.

Also, I wasn't talking about the scenario where the defender has full position and the wingers only choice is to chip a pass in and then getting stopped at the line by the defender allowing the other defender to retrieve the puck. That happens all the time. I am talking about when the winger is coming up the side with speed and trys a dump and chase creating a one on one race for the puck, trying to win with speed. If your mad cause I used Quinn as an example, I can't do anything for you. He gives up when physically challenged all the time. He will go try to fight and challenge for a puck, but he backs down when they push back. He is a boy in a mans league, so he might out grow it still, but the team as a whole lacks grit and toughness.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

FWIW

 

[Der Jaeger]

Can one of you guys please sell me on Fabbro?

Seems to me like another unproven guy who MIGHT be the answer if everything goes perfectly.

I've never gotten DJ's infatuation with him either. He might be an upgrade to Joki. He might also be quite worse.

Go back to Fabbro as Josi's partner in 2021-22 and 2020-21, and he put up a strong showing as Josi's security blanket. They regularly outshot/outchanced the opposition:

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

NHL Lines Advanced Stats (sort by lines, Nashville, defense only).

He's good at what he does and not in the good graces of his coach. That may be a buy-low candidate who is sneaky good.

Some of you never were on board with what I saw in Tuch either.

Fabbro is, and has been since his days with the Vees, a low risk defender. His positioning has been NHL quality since college, his gap control is great, stick work and interruption of passing lanes is exactly what you want. He’s a good skater with good size. He’s smart and gets the puck out of his zone with possession regularly.

It’s sort of the same issue some had with Samuelsson. Mattias wasn’t putting up numbers. It’s not his game. Fabbro is never going to be much beyond a secondary assist guy, and he’s not a thumper. He’s not going to rush the puck a lot. But the ice is tilted when he’s out there and he knows how to compliment the more offensive partner.

Fabbro is exactly the type of player you put with Power. He’ll play safe and let Power play aggressive. He’s got the same type of effect on a game as Samuelsson.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Some of you never were on board with what I saw in Tuch either.

Fabbro is, and has been since his days with the Vees, a low risk defender. His positioning has been NHL quality since college, his gap control is great, stick work and interruption of passing lanes is exactly what you want. He’s a good skater with good size. He’s smart and gets the puck out of his zone with possession regularly.

It’s sort of the same issue some had with Samuelsson. Mattias wasn’t putting up numbers. It’s not his game. Fabbro is never going to be much beyond a secondary assist guy, and he’s not a thumper. He’s not going to rush the puck a lot. But the ice is tilted when he’s out there and he knows how to compliment the more offensive partner.

Fabbro is exactly the type of player you put with Power. He’ll play safe and let Power play aggressive. He’s got the same type of effect on a game as Samuelsson.

I guess my question is - if he's so good, if he meshed so well with Josi - why isn't he a key player in Nashville? Why is he seemingly on the outs? It's a bit of a red flag - especially for a team with such a good track record at developing young defencemen...

I'll go back to what i said in the dedicated thread on the subject - Adams has the trade assets to go out & get the best guy he can. He doesn't need to gamble on a 'maybe' guy nor does he need to overpay an aging UFA.

FWIW i was always right with you on the Tuch train...

 

[Dingo44]

 

[Der Jaeger]

I guess my question is - if he's so good, if he meshed so well with Josi - why isn't he a key player in Nashville? Why is he seemingly on the outs? It's a bit of a red flag - especially for a team with such a good track record at developing young defencemen...

I'll go back to what i said in the dedicated thread on the subject - Adams has the trade assets to go out & get the best guy he can. He doesn't need to gamble on a 'maybe' guy nor does he need to overpay an aging UFA.

FWIW i was always right with you on the Tuch train...

Fabbro was well on his way to replacing Ellis in the Preds “big 4” defenders until Hynes became the coach.

Sabres fans should be well aware of what a coach can do to a player’s game.

Fabbro isn’t a maybe.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Duplicate

 

[Chainshot]

@Chainshot @Zman5778 If think this fits in a better thread please move it

Jim_Bob posted it in this thread a few pages back. It's an interesting read.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Jim_Bob posted it in this thread a few pages back. It's an interesting read.

Chads response was good

Offseason plan:
Reduce quality against
Get a goaltender
Profit

 

[Der Jaeger]

Sabres fan. You’ve got a lot of RHD now that Livingstone’s signed. I asked before about Fabbro. What would Buffalo need to trade to acquire him?

Thanks in advance.

Hopefully a kings ransom that your management wouldn't want to do. He should not be for sale. He is the future top Dman (maybe already is) for this team.

From the Preds board.

 

[Irie]

Oh good. Now we are fully in 'well the goalie doesn't matter' discussion.

And you are right, the defense DOES matter. And we need to address that.

But, if we put a great defense in front of our current goalies.....we are still going to struggle because it's not NHL level. It wasn't last year, either. Comrie isn't a NHL starter. Anderson is a capable backup as long as he doesn't have to play more than 1 game a week. However, as we've seen, under any sort of starters load, he falls apart. Luukonen wasn't a good AHL goalie....yet we decided it was OK to play him a lot in the NHL.

Buffalo is going to have a serious recruiting issues when it comes to goalies, for the exact reasons you mentioned. On defense, i think you can sell the idea of Power/Dahlin as a potential partner for the life of whatever contract they sign. On forward, you can point to the idea of the need for veteran defensive play and a good young forward group. In goal...well, you gonna have to bring them here via a trade.

I do think there is a bit of a chicken or egg problem that was highlighted by the team playing better in front of Anderson for most of the season than they did UPL/Comrie, where I think the team doesn't have confidence in their goalies either and old man Anderson was a bit of a security blanket.

What we absolutely cannot do is run back who we have in goal. Do we need to spend a first or warm up the offersheet? That I don't know, I'm not sure what the market will be. What we can't do is wait and see what develops. We can't just hope for the best. We need to get a reliable starter who can give you 60+ strong starts. It needs to be a purposeful search where failing isn't an option. Even if we have to overpay.

Improving the defense and running it back with the same goalies would be a fools errand as well because neither Comrie or UPL can handle a starters load.

It has to be both.

What I am saying is that unless Adams manages to grab one of the very few elite netminders, the results will be the same with the majority of other goalies in this league if the D continues to sell them out regularly.

A large reason why the team tends to play somewhat better in the defensive zone in front of Anderson, is because Anderson is known to be a very vocal goalie that communicates and directs the defense in front of him.

But let's not kid ourselves, Anderson had a few herculean like efforts in some games that pushed his stats into a slightly better category, but it was never sustainable and the team can not expect to get that type of effort from any average starter in the league consistently.

Comrie has been pretty solid in the few games where the team actually showed up and limited the ridiculous high danger chances, but he is not good enough to be "the guy" when the team in front of him is putting forth bottom of the league defensive efforts.

Roll back the same team defensive scheme and just about any goalie they acquire that is actually available is going to look like "the wrong choice".

 

[elchud]

What are realistic offers for Mayfield and Varly, assuming we will have to overpay a bit for each?
Mayfield 5x5 ?
Varly 3x4 ?

 

[elchud]

Krebs and 2023 1st (13th overall) for Lawson Crouse
Olofsson (1/2 retained) + Greenway to Chicago for two 2023 2nds (OTT&TBL) and 2023 3rd (DAL)
Joker to Vancouver for a 2023 3rd (TOR) & Joni Jurmo
Bryson in Rochester

Mayfield, 6years x $5
Gaudreau, 3years x $4
Varlamov, 3years x $4
Cole, 2 years x $2.5
Acciari, 2years x $2.25
Jost, 2years x $2
Watson, 2years x $1.75
Girgensons, 2years x $1.5

Skinner - Tage - Tuch
Crouse - Cozens - Quinn
Mittelstadt - Gaudreau - Peterka
Watson - Jost - Acciari
Girgensons

Sammy - Dahlin
Power - Mayfield
Cole - Lyubushkin
Stillman

Varlamov
UPL
Comrie

Top callups from Rochester - Rousek, Kulich, Ryan Johnson

 

[Jim Bob]

Chads response was good

Offseason plan:
Reduce quality against
Get a goaltender
Profit

One challenge with the "reduce quality against" part of the plan is that you could see the youngest roster in the NHL be even younger next season.

4 of their 5 oldest players are UFAs and there is a scenario where all of them are replaced this off season and likely with players that are significantly younger than they were this season.

Some of the defending issues are a result of Granato and staff letting the guys play without worrying about being killed for making mistakes.

But, some of that is due to being young and relatively inexperienced.

 

[Matt Ress]

One challenge with the "reduce quality against" part of the plan is that you could see the youngest roster in the NHL be even younger next season.

4 of their 5 oldest players are UFAs and there is a scenario where all of them are replaced this off season and likely with players that are significantly younger than they were this season.

Some of the defending issues are a result of Granato and staff letting the guys play without worrying about being killed for making mistakes.

But, some of that is due to being young and relatively inexperienced.

Yep. Really accentuates the need for a 3/4 vet D and fresh vet bottom 6 guys. There's possible rookie forward(s), rookie D in Johnson and even a rookie goalie (I know I know, I said possible).
Add to that is the prospect studded forward group that will be displayed in ROC.

 

[Jim Bob]

Yep. Really accentuates the need for a 3/4 vet D and fresh vet bottom 6 guys. There's possible rookie forward(s), rookie D in Johnson and even a rookie goalie (I know I know, I said possible).
Add to that is the prospect studded forward group that will be displayed in ROC.

The approach they take with the bottom six forwards will be really interesting to watch.

They need an upgrade in veteran depth forwards. I just do not know if they go that route. I have a feeling that they will make fewer moves there than most fans want.

 

[TehDoak]

What I am saying is that unless Adams manages to grab one of the very few elite netminders, the results will be the same with the majority of other goalies in this league if the D continues to sell them out regularly.

A large reason why the team tends to play somewhat better in the defensive zone in front of Anderson, is because Anderson is known to be a very vocal goalie that communicates and directs the defense in front of him.

But let's not kid ourselves, Anderson had a few herculean like efforts in some games that pushed his stats into a slightly better category, but it was never sustainable and the team can not expect to get that type of effort from any average starter in the league consistently.

Comrie has been pretty solid in the few games where the team actually showed up and limited the ridiculous high danger chances, but he is not good enough to be "the guy" when the team in front of him is putting forth bottom of the league defensive efforts.

Roll back the same team defensive scheme and just about any goalie they acquire that is actually available is going to look like "the wrong choice".

It's why, as I said, we cannot solve this issue with one move. It has to be adding a d-man (or d-men), it has to be changing up the bottom six forward group, it has to be adjustments to the system. But it absolutely also has to be an investment in goal as well. And getting a goalie to come here with two years worth of evidence of goalie abuse is going to take either a bad contract or you'll have to go pay assets to go get someone. I'm reasonably sure an aggressive GM with a moderate budget can address the D and bottom six forward issue via UFA. The goaltending issue is going to be a bit harder, at least IMHO.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Our opinion is that he's at least a top 4 capable RHD that has been misused this season by our knob of a coach and we'd be pissed off if he was traded for the types of deals usually offered on these boards. Livingstone is irrelevant to the situation--hasn't even set foot on NHL ice yet.

Trading a young top 4 rhd would be silly for a rebuilding team but if i wanted to trade one itd be carrier due to injury history. Fabbro is almost 2 years younger and has an additional 100 nhl games of experience.

He’s not a pmd. He’s a smooth skating defensive defenseman, much like Hamhuis or Klein. Somewhere between those 2 actually

More thoughts about Fabbro from the Preds board.