Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Chainshot]

It's likely because joki generally Plays higher in the line up, gets tougher match ups, and therefore looks worse. If he was playing as a 5-6 it wouldn't be as bad. Clague may be worse but he isn't killing the team right now because he isn't being relied upon to shut down top opposition or keep up with our top end talent.

Jokiharju is playing 5-6 minutes more per night than the other two (18:36 to 14:59 for Clague and 13:53 for Bryson) as well as being at 2:01 TOI on the PK to Clague's average of 2 seconds per game and Bryson's 1:03. He's soaking more important minutes and of late not doing it well.

 

[The Blunder Years]

Joker also makes almost $3 million a year, not league minimum.

 

[Irie]

Yep. Defense should (eventually) be -

Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - (top 4 RHD)
Johnson (hopefully, or UFA like Ryan Graves) - Jokiharju
Lyubushkin, (some other slug if they carry 8 Dmen, since I'm tired of watching our slugs)

No Bryson, no Clague, no Stillman.

I like your top six, but if we ar being realistic, they are probably going to have a league minimum guy (or prospect) in their 7 slot after Lyubushkin's term is up, and it might be a Bryson/Clague level player (if not Johnson).

No solid performing vet is going to be happy being acquired or signing in Buffalo and then sitting in the pressbox for weeks at a time. Having upset players can affect team chemistry, and with how diluted the the D talent is around the league, having a strong player in that 7th back-up role may not be realistic, even if it would be ideal.

One of the biggest needs of this team, is to figure out a way to stop losing defensemen to the IR. This season has been a nightmare in that regard.

 

[Chainshot]

I like your top six, but if we ar being realistic, they are probably going to have a league minimum guy (or prospect) in their 7 slot after Lyubushkin's term is up, and it might be a Bryson/Clague level player (if not Johnson).

No solid performing vet is going to be happy being acquired or signing in Buffalo and then sitting in the pressbox for weeks at a time. Having upset players can affect team chemistry, and with how diluted the the D talent is around the league, having a strong player in that 7th back-up role may not be realistic, even if it would be ideal.

One of the biggest needs of this team, is to figure out a way to stop losing defensemen to the IR. This season has been a nightmare in that regard.

They on average go 9 deep on defense. The #7 plays 50-ish games per year. The #8 can be about 2 dozen. The IR will happen. It always happens.

 

[Irie]

I'm not sure why Joki is the whipping boy when there is Bryson and Clague out here that should go waaaaaay before Joki.

Joker is an offensive defenseman, who's offense was completely stunted and neutered by Kreuger and converted into a shut-down defender, which was never his thing.

He's not physical enough for the role Kreuger gave him, and Granato has continued to ask of him, so he leaves a lot to be desired in his deployment.

He does a lot of little things well, and he actually is decent at D, but playing with Power, who is an adventure defensively to say the least, he is in over his head.

But you are right, last nights goal was a prime example of the misplaced blame. Jokiharju was exactly where the coaches tell him to be on that play. Had he charged behind the net to challenge, and a wrap around goal or the same pass that happened had occurred, he would have been at fault and been blamed for leaving the crease.

By staying home and guarding for the wrap on the farside of the net, he was doing what they coaches wanted. Power didn't engage, pulled up to guard the other side of the net, but let the pass through, which was his one job to not let happen when he chose to cover the side of the net instead of engaging in a puck battle. Yet somehow Jokiharju is responsible.

Posters are frustrated and want someone to blame. That is natural and why some posters always have to have a whipping boy to focus all of their angst against.

 

[Irie]

They on average go 9 deep on defense. The #7 plays 50-ish games per year. The #8 can be about 2 dozen. The IR will happen. It always happens.

I agree, but playing the averages, there will be weeks and sometimes a month+ for most teams where the top six is in the lineup.

Counting man games lost (74) from their top 6 may not seem as bad as what has actually occurred because they have had 4 of their top 6 out at the same time, and two or more out of the lineup in a ton of games.

Looking around the league post Seattle expansion, there are very few teams with great players in their 6/7 spots.

D around the league is talent diluted.

Waivers are going to balance out any depth beyond that around the league, so when you get two down, unless you have promising young waiver exempt prospects that can swim in call-up roles, things get dicey.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I like your top six, but if we ar being realistic, they are probably going to have a league minimum guy (or prospect) in their 7 slot after Lyubushkin's term is up, and it might be a Bryson/Clague level player (if not Johnson).

No solid performing vet is going to be happy being acquired or signing in Buffalo and then sitting in the pressbox for weeks at a time. Having upset players can affect team chemistry, and with how diluted the the D talent is around the league, having a strong player in that 7th back-up role may not be realistic, even if it would be ideal.

One of the biggest needs of this team, is to figure out a way to stop losing defensemen to the IR. This season has been a nightmare in that regard.

I shouldn't have listed Lyubushkin, because realistically Johnson isn't starting regular minutes until after his contract expires. I wouldn't expect KA to re-sign him as a #7, or for Lyubushkin to take that role. But maybe all these moves happen this summer, and Lyubushkin finishes as an extra during his last year, whether he likes it or not. As @Chainshot said, injuries would get him ice time anyway.

 

[Chainshot]

I agree, but playing the averages, there will be weeks and sometimes a month+ for most teams where the top six is in the lineup.

Counting man games lost (74) from their top 6 may not seem as bad as what has actually occurred because they have had 4 of their top 6 out at the same time, and two or more out of the lineup in a ton of games.

Looking around the league post Seattle expansion, there are very few teams with great players in their 6/7 spots.

D around the league is talent diluted.

Waivers are going to balance out any depth beyond that around the league, so when you get two down, unless you have promising young waiver exempt prospects that can swim in call-up roles, things get dicey.

Ryan Johnson has entered the chat.

I would also like to see them in on some of the UDFA's this spring. Livingstone may be the plum for everyone. Grigori Dronov could be too though only for that season. Jacob Bengtsson out of Lake Superior State is another one who has a lot of Samuelsson sort of qualities defensively so he'd be another guy. (I'm not saying they could get all of them... just looking to get ONE of them.)

 

[Irie]

Ryan Johnson has entered the chat.

I would also like to see them in on some of the UDFA's this spring. Livingstone may be the plum for everyone. Grigori Dronov could be too though only for that season. Jacob Bengtsson out of Lake Superior State is another one who has a lot of Samuelsson sort of qualities defensively so he'd be another guy. (I'm not saying they could get all of them... just looking to get ONE of them.)

Yeah, I mentioned Johnson as a potential for a "happy in that 7 spot" option.

I think if Adams can entice any of the NCAA free agents to sign it would make a big impact in the depth option for the team moving forward.

It is funny how we all forecast all positions down to 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th call-ups two years out in these forums, but the reality is that some NHL teams can have 50% turnover in a couple of years and still be competitive with the right core.

I imagine we will come up with the perfect plan, and some completely off the radar unknown prospect will get in the mix and solve the problem, leaving all our hard work for naught

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Joker is an offensive defenseman, who's offense was completely stunted and neutered by Kreuger and converted into a shut-down defender, which was never his thing.

He's not physical enough for the role Kreuger gave him, and Granato has continued to ask of him, so he leaves a lot to be desired in his deployment.

He does a lot of little things well, and he actually is decent at D, but playing with Power, who is an adventure defensively to say the least, he is in over his head.

But you are right, last nights goal was a prime example of the misplaced blame. Jokiharju was exactly where the coaches tell him to be on that play. Had he charged behind the net to challenge, and a wrap around goal or the same pass that happened had occurred, he would have been at fault and been blamed for leaving the crease.

By staying home and guarding for the wrap on the farside of the net, he was doing what they coaches wanted. Power didn't engage, pulled up to guard the other side of the net, but let the pass through, which was his one job to not let happen when he chose to cover the side of the net instead of engaging in a puck battle. Yet somehow Jokiharju is responsible.

Posters are frustrated and want someone to blame. That is natural and why some posters always have to have a whipping boy to focus all of their angst against.

Your analysis is spot on. I can only offer that Power's will develop further while Joki has pretty much reached his peak.

It's sad that the Sabres don't have a sage experienced defender (i.e.; Hank Tallinder) at the position who can mentor and tutor Powers in the fine arts and crafts of the NHL game.

 

[Chainshot]

Yeah, I mentioned Johnson as a potential for a "happy in that 7 spot" option.

I think if Adams can entice any of the NCAA free agents to sign it would make a big impact in the depth option for the team moving forward.

It is funny how we all forecast all positions down to 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th call-ups two years out in these forums, but the reality is that some NHL teams can have 50% turnover in a couple of years and still be competitive with the right core.

I imagine we will come up with the perfect plan, and some completely off the radar unknown prospect will get in the mix and solve the problem, leaving all our hard work for naught

I've thought Metsa as a possibility but I'm losing my love for the game when it comes to small depth offensive defensemen.

 

[Chainshot]

Your analysis is spot on. I can only offer that Power's will develop further while Joki has pretty much reached his peak.

It's sad that the Sabres don't have a sage experienced defender (i.e.; Hank Tallinder) at the position who can mentor and tutor Powers in the fine arts and crafts of the NHL game.

I'd like a Bowness or Robinson type of defenseman whisperer to join the staff.

 

[Irie]

Your analysis is spot on. I can only offer that Power's will develop further while Joki has pretty much reached his peak.

It's sad that the Sabres don't have a sage experienced defender (i.e.; Hank Tallinder) at the position who can mentor and tutor Powers in the fine arts and crafts of the NHL game.

I defend Jokiharju probably more than I should on these boards, because I feel we are often missing the context of his situation.

I should make it clear that I think he absolutely should be replaced on the 2nd pair, but I am not yet ready to write him off as having hit his ceiling. I watched him live with the Winterhawks several times, and what made him a first round pick, Kreuger conditioned out of his skillset. His biggest flaw now imo, is his inability to play calm with the puck and make the smart play. I feel like all the young defenders have Kreuger's voice yelling at them, "CLEAR THE ZONE - FIRST AND FOREMOST" in their heads everytime they touch the puck in the D zone.

We saw Risto just banging the puck over and over again off the glass and out, only to be scooped up by the oppositions D and fired right back in under Kreuger. Joker tends to do the same a lot. Even Dahlin still sometimes gets the puck and just lofts it high and up into the neutral zone when he sometimes has more time than a play like that would dictate.

There is talk in this thread of overpaying a guy like Graves to come in, (which I would not be against), while I am not positive, I don't think Graves had played a single NHL game by the time he was Joker's current age.

At 23, especially for a defenseman, I think there should still be a lot of untapped potential there. The trick may be lessening his responsibility and getting him away from Power and down to the third line with a solid, defensively oriented two way partner that can mentor him. I feel like selling on him now may be premature and there is a good chance he may be one of those late blooming players that the switch is just going to flip one day and he could be a really good mid-pairing guy for some team.

 

[Irie]

I've thought Metsa as a possibility but I'm losing my love for the game when it comes to small depth offensive defensemen.

I think it is a problem with the current development trends and why there is a lack of NHL D talent.

The lower development leagues are all following the NHL and getting faster and more skilled, and we have been seeing the archtype for D shift from players that can play D to players that just provide offense from the blueline.

Not too long ago, defensive defensemen like Borgen were dime a dozen in everyone's prospect pool, and you could call them up and ask them to play 12 minutes and provide zero offense, but not hurt the team defensively.

Now, if a team wants to call someone up, all they have to choose from is a Bryson/Clague/Metsa type player, most of whom are more than just a work in progress on the defensive end.

 

[Chainshot]

Watching UNH-Providence and trying to spend time on Colton Huard. I didn't realize but should have that he's Bill Huard's son and has family in Welland, Ontario. He's got the frame at 6'4", not sure if he's a top-shelf prospect but might be that sort of hometown guy as a 9 with some upside.

 

[K8fool]

looking at the 2 week and one month stats..

Last Month's NHL Stats

Last month's NHL player stats - Based on games between Oct 6, 2024 and Nov 5, 2024.

www.quanthockey.com

Thompson tailing off a little.. Skinner going strong.. Cozens and Mitts near a ppg..Jack Quinn stepping up .

Losing Tuch from that list and Dahlin name missing in past month....

peterka rough month. minus 8 w three points .

implies what we are seeing.. Dahlin way more injured than we thought as points dropped off a cliff.. Thompson seems injured for same reason.. I also think ollofson has to be healthy to have the magical shot.. ( shows those 3 really gutting it out but losing torque on their shots)

No wonder we went head hunting w trades.. I don't think Greenway wants that role or also may be injured

Losing two of our Top scorers and having others playing thru but neutered is going to force the rest of this roster to STEP up now .. or be content w having money for caddy's and excellent lunch and trips to ease the pain on not playing hockey after mid April..

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I defend Jokiharju probably more than I should on these boards, because I feel we are often missing the context of his situation.

I should make it clear that I think he absolutely should be replaced on the 2nd pair, but I am not yet ready to write him off as having hit his ceiling. I watched him live with the Winterhawks several times, and what made him a first round pick, Kreuger conditioned out of his skillset. His biggest flaw now imo, is his inability to play calm with the puck and make the smart play. I feel like all the young defenders have Kreuger's voice yelling at them, "CLEAR THE ZONE - FIRST AND FOREMOST" in their heads everytime they touch the puck in the D zone.

We saw Risto just banging the puck over and over again off the glass and out, only to be scooped up by the oppositions D and fired right back in under Kreuger. Joker tends to do the same a lot. Even Dahlin still sometimes gets the puck and just lofts it high and up into the neutral zone when he sometimes has more time than a play like that would dictate.

There is talk in this thread of overpaying a guy like Graves to come in, (which I would not be against), while I am not positive, I don't think Graves had played a single NHL game by the time he was Joker's current age.

At 23, especially for a defenseman, I think there should still be a lot of untapped potential there. The trick may be lessening his responsibility and getting him away from Power and down to the third line with a solid, defensively oriented two way partner that can mentor him. I feel like selling on him now may be premature and there is a good chance he may be one of those late blooming players that the switch is just going to flip one day and he could be a really good mid-pairing guy for some team.

Ryan Graves? I watched Graves here for several seasons. The Avs traded him for Maltsev (!?). The head down double slap shots into the pads of Vegas players during the playoffs leading to break aways was enough for everybody. Let him remain in NJ. It's a good place for him.

 

[Irie]

Ryan Graves? I watched Graves here for several seasons. The Avs traded him for Maltsev (!?). The head down double slap shots into the pads of Vegas players during the playoffs leading to break aways was enough for everybody. Let him remain in NJ. It's a good place for him.

Guy has a couple of bad games in a playoff series (ok, really bad games), and the entire fanbase turned on him But I think the Avs dumped him trying to get anything before they lost him to Seattle in Expansion.

If I remember correctly, Colorado's PK dropped off quite a bit with his departure early that next season, and he's been good in that department for the Devils. Big, mobile D, wins battles and can PK.

I only brought him up because he has been suggested as a target in here by others, and I wanted to draw a reference to age and where he was when he was Joker's age (still in the minors), which put some context on how young Joker still actually is as an NHL defenseman.

I honestly don't see Graves as a realistic option because I think he is going to be pretty overpaid for what he brings, so I don't think Adams goes there, but I do think the Sabres are a better team with him in Bryson's place on that third pairing. He's been actually solid for Jersey, and I think this team could use a 3rd pairing guy that can win some puck battles and can take a lot of Dahlin's PK minutes. With that in mind, I would not complain if he were brought in, as long as they don't think he is the top 4 solution and the term and AVV aren't too long/high.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

Can we still winn the 1 pick in this draft ? How many teams is in the lottery ?

 

[SECRET SQUIRREL]

Can we still winn the 1 pick in this draft ? How many teams is in the lottery ?

Can only move up ten spots if you win and all non-playoff teams are in the lottery.

 

[Gabrielor]

Can we still winn the 1 pick in this draft ? How many teams is in the lottery ?

Buffalo need to finish with the 11th pick or lower pre-lottery to have a chance.

As of today, they are 12th, so could only move to 2.

 

[Grouch]

Buffalo need to finish with the 11th pick or lower pre-lottery to have a chance.

As of today, they are 12th, so could only move to 2.

And this is why the 1st Rnd'r should have been available to get Chychrun, along with JJP. Really feel that KA choked on that potential trade and got waaayyy too conservative. Could have been had without giving up the future and would have addressed a serious gap.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

And this is why the 1st Rnd'r should have been available to get Chychrun, along with JJP. Really feel that KA choked on that potential trade and got waaayyy too conservative. Could have been had without giving up the future and would have addressed a serious gap.

True.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

And this is why the 1st Rnd'r should have been available to get Chychrun, along with JJP. Really feel that KA choked on that potential trade and got waaayyy too conservative. Could have been had without giving up the future and would have addressed a serious gap.

Maybe Armstrong was insistent on Savoie or Kulich, but if KA puts the 2023 1st on the table...UNprotected...I'd like to think that really moves the needle while adding in Rosen or another lesser prospect. But alas...we shall never know. I'm tired of never knowing how close Buffalo could have been to landing a top player that fills a big roster hole. At some point we need to see that top-4 Dman, right...right???

 

[TehDoak]

Buffalo need to finish with the 11th pick or lower pre-lottery to have a chance.

As of today, they are 12th, so could only move to 2.

I'm much more anti tank than I was previously...but if the last game of the season and losing gets us to 11th place, Dahlin, Thompson, Tuch, Power are all resting and Houser is getting the start.