Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Gras]

It's weird to watch the mob form in real time and then it becomes an endorsement rally over time (on Twitter at least). Rosen, RJohnson both as prospects went from being pitchfork and torch territory to appreciated.

To my eyes Rosen has been underwhelming on his callup, or he's at least doing things that dont get him noticed, good or bad.

 

[Chainshot]

To my eyes Rosen has been underwhelming on his callup, or he's at least doing things that dont get him noticed, good or bad.

In his call up, he's been under 10 minutes a game in 4 out of the 6. It's what he does in Rochester though that is the reason he's been up longer than Kulich and what I'm speaking about - that he plays a more complete game at the moment and that has gotten him from being reviled on twitter to someone who actually has support in that outlet. Same with Yonni going from rejectamenta to sought after.

 

[BFLO]

This guy has been so unfairly bashed this year... it's wild.

And I bitched about this signing in the summer.

Toi 50:52 over this span, which is less than half of what our top 4 has played. So he's done well with the 10 minutes a game he's gotten. His xGA/60 is 3rd best.

He has absolutely deserved the criticism he's gotten so far this season.

Prior to his most recent 5 games.

43.22% CF (dead last among Sabres Defensemen)
37.88% xGF (2nd last to Bryson)
xGA/60 (2nd last to clifton)
8 goals for 13 against (2nd last to clifton)

He's also last in SF% and SA/60

 

[Dubi Doo]

I do not understand what type of player you think is going to be available that will play better than Jokiharju is playing now that won't cost the farm, break the cap, will be willing to extend in Buffalo and that is still in their prime.

These types of players that this board covets do not exist. No one is trading Adams a RHD that is playing better than Joker unless they are way overpaid, long in the tooth, or on an expiring contract, in which case, likely won't re-up in Buffalo unless they are, (once again), way overpaid.

I mean, I don't hate your plans, but we need to be realistic here. Blaming Adams for not pulling off the impossible when this vision doesn't become a reality is dumb if it was never realistic to start.

We need a list of top 4 RHD that are available that are playing better than Joker is now, will fit in the cap going forward, are not entering the twilight of their career, can be around for the window and not regressing for 4-5 years, and will be willing to re-sign in Buffalo (if necessary).

I think that list probably looks something like this:

LIST:
.
.
.
.

Yeah. I wouldn't want to be in the business of trading a defenseman who is clearly taking his game to the next level while still being young enough to grow his game more. It just seems like a recipe to get burned.

The one I'd look at trading is Olofsson. He's playing well, but there's not really a spot on the team for him when everyone heals up. He's playing well enough to potentially have value to a team.

I'd still be open to adding a bottom-6 center, but things are tight in the forwars core.

 

[TehDoak]

It’s not unmovable. No trade protection until the final two years. A cost certain former 1OA is most certainly movable. Not advocating he should, but the initial premise is not true.

It's going to largely depend on Power. I think he will probably be fine.

But, as is, that contract is immovable.

Players take on reclamation projects all the time, especially from poorly managed teams. But they aren't going to take one signed to a 8x8.35M deal. It's not a NTC issue, it's a willing partner issue.

The issue is that contract was a completely unneeded roll of the dice by Adams. Given Powers RFA status, there was no need to even talk with him until next July about a contract. He couldn't be offersheeted or file for arbitration. But....that kind of lack of foresight is a hall mark of the Adams front office.

I do not understand what type of player you think is going to be available that will play better than Jokiharju is playing now that won't cost the farm, break the cap, will be willing to extend in Buffalo and that is still in their prime.

These types of players that this board covets do not exist. No one is trading Adams a RHD that is playing better than Joker unless they are way overpaid, long in the tooth, or on an expiring contract, in which case, likely won't re-up in Buffalo unless they are, (once again), way overpaid.

I mean, I don't hate your plans, but we need to be realistic here. Blaming Adams for not pulling off the impossible when this vision doesn't become a reality is dumb if it was never realistic to start.

We need a list of top 4 RHD that are available that are playing better than Joker is now, will fit in the cap going forward, are not entering the twilight of their career, can be around for the window and not regressing for 4-5 years, and will be willing to re-sign in Buffalo (if necessary).

I think that list probably looks something like this:

LIST:
.
.
.
.

It's not about cost it's about fit.

The UFA list this is is potentially enticing. Pesce/Roy/to some extent Tanev. However, you are correct those will be expensive. But, being locked into 3 d-men for the next six years, two of them in the upper end of cost, finding the best fit very important. We need a guy who plays a steady, reliable game that can be a bit of a swiss army knife. Ekholm would have been a good choice last year. Or Brodin-type. Samelsson could get to that....eventually. But we need someone before then.

Like I said, if we can get out of the Clifton deal, I'm fine with keeping Joker. Signing Joker to a deal (even a shorter term deal) gives us 5 d-men you can't make two reliable pairs with, let alone have someone to anchor a 3rd.

The D as is is dysfunctional in their own zone. Yes coaching can fix that, but not with any of the coaches on our team.

But you shouldn't be rushing to keep the status quo, even if the guy is having a decent-ish year.

Changes are needed.

 

[Tatanka]

It's going to largely depend on Power. I think he will probably be fine.

But, as is, that contract is immovable.

Players take on reclamation projects all the time, especially from poorly managed teams. But they aren't going to take one signed to a 8x8.35M deal. It's not a NTC issue, it's a willing partner issue.

The issue is that contract was a completely unneeded roll of the dice by Adams. Given Powers RFA status, there was no need to even talk with him until next July about a contract. He couldn't be offersheeted or file for arbitration. But....that kind of lack of foresight is a hall mark of the Adams front office.



It's not about cost it's about fit.

The UFA list this is is potentially enticing. Pesce/Roy/to some extent Tanev. However, you are correct those will be expensive. But, being locked into 3 d-men for the next six years, two of them in the upper end of cost, finding the best fit very important. We need a guy who plays a steady, reliable game that can be a bit of a swiss army knife. Ekholm would have been a good choice last year. Or Brodin-type. Samelsson could get to that....eventually. But we need someone before then.

Like I said, if we can get out of the Clifton deal, I'm fine with keeping Joker. Signing Joker to a deal (even a shorter term deal) gives us 5 d-men you can't make two reliable pairs with, let alone have someone to anchor a 3rd.

The D as is is dysfunctional in their own zone. Yes coaching can fix that, but not with any of the coaches on our team.

But you shouldn't be rushing to keep the status quo, even if the guy is having a decent-ish year.

Changes are needed.

No its not do not speak in absolutes you are not any more knowledgeable than most on here. He could be moved any time. Again not saying he should or will, but your entire premise of moving Joker is based on a premise that they have no choice. They do.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Saw this on Twitter, its how sad we are.

 

[TehDoak]

No its not do not speak in absolutes you are not any more knowledgeable than most on here. He could be moved any time. Again not saying he should or will, but your entire premise of moving Joker is based on a premise that they have no choice. They do.

Of course they can choose to re-sign him.

But, the defense as is, isn't functional. Yes, a different system or different coaches could fix it.

And yes, Power will get better.

But, signing Joker long term removes the ability to make any significant change to the blue line this summer. And change is needed.

 

[Tatanka]

Of course they can choose to re-sign him.

But, the defense as is, isn't functional. Yes, a different system or different coaches could fix it.

And yes, Power will get better.

But, signing Joker long term removes the ability to make any significant change to the blue line this summer. And change is needed.

My point was that argument left out the possibility Power is the weak link. His contract doesn’t prohibit making a correction if that is what is ultimately decided. Likely? No. But the argument shouldn’t be we have to make Power better. It should how do they make the team better. I felt the extension was premature.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Of course they can choose to re-sign him.

But, the defense as is, isn't functional. Yes, a different system or different coaches could fix it.

And yes, Power will get better.

But, signing Joker long term removes the ability to make any significant change to the blue line this summer. And change is needed.

This isn't true either. Clinging to Clifton as a #6 or just being unwilling to spend extra cap space on the D-corps will remove the ability to make significant changes.

This is a strange notion you have about how to improve the team - trade the improving players you have because they're about to hit a new contract as a RFA...and you don't like them enough. I guess after Mittelstadt and Jokiharju, you want Luukkonen traded also?

 

[Willgamesh]

Saw this on Twitter, its how sad we are.

Is Lucic still playing? do they just tell him to pretend the opposing teams players are his wife?

 

[TehDoak]

This isn't true either. Clinging to Clifton as a #6 or just being unwilling to spend extra cap space on the D-corps will remove the ability to make significant changes.

This is a strange notion you have about how to improve the team - trade the improving players you have because they're about to hit a new contract as a RFA...and you don't like them enough. I guess after Mittelstadt and Jokiharju, you want Luukkonen traded also?

I’m open to moving any players on the roster other than Dahlin. Ones that aren’t tethered to large contracts are easier to move. And yes that includes Luukkonen. None of the players listed (Joker, Mittelstadt, UPL) haven proven they can lead a team to the playoffs or be a key contributor on a successful team. I’m not rushing to make a deal, but some bold roster changing moves and hard decisions need to be done this summer. I’m not saying they should get moved, but running back the same group and expecting different results is silly. It’s a poorly constructed team and isn’t particularly well coached.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

This is perfect!

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I’m open to moving any players on the roster other than Dahlin. Ones that aren’t tethered to large contracts are easier to move. And yes that includes Luukkonen. None of the players listed (Joker, Mittelstadt, UPL) haven proven they can lead a team to the playoffs or be a key contributor on a successful team. I’m not rushing to make a deal, but some bold roster changing moves and hard decisions need to be done this summer. I’m not saying they should get moved, but running back the same group and expecting different results is silly. It’s a poorly constructed team and isn’t particularly well coached.

The bolded makes total sense, but moving your young improving players that are still under team control, especially the ones that are the brighter parts of a lacking roster, makes zero sense. It's baby with the bath water stuff. As for proven playoff performers...there aren't ANY on the roster so singling out Mitts, Joker, and UPL is just not making any point at all.

The players they need to move on from are Olofsson, Jost, Krebs, Okposo, Girgensons, EJ, Clifton (or slot down anyway), and Comrie. Use any of the redundant prospects like Rosen, Savoie, Kisakov, Neuchev, and picks to get proven vets and/or gritty wingers that can add a forecheck to the skill they already have. If a great player becomes available and that team INSISTS on a player like Mitts or Joker going back, then you think hard about it. You don't go looking to move them first.

 

[Snippit]

The bolded makes total sense, but moving your young improving players that are still under team control, especially the ones that are the brighter parts of a lacking roster, makes zero sense. It's baby with the bath water stuff. As for proven playoff performers...there aren't ANY on the roster so singling out Mitts, Joker, and UPL is just not making any point at all.

The players they need to move on from are Olofsson, Jost, Krebs, Okposo, Girgensons, EJ, Clifton (or slot down anyway), and Comrie. Use any of the redundant prospects like Rosen, Savoie, Kisakov, Neuchev, and picks to get proven vets and/or gritty wingers that can add a forecheck to the skill they already have. If a great player becomes available and that team INSISTS on a player like Mitts or Joker going back, then you think hard about it. You don't go looking to move them first.

I’m not using Savoie to get a gritty winger

 

[BFLO]

The bolded makes total sense, but moving your young improving players that are still under team control, especially the ones that are the brighter parts of a lacking roster, makes zero sense. It's baby with the bath water stuff. As for proven playoff performers...there aren't ANY on the roster so singling out Mitts, Joker, and UPL is just not making any point at all.

The players they need to move on from are Olofsson, Jost, Krebs, Okposo, Girgensons, EJ, Clifton (or slot down anyway), and Comrie. Use any of the redundant prospects like Rosen, Savoie, Kisakov, Neuchev, and picks to get proven vets and/or gritty wingers that can add a forecheck to the skill they already have. If a great player becomes available and that team INSISTS on a player like Mitts or Joker going back, then you think hard about it. You don't go looking to move them first.

We don't even need to trade away good prospects to upgrade on your list of players. We just needed to utilize cap space.

edit: We'd have $27mil in capspace this season without those 7 players on the team.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I’m not using Savoie to get a gritty winger

Pretend for second that Savoie would be used in a bigger trade for a proven vet still in their prime.

We don't even need to trade away good prospects to upgrade on your list of players. We just needed to utilize cap space.

Maybe not, but those are the assets KA should be willing to include in trade proposals that could make the kind of impact some posters here are hoping for.

 

[Tatanka]

IMHO there are two aspects that need to be addressed. One has been beaten to death and that is the need for players who are difficult to play against and the other is players who are reliably consistent in a positive way. One element common to both is hockey IQ. We have a too many low IQ players, some being counted on as core pieces, that make the same mental mistakes over and over. Those type of mistakes may not be able to be addressed through coaching or personnel matching If the players are incapable of “seeing“ or committing to the right way. Skill can be honed, but decison making is much more difficult to change.

Ultimately I agree that some difficult decisions need to be made as I do not see this group, as configured getting out of its own way.

 

[BFLO]

Comrie is currently dead last in the league in goals saved above expected out of goalies who have played at least 7 game. (Comrie has played 7 games)

Comrie should probably not see action again until Levi and UPL really lay some stinkers or get injured.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Comrie is currently dead last in the league in goals saved above expected out of goalies who have played at least 7 game. (Comrie has played 7 games)

Comrie should probably not see action again until Levi and UPL really lay some stinkers or get injured.

UPL has won the starter's job, at least for now. Levi belongs in the AHL, where he can be *the guy* while honing his game and acclimatizing to a pro schedule.

Comrie. Aaaaarrrrggggghhhh!! Where tf is our veteran 1B/backup, Kevyn?

 

[BFLO]

UPL has won the starter's job, at least for now. Levi belongs in the AHL, where he can be *the guy* while honing his game and acclimatizing to a pro schedule.

Comrie. Aaaaarrrrggggghhhh!! Where tf is our veteran 1B/backup, Kevyn?

I think for as long as Levi is playing well at the NHL level its fine to keep him up. On the condition that Comrie doesn't get any starts while Levi is up, and UPL is healthy.

I think the important thing is that Levi plays 35-40 games between NHL and AHL this season. And I don't really care about the splits between each league.

If Comrie was at the same level of play as UPL and Levi, then yeah, send Levi down. But Comrie is not, he's literally the worst goalie in the league by GSAx.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

 

[TehDoak]

The bolded makes total sense, but moving your young improving players that are still under team control, especially the ones that are the brighter parts of a lacking roster, makes zero sense. It's baby with the bath water stuff. As for proven playoff performers...there aren't ANY on the roster so singling out Mitts, Joker, and UPL is just not making any point at all.

The players they need to move on from are Olofsson, Jost, Krebs, Okposo, Girgensons, EJ, Clifton (or slot down anyway), and Comrie. Use any of the redundant prospects like Rosen, Savoie, Kisakov, Neuchev, and picks to get proven vets and/or gritty wingers that can add a forecheck to the skill they already have. If a great player becomes available and that team INSISTS on a player like Mitts or Joker going back, then you think hard about it. You don't go looking to move them first.

The issue is, aside from Krebs, there isn't a lot of value there. You are moving bodies out but not bringing much back. I agree those guys probably have to go...but we need to add to.

Part of the issue has been Adams hoarding his picks/prospects like Smaug in his mountain. Buffalo should have been adding good vets and spending some of the draft capital on immediate improvement. Not all, mind you, but some. We are stuck with a metric ton of kids with next to no veteran support.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

The issue is, aside from Krebs, there isn't a lot of value there. You are moving bodies out but not bringing much back. I agree those guys probably have to go...but we need to add to.

Part of the issue has been Adams hoarding his picks/prospects like Smaug in his mountain. Buffalo should have been adding good vets and spending some of the draft capital on immediate improvement. Not all, mind you, but some. We are stuck with a metric ton of kids with next to no veteran support.

Right, they aren't valuable beyond late picks or role players, aside from Krebs. The value is in the prospects and picks, and that's why I say to include Rosen, Savoie, or a couple of the Russians because they are SO redundant. Those guys and picks is how KA should shore up the roster. Talk with the GMs of teams going into rebuild mode that will want those assets - SJ, Calgary, etc. Go after a good UFA target (just one is probably all they can afford).

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Part of the issue has been Adams hoarding his picks/prospects like Smaug in his mountain.

Cap space as well. It's the entire issue with Adams. His drafts have been good, and his extensions appear to be working out (currently a large asterisk for Cozens).

Utilize your assets. The Sabres aren't strictly a "development team" anymore.