Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[thewookie1]

Jost, Hinostroza, Anderson, Comrie, Pilut, Stillman, Lybushkin, I'll add Olofsson as a guy they could have moved out last summer.

Jost has actually been rather good
Hinostroza was solid for us last year as depth and just hasn't matched that level this year
Anderson while old has been our best goalie when given limited starts
Comrie was a good attempt but seems to be a swing and a miss
Pilut, was RFA, why not give him a chance?
Stillman is the opposite style of Bryson, Pilut, Clague, etc and isn't an immovable roster spot
Lybushkin when healthy has been a very solid 3RHD
Olofsson as an RFA wouldn't of fetched much; hopefully with 26+ goals this year we can get a useful asset for him

These were all 'well they didn't cost much asset wise and we need to get to the cap floor' moves. And the jost claim only happened because of a run of injuries.

The only cap move was acquiring BIshop. That was due to the number of low contracts we had due to ELC

If they would have invested some capital (cash or assets) and filled these gaps in with quality instead of below replacement level or worse, we'd be talking about our 1st round matchups rather than debating what went wrong.

We wanted youngsters playing; not mercenaries who'd leave in a year or two. The cash they had this season is very much a temporary situation as Cozens and Thompson will be getting 14 mil between them starting next year and Dahlin and Power will be making big bucks in 2 years.

 

[UnleashRasmus]

Is it too early to look at trading Greenway?

To the comments about Jost, he's been a useful piece to the system.

 

[Irie]

Dahlin missed 4 games
Power missed 3 games.
Samuelsson missed 22 games.
Joker missed 22 games

So that's 51 games between the top 4 d-men. That's the equivalent of losing a 2nd pairing guy 15 games into the season. There have been lingering issues and some guys haven't been 100%, but it's not a back breaker. The fact that losing a d-man causes us to have bottom pairing guys playing with Dahlin is the issue. The fact that Joker is a top 4 d-man on a healthy team is an issue. We needed to add a top 4 d-man in the summer and we didn't. Our injuries on D aren't significant enough to say its the issue. The issue is that an injury has Kyle Clague playing top pair minutes.

I don't have a clue how you came to the bolded part as a conclusion, but I do know that you are grossly misrepresenting the situation here.

Looking at the big picture, you also have to understand that the 5th and 6th D man have been out or playing hurt for half the season, so when a top four went out, a 7th, 8th, or 9th depth defender was now in your top 4.

Having certain D out impacts the team a lot more than other D. Do you know what the Sabres win% is with Sameulsson out of the lineup? .227%

Buffalo has dressed 11 different defensemen this year. And you are telling me that they have not had injury issues? When everyone of your top 6 D has missed multiple games, and is playing hurt, the team is going to struggle.

Look at Dallas. Of their top 4, only Heiskanen has missed any time - 3 games. For their top 6, Lundqvist missed a stretch of games with an illness. That's it.

Look at Seattle. Dunn, Larsson, Borgen and Soucy have not missed a single game due to injury, Soucy was scratched a few times just to give Megna and Fleury a game here and there. Oleksiak has missed 4 games due to injury and was suspended for 3, and Shultz missed 11. That's it.

Those are what healthy D's look like.

As for Clague playing top pair, you have to understand NHL coaching. Why does Bogosian play on the top pair in Tampa? Why does Colin Miller play on the top pair of the best team in the west? Both of those guys must be really good, why didn't Buffalo sign them to a huge, long term contracts?!?

Coaches try to balance pairings to avoid pairing liabilities while creating pairings that have some chemistry. They don't just put their top two players together. Clague was actually not getting anywhere near top pairing minutes. Just because he was partnered with Dahlin does not mean he was a top D in that game.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

Is it too early to look at trading Greenway?

To the comments about Jost, he's been a useful piece to the system.

No trade him , i would happily give away a second just getting him far away from this roster

He sucks

 

[DeletedUser539]

I honestly hope they somehow win the draft lottery, not even specifically for Bedard but more because the top prospects are all forwards, and many are centers. It would almost force KA to look at either trading the pick or finally letting go of a few prospects to improve the team in the present.

Honestly as is we need a top four rhd, bottom pairing lhd that is better than bryson stillman and clauge, and physical rw to replace oloffson
Skinner-tage-tuch
Quinn-cozens-jjp
Mitts-krebs-xxx
Girgs-jost-greenway
Sammy-dahlin
Power-xxx
Johnson/xxx-boosh
I don't know if johnson will be ready and boosh is fine as a bottom pair guy but joki needs a change of scenery and maybe we split quinn and jjp. I don't think any of our prospects will be able to make the jump despite great seasons i.e kulich and savoie at least need another/ could still improve in their current league we need to aquire established players instead of trying to plug in these rookies hoping they will be the guys to help get us to the playoffs they will be better of developing without that pressure

 

[Djp]

Again you are bringing up specific deals that 'fell through'

It doesn't change the fact we didn't utilize our draft capital and cap space to improve the team.

In fact we added a dead money contract so we could be BELOW the cap.

This isn't really a discussion.

It is a fact that the team had resources to improve the team and address issues and they chose not to. We can talk about HOW they could have to the cows come home, but we aren't privy to the players that were potentially available. In the end, it doesn't change the fact that they didn't. This season represents a missed opportunity to really move the franchise forward, but cheapness and a lack of coherent plan from the front office prevented that.

just because we have it doesn’t mean we use it. We improve this team by acquiring short term rentals……how did thst go with Lehner, ROR, and Kane?

Looks like the Sabres could have beaten the price paid for Husso, Georgiev, Samsonov or Vanacek without breaking the bank or compromising the future.

Could have offered Schultz +$1m aav over what he got and had a decent 2nd paring RHD.

husdo, Grorgiev, Samsonov are how good?

Schultz is a 2nd pair D??

Some guys I think we should check in on with guesstimate price. I think we need to tinker immensely with our bottom 6 and bottom 3 to become much harder to play against. I like these guys the most out of the UFA crop.

Fantasy Post!

Defensemen:
Dumba RHD - 5.5M?
Orlov LHD 6M?
Severson RHD 6M?
Graves LHD 4M?
Mayfield RHD 5M?
Soucy LHD 4M?
Gavrikov LHD 5M?
Gustafsson LHD 2M?

these price are above what I would spend. I’m not going past 4 yrs of term. We want a D first player.

Forwards:
Hathaway RW 2M?
Wood LW 3M?
Compher C 3.5M?
Barbashev C 3.5M?
Fast RW 2M?
Bjustad C 2M?

the team is looking at bottom 6 players. I think trade is a more likely Avenue.

Goalie:
Jarry 5M

Skinner-TT-Tuch
Mitts-Cozens-Quinn
Peterka-Krebs-Greenway
Wood-Barbashev-Hathaway
(Olof)

Orlov-Dahlin
Power-Severson
Sammy-Mayfield
(Boosh, Gustafsson)

Jarry
UPL
(Levi)

This team is ECC finalists

We’d also be right at the cap if I had to guess.

At what sort of cap/ term ? This is bad.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Looks like the Sabres could have beaten the price paid for Husso, Georgiev, Samsonov or Vanacek without breaking the bank or compromising the future.

Could have offered Schultz +$1m aav over what he got and had a decent 2nd paring RHD.

Husso has a .899 save % making 4.75M for another 3 years. I'd rather not.

Other 3 are playing on very good defensive teams (didn't look great before this year).

Some guys I think we should check in on with guesstimate price. I think we need to tinker immensely with our bottom 6 and bottom 3 to become much harder to play against. I like these guys the most out of the UFA crop.

Fantasy Post!

Defensemen:
Dumba RHD - 5.5M?
Orlov LHD 6M?
Severson RHD 6M?
Graves LHD 4M?
Mayfield RHD 5M?
Soucy LHD 4M?
Gavrikov LHD 5M?
Gustafsson LHD 2M?

Forwards:
Hathaway RW 2M?
Wood LW 3M?
Compher C 3.5M?
Barbashev C 3.5M?
Fast RW 2M?
Bjustad C 2M?

Goalie:
Jarry 5M

Skinner-TT-Tuch
Mitts-Cozens-Quinn
Peterka-Krebs-Greenway
Wood-Barbashev-Hathaway
(Olof)

Orlov-Dahlin
Power-Severson
Sammy-Mayfield
(Boosh, Gustafsson)

Jarry
UPL
(Levi)

This team is ECC finalists

We’d also be right at the cap if I had to guess.

That's so much money for guys well into their 30s. A 9M bottom pair & 8.5M 4th line would definitely be somethin.

"We’d also be right at the cap if I had to guess." By your numbers we'd about 5M over the cap

 

[DeletedUser539]

Some guys I think we should check in on with guesstimate price. I think we need to tinker immensely with our bottom 6 and bottom 3 to become much harder to play against. I like these guys the most out of the UFA crop.

Fantasy Post!

Defensemen:
Dumba RHD - 5.5M?
Orlov LHD 6M?
Severson RHD 6M?
Graves LHD 4M?
Mayfield RHD 5M?
Soucy LHD 4M?
Gavrikov LHD 5M?
Gustafsson LHD 2M?

Forwards:
Hathaway RW 2M?
Wood LW 3M?
Compher C 3.5M?
Barbashev C 3.5M?
Fast RW 2M?
Bjustad C 2M?

Goalie:
Jarry 5M

Skinner-TT-Tuch
Mitts-Cozens-Quinn
Peterka-Krebs-Greenway
Wood-Barbashev-Hathaway
(Olof)

Orlov-Dahlin
Power-Severson
Sammy-Mayfield
(Boosh, Gustafsson)

Jarry
UPL
(Levi)

This team is ECC finalists

We’d also be right at the cap if I had to guess.

I'd target mayfield and graves/gavrikov and jarry rather graves due to more edge

 

[Chainshot]

People will get a full view of Graves and Severson tonight.

 

[Irie]

Looks like the Sabres could have beaten the price paid for Husso, Georgiev, Samsonov or Vanacek without breaking the bank or compromising the future.

Could have offered Schultz +$1m aav over what he got and had a decent 2nd paring RHD.

Schultz only would have been a good option if Power were going to Rochester, imo.

For Seattle he started off great playing alongside Oleksiak, but Oleksiak was playing exactly like he did last season, a reliable defensive rock. The team started scoring in bunches, 10-9 wins, and Oleksiak had a couple of goals and caught the scoring bug, and has been doing his best Paul Coffee impersonation since... and he's been awful.

Paired with Schultz, the two were bleeding goals left and right. Hakstol had to move Borgen up to be Oleksiak's partner to cover for him, and drop Schultz to the third pair with Soucy. Borgen and Oleksiak have been solid enough now and Oleksiak is still carrying the puck up ice, forechecking behind the opponents goal-line, and pinching at all the wrong times, and yet Borgen covers well for him. (Which makes me think Borgen would be the absolute ideal partner for Power- what could have been... ).

Schultz is good on the second PP and very serviceable *if* he has a defensively responsible partner to let him roam a bit. I don't think he fit this team with Power and Dahlin already in the plans.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

delete

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Some guys I think we should check in on with guesstimate price. I think we need to tinker immensely with our bottom 6 and bottom 3 to become much harder to play against. I like these guys the most out of the UFA crop.

Fantasy Post!

Defensemen:
Dumba RHD - 5.5M?
Orlov LHD 6M?
Severson RHD 6M?
Graves LHD 4M?
Mayfield RHD 5M?
Soucy LHD 4M?
Gavrikov LHD 5M?
Gustafsson LHD 2M?

Forwards:
Hathaway RW 2M?
Wood LW 3M?
Compher C 3.5M?
Barbashev C 3.5M?
Fast RW 2M?
Bjustad C 2M?

Goalie:
Jarry 5M

Skinner-TT-Tuch
Mitts-Cozens-Quinn
Peterka-Krebs-Greenway
Wood-Barbashev-Hathaway
(Olof)

Orlov-Dahlin
Power-Severson
Sammy-Mayfield
(Boosh, Gustafsson)

Jarry
UPL
(Levi)

This team is ECC finalists

We’d also be right at the cap if I had to guess.

Reaching too high but I like the list. My most reasonable fantasy summer would be to sign Compher and Graves, trade Olofsson, Stillman, Bryson, and any B picks/prospects to parlay into a trade for Borgen or Matt Roy. A goalie like Jarry would be nice, but I'm gonna have to see KA get a goalie to believe it.

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Quinn - Cozens - Peterka
Mittelstadt - Krebs - Compher
Girgensons - Jost - Greenway
(rotation of waiver exempt Amerks)

Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - Borgen/Roy
Graves - Jokiharhu/Lyubushkin
Lyubushkin/Jokiharju

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Can someone coherently explain why Seattle would trade one of their top 4 D. Specifically Borgen?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Can someone coherently explain why Seattle would trade one of their top 4 D. Specifically Borgen?

JUST a rumor toward the end of the TDL that Sea was shopping him. But they will also have a bit of a cap problem in the summer and might have to make a tough decision on someone. Also, I'm at the point of overpaying for a guy like that. Not Savoie or Kulich, but something that makes it pretty easy for Sea or LA to trade one of their guys.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

JUST a rumor toward the end of the TDL that Sea was shopping him. But they will also have a bit of a cap problem in the summer and might have to make a tough decision on someone. Also, I'm at the point of overpaying for a guy like that. Not Savoie or Kulich, but something that makes it pretty easy for Sea or LA to trade one of their guys.

What kind of salary do people think he’s going to get? I wouldn’t think much north of 2.5M in arbitration.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

What kind of salary do people think he’s going to get? I wouldn’t think much north of 2.5M in arbitration.

Probably about right. Sea has to re-sign Geekie and Dunn which probably costs over 4 mil. They lose Donskoi as a UFA to make room, but have nothing else to spread around the rest of the roster.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Watching other teams around the league, I can honestly say that the only team in the league that has played as poorly in their own end as Buffalo consistently this season is Anaheim.

Anaheim has three decent goalies, and they are all looking like crap. The difference with Anaheim fans is that they know their goalies are average or slightly above average with good D, so they can identify the problem easier.

This team could probably audition 40+ current goalies in this league and they would likely get the same results as long as the team is playing the same defensively.

Granato is relying on heavy puck pressure through the neutral zone to disrupt the oppositions entrance into the Sabres D zone and counting on it to limit their ability to carry the blueline and set-up.

Some games when the other teams are not executing well, it works. But when other teams outwork them, or the other team executes well, the opposition tends to take the blueline rather easily, and the Sabres are sunk. Once teams set up in the D zone, they tend to have their way with the janky D-zone coverage.

I love Granato's communication skills with the young guys and his philosophy of letting them learn in game and him wanting them to read and react to each situation, but i think it is clear a lot of the players are not fairing very well in the reacting to the situation defense part.

More structure is manadatory for the young kids in their own zone if they are going to right the D and goaltending ship, and that may require at least a new assistant coach at the bare minimum. i think.

Great observations and logic. Sabres still have sub par goalies (Anderson the exception but he's to old to carry any load anymore) and less than adequate goalie coaching.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Islanders Coaches and Management | New York Islanders

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

Mitch is heading up the goalie department with the Islanders and not on staff with the Devils.

And he is not the everyday goalie coach as he has reached the age where he wants more of the Dan Girardi type travel way less role.

Thanks. Mitch's mis-location is my error. (I was on the Islander web site earlier checking out the coaching staff and obviously crossed the double line.

Even a semi retired Mitch would be better than what the Sabres have.

 

[BFLO]

Schultz only would have been a good option if Power were going to Rochester, imo.

For Seattle he started off great playing alongside Oleksiak, but Oleksiak was playing exactly like he did last season, a reliable defensive rock. The team started scoring in bunches, 10-9 wins, and Oleksiak had a couple of goals and caught the scoring bug, and has been doing his best Paul Coffee impersonation since... and he's been awful.

Paired with Schultz, the two were bleeding goals left and right. Hakstol had to move Borgen up to be Oleksiak's partner to cover for him, and drop Schultz to the third pair with Soucy. Borgen and Oleksiak have been solid enough now and Oleksiak is still carrying the puck up ice, forechecking behind the opponents goal-line, and pinching at all the wrong times, and yet Borgen covers well for him. (Which makes me think Borgen would be the absolute ideal partner for Power- what could have been... ).

Schultz is good on the second PP and very serviceable *if* he has a defensively responsible partner to let him roam a bit. I don't think he fit this team with Power and Dahlin already in the plans.

Not disputing your assessment of Schultz at all. He’s not great.

With all that said, he’s still an upgrade to the Sabres top 4 over Joki. And adding even a low end #4/#5 like Schultz is still a big boost to our overall defensive depth.

And he would have been a much better allocation of $5mil in cap than Ben Bishop.

 

[Team Cozens]

Jack Quinn is a special player. Can't wait to see the 23/24 version.

 

[TehDoak]

I'll get tired of it when critics stop conflating the theoretical ability to do something with the actual ability to do something.

Adams had a trade ready to go with Ottawa that sent the 16th pick in 2022 to Ottawa for Matt Murray and pick #7. Adams actually completed a trade which added a goaltender as well as getting a higher pick. What a genius! The Sabres come away from day 1 of the draft with Kasper, Savoie, a starting goaltender, and probably Kulich.

Except reality plays in that Murray won't drop his NTC.

What could he have done? That trade? Sign Campbell as a goalie? Sign Nick Paul as the 3C? Sign Jan Rutta as a defenseman? High end stuff that likely was pursued but those players aren't coming to Buffalo.

Adams was pursuing Chychrun. But the deal from Armstrong for Buffalo was a lot higher than what he got from Ottawa. The same Bill Armstrong that got ROR for two bad roster players, a draft pick, and a prospect. You don't think he's going to try to fleece the same organization out of Savoie or Kulich? Adams rightfully walked away from that deal.

Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's probable. Just because Adams didn't do something doesn't mean he wasn't pursuing it. Just because a deal was available doesn't mean it was the right one to make.

But here we are with the stubborn facts

GMs don't get credit for ALMOST making deals.

In the end, Adams had resources. Adams did not use those resources. The team has a wild amount of individual success, but unresolved issues (goaltending, defense, PK), which were well known going into the season, directly leading to the team missing the playoffs.

You can sit here and make all the excuses for Adams you want. It doesn't change the facts:

Sabres had a flawed roster going into the season.
Sabres had resources to address those issues.
Sabres did not address those issues.

That is a failure of management. No going through hypotheticals. And to make matters worse, these were the same issues going back to the PREVIOUS offseason. At least for that offseason, you could argue they were waiting to see what the return for Eichel was before starting to nail down specifics. But still, two offseasons, same problems, zero solutions. Below cap floor teams each season.

Unacceptable.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

JUST a rumor toward the end of the TDL that Sea was shopping him. But they will also have a bit of a cap problem in the summer and might have to make a tough decision on someone. Also, I'm at the point of overpaying for a guy like that. Not Savoie or Kulich, but something that makes it pretty easy for Sea or LA to trade one of their guys.

Adam Larsson's full NTC turns into only a 10-team one on July 1. Buffalo might be on it still...but at 4M for 2 years that could be an interesting target.

 

[BFLO]

True, but would they make a difference? Look at Husso. He's not buoying the Red Wings.

Yes. Any of the 4 of them are a significant upgrade on UPL and Comrie.

 

[Irie]

Not disputing your assessment of Schultz at all. He’s not great.

With all that said, he’s still an upgrade to the Sabres top 4 over Joki. And adding even a low end #4/#5 like Schultz is still a big boost to our overall defensive depth.

And he would have been a much better allocation of $5mil in cap than Ben Bishop.

Well Bishop was no real cash, so he was just unused cap, and this team was never going to reach the ceiling, so it was purely a cautionary move to reach the floor.

I think Schultz would just be another whipping boy here playing in the top 4 unless he were playing with Sameulsson. I just don't think he'd be a really good fit with Power.

I think Adams and Granato have to worry more about chemistry and which players can fit roles more than who is just a better upgrade all around.

This team needs another Defensive D or a defensive oriented two-way D in a bad way imo.

When Sameulsson returns I would like to see Granato end the "converting Joker to a defensive defenseman" experiment. He doesn't have the snarl or the physical net-front presence to be that guy effectively. Move him to the third pairing with Stillman, and give him a little more freedom than being Power's safety-net. Keep Lyubushkin with Power and see if they can't find some chemistry.

I can't see the results being much worse than what we are currently watching.

 

[TehDoak]

here's the plan:

-identify the capabilities of young players on the roster, and ensure they have the opportunity to do that (KA and Don have both said this)
-identify remaining holes in the roster
-identify players that fit the age group, have talent, and match the desired mental characteristics they want
and what value they attach to that player (KA has said this multiple times)
- pursue those players who have a positive cost/talent ratio (theyve been linked to several players that could be considered to fill this step)
- back fill roster while tieing up the least assets that can be used in the future for the previous step (signing cheap, fringe nhlers)

You are talking about 2021-22. That is your evaluation season. You don't need TWO FULL SEASONS for evaluation. You should be able to start addressing needs after 82 games. To say otherwise is either an admission of incompetence or trying to hand waive beyond the bare bones budget.

what we get to see as fans:

-KA and Don talking to the media
-back fill roster while tieing up the least assets that can be used in the future

what you have to assume for that plan to be possible:

-the sabres believed the most valuable outcome of this season was player development

Player development and improving the team aren't a mutually exclusive thing. We knew the holes in the team. The team took half, cheap measures to address them. The results speak for themselves.

which isnt a hard conclusion to come to with the youngest team in the NHL, its not largely contradicted by any league events this season (can list them all but generally the team has behaved the entire season like they believed it was a dev season), its in line with everything that league analysts said preseason (that the sabres were a year away from being ready to compete and arent ready to make big moves using futures), and its consistent with them buying young, fringe nhlers to fill roster positions that are largely absent on the greater roster

and the only real way to distinguish what we've seen this season from the very real possibility that our owner said to KA "my family is sick, we are heading for a recession, my daughter is a ranked tennis pro heading into her prime, and we are about to break ground on a new palace for a football team that just spectacularly shit the bed again, I dont want to worry about how much money my hockey team is losing, keep it tight" is to discuss the things you refuse to discuss, has KA been cheaping out on chychrun/meier/ekholm or is he following the plan or is he doing both, he has free reign until his costs hit a certain point and then the clock starts ticking

you've chosen to say there is no plan and you dont want to talk about the examples of him following the plan, what do you want?

I have all the sympathy for what the Pegula's are going through. If they aren't willing or unable to spend to have a competitive team, they should sell the team. Plain and simple.

You keep repeating the same talking points as being "the plan". The problem is, that plan lacks specifics. The only specific part is "don't spend money".

Nobody is asking them to blow up the young core. Nobody is expecting them to spend all their draft capital. Good GMs find ways to fix their teams issues. Adams did not.