Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

And who hired and continues to employ Granato? Who lets him keep his awful assistants with no standard for success to meet? Who gave him these bums that dont compete?

Again, Granato and co. gave the guys confidence, they got Thompson and some others goin- do you not think there was a certain timeframe where Granato worked? Like 90% of us were fine with him when things were getting better- then they peaked, the staff have clearly reached the limit for their abilities, and Adams just has to navigate firing the dude he hired without looking bad himself. I don’t fault him for hiring Granato, I will fault him if he doesn’t fire him asap.

 

[toddkaz]

the sabres are 15th in the east for goals differential

13th in GAA per game
13th in save percentage
11th in goals per game
11th in pp percentage




Those stats look a lot like last year too except the goals per game.

Its not Granato's fault though. The league changed.

 

[Bendium]

I think the Sabres need a legit starting goalie, a top 4 defenseman, and some toughness

Same as the needs the last 3 offseasons.

 

[Bendium]

KA and Granato were fine for awhile, and thier initial plan was working for awhile. However, where its really started falling apart was a year ago offseason when we failed to address the team needs, going into the season without addressing goaltending, or defense. They said they needed more development time. Then it really came off the rails for me whne they failed to realize the rebuild and development were ahead of schedule, and they had an oportunity mid season to make a few trades to fill in holes and make the playoffs. (Not talking about rentals).

Then this off season they once again failed to fill in the holes, and let pass an opportunity to rebuild the bottom 6. They let Peca, the one real two way grit coach in our system go, instead of elevating him to the big club where he could work with Mitts, Cozens, Tage, and our penalty kill. It is clear to me that neither the Management nor coaching staff knows what to do next. There plan got ahead of them and now they are behind the eight ball.

There is time to fix it, but it will take an aggressive plan that they start implementing tomorrow. That scares me as I do not trust them to do it right.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I don't even see Adams as a GM. I see him as the Pegula's representative on the Sabres, his right hand man, his yes man. He's not given the role of a typical GM.

 

[MOGlLNY]

I don't even see Adams as a GM. I see him as the Pegula's representative on the Sabres, his right hand man, his yes man. He's not given the role of a typical GM.

I think it says quite a bit when Granato isn’t talking about “not panicking” and “patience and building through the year” while this is going on like he was during the 8 game losing streak.

I think he expected more moves for this roster in the offseason. Not more young guys.

 

[RefsIdeas]

I don't even see Adams as a GM. I see him as the Pegula's representative on the Sabres, his right hand man, his yes man. He's not given the role of a typical GM.

This is exactly who Adams is.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I don't disagree that KA might be a yes-man and got the job out of convenience/expedience. But the way this team is playing would make ANY goalie look mediocre. UPL and Jokiharju have played better than last season. Other players have improved also. KA's plan is frustrating at times and there are moves I wish he would make, but by far the bigger issue is how Granato and the staff have failed to prepare the roster. The league (which includes a bunch of individual teams) has shifted back to a more defensive game, and Granato has not adjusted (both things are true). They should be playing a high-pressure game like Carolina, and instead play passively without the puck, and then play stupidly with the puck.

When/if Granato ever gets this roster playing properly and they still fail, then I'll start blaming KA for all that's wrong. Again, I'd like KA to make a few moves to get bigger and more physical players (drop Okposo and maybe Girgensons for a meaner version), trade Krebs for a bigger more physical 4th line C, get another Greenway that can complement a scoring line (Niederreiter for ex). None of those moves happening last week would change the shit show that Granato has running out there every night.

 

[Chainshot]

I don't disagree that KA might be a yes-man and got the job out of convenience/expedience. But the way this team is playing would make ANY goalie look mediocre. UPL and Jokiharju have played better than last season. Other players have improved also. KA's plan is frustrating at times and there are moves I wish he would make, but by far the bigger issue is how Granato and the staff have failed to prepare the roster. The league (which includes a bunch of individual teams) has shifted back to a more defensive game, and Granato has not adjusted (both things are true). They should be playing a high-pressure game like Carolina, and instead play passively without the puck, and then play stupidly with the puck.

When/if Granato ever gets this roster playing properly and they still fail, then I'll start blaming KA for all that's wrong. Again, I'd like KA to make a few moves to get bigger and more physical players (drop Okposo and maybe Girgensons for a meaner version), trade Krebs for a bigger more physical 4th line C, get another Greenway that can complement a scoring line (Niederreiter for ex). None of those moves happening last week would change the shit show that Granato has running out there every night.

Or maybe instead of trying to upgrade KO and Gus, they actually try some people with some spine in place of folks like Vic and Jost and hell... most of the rest of the lineup is not even bog standard for a level of competitiveness at the NHL level.

The weaseling out of being at all physical at either end of the ice - that they are off the hook for finishing hits because the staff doesn't view that as constructive does not lend itself to actually putting in the work to fight for and earn space on the ice. And that isn't going to be just one or two guys. Too many of them are way, way too passive at every aspect of the game and some of that is reinforced by the lack of simply stepping into one's man. Perhaps I'm old school, but knocking someone down or at least off stride disrupts forecheck and set in-zone plays from my years of observation. It isn't a matter of killing a man - that's a different area for a different topic about having someone who will draw the team into the game - but of being willing and consistently able to rub someone out of the play.

Being soft and on the wrong side of the puck is a way of life for these guys. Some of that is on the staff. Some of that is on the GM. But a lot of it is on the cravenness of the actions of the roster. How they draw that forward, if they even can, remains to be seen. But this team is nearly unwatchable right now.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I don't disagree that KA might be a yes-man and got the job out of convenience/expedience. But the way this team is playing would make ANY goalie look mediocre. UPL and Jokiharju have played better than last season. Other players have improved also. KA's plan is frustrating at times and there are moves I wish he would make, but by far the bigger issue is how Granato and the staff have failed to prepare the roster. The league (which includes a bunch of individual teams) has shifted back to a more defensive game, and Granato has not adjusted (both things are true). They should be playing a high-pressure game like Carolina, and instead play passively without the puck, and then play stupidly with the puck.

When/if Granato ever gets this roster playing properly and they still fail, then I'll start blaming KA for all that's wrong. Again, I'd like KA to make a few moves to get bigger and more physical players (drop Okposo and maybe Girgensons for a meaner version), trade Krebs for a bigger more physical 4th line C, get another Greenway that can complement a scoring line (Niederreiter for ex). None of those moves happening last week would change the shit show that Granato has running out there every night.

Sounds like an argument for bringing a Krueger-style coach back. I’m not sure I buy it.

 

[Tatanka]

I don't disagree that KA might be a yes-man and got the job out of convenience/expedience. But the way this team is playing would make ANY goalie look mediocre. UPL and Jokiharju have played better than last season. Other players have improved also. KA's plan is frustrating at times and there are moves I wish he would make, but by far the bigger issue is how Granato and the staff have failed to prepare the roster. The league (which includes a bunch of individual teams) has shifted back to a more defensive game, and Granato has not adjusted (both things are true). They should be playing a high-pressure game like Carolina, and instead play passively without the puck, and then play stupidly with the puck.

When/if Granato ever gets this roster playing properly and they still fail, then I'll start blaming KA for all that's wrong. Again, I'd like KA to make a few moves to get bigger and more physical players (drop Okposo and maybe Girgensons for a meaner version), trade Krebs for a bigger more physical 4th line C, get another Greenway that can complement a scoring line (Niederreiter for ex). None of those moves happening last week would change the shit show that Granato has running out there every night.

A coach has two tools that allow him/her to manage the team. One is ice time the other is lineup changes. KA has created a roster where there is no distinction between the types of players. Skinner plays dumb, you can replace with ….VO? Team plays soft. Run oit Greenway and Jost. Samuelson plays Santa Clause with the puck in his own zone. Replace him with…Clifton? UPL plays poorly…take a seat… Eric Comrie your in? The roster is not nearly as good as many thought it was. Even with the players currently out returning, they simply do not match up well with the teams above the NHL mendoza line, i.e. making the playoffs. With too many of the same type of players, soft skilled and dumb, and can’t control a rebound in net, the coach has limited options to initiate and sustain change. That is more on KA than Granato.

Also abandoning the everyone goes through the system unless you are a high pick or threaten to not sign an nhl deal if not placed on the NHL roster destroys the competition all teams need to separate the wheat from the chaffe. I think Granato gets schooled tactically in game situations and needs better counsel from better assistants, but at the end of the day what meaningful changes can he make to make the team less soft? Rant over.

 

[EichHart]

Wdf happened?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Or maybe instead of trying to upgrade KO and Gus, they actually try some people with some spine in place of folks like Vic and Jost and hell... most of the rest of the lineup is not even bog standard for a level of competitiveness at the NHL level.

The weaseling out of being at all physical at either end of the ice - that they are off the hook for finishing hits because the staff doesn't view that as constructive does not lend itself to actually putting in the work to fight for and earn space on the ice. And that isn't going to be just one or two guys. Too many of them are way, way too passive at every aspect of the game and some of that is reinforced by the lack of simply stepping into one's man. Perhaps I'm old school, but knocking someone down or at least off stride disrupts forecheck and set in-zone plays from my years of observation. It isn't a matter of killing a man - that's a different area for a different topic about having someone who will draw the team into the game - but of being willing and consistently able to rub someone out of the play.

Being soft and on the wrong side of the puck is a way of life for these guys. Some of that is on the staff. Some of that is on the GM. But a lot of it is on the cravenness of the actions of the roster. How they draw that forward, if they even can, remains to be seen. But this team is nearly unwatchable right now.

A coach has two tools that allow him/her to manage the team. One is ice time the other is lineup changes. KA has created a roster where there is no distinction between the types of players. Skinner plays dumb, you can replace with ….VO? Team plays soft. Run oit Greenway and Jost. Samuelson plays Santa Clause with the puck in his own zone. Replace him with…Clifton? UPL plays poorly…take a seat… Eric Comrie your in? The roster is not nearly as good as many thought it was. Even with the players currently out returning, they simply do not match up well with the teams above the NHL mendoza line, i.e. making the playoffs. With too many of the same type of players, soft skilled and dumb, and can’t control a rebound in net, the coach has limited options to initiate and sustain change. That is more on KA than Granato.

Also abandoning the everyone goes through the system unless you are a high pick or threaten to not sign an nhl deal if not placed on the NHL roster destroys the competition all teams need to separate the wheat from the chaffe. I think Granato gets schooled tactically in game situations and needs better counsel from better assistants, but at the end of the day what meaningful changes can he make to make the team less soft? Rant over.

Well I guess I thought it went without saying to replace Olofsson and Jost. Those two and Okposo are who I wanted replaced with any of Sundqvist, Bjugstad, or Hathaway. But yes, that's all part of becoming a harder team to play against. To me though, a HC has a big part in that. I don't know why Granato can't be harder on the team than he has been. Why can't he come out and say what Cozens did? Why can't Granato be harsh in practice and public after about what the problems are? It's because he isn't that guy, and this team needs that guy. All these guys that are too small to be physical can still put the effort in to play hard and tenacious. Benson is exhibit A. Mitts is exhibit B, Clifton is exhibit C. There's room to improve, to play harder and more intensely than they have, even though they can't physically reach the level of the players KA should be adding to the roster. If Granato (and staff) can't get that out of these guys, then what's he going to get out of others? I figure it will be much the same.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Sounds like an argument for bringing a Krueger-style coach back. I’m not sure I buy it.

Playing more like Carolina sounds like Krueger to you...???

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

No, it is not Bryson or Clague vs EJ or Clifton.

The league changed.

We are seeing the team have trouble taking the blueline whether Dahlin and Power are out there or if it is Clifton or Johnson.

Last year, teams were still emulating the 20 & 21 Bolts and the 22 Avs. A large number of teams were running spread forechecks. Speed and pressure were the winning recipe.

Last season, most coaches realized that you can't compete with the top teams playing that style. Systems have adjusted. There is way more stacked forechecking this season. Teams are sitting on their bluelines and clogging the neutral zone. Scoring is down for 80+ percent of teams. A lot of teams are back playing 1-3-1, and unless you have elite talent to break that system, it is tough sledding. The Sabres do not have the talent level currently to out-skate a defensive system, and those stretch passes just are not there against defensively responsible teams playing defensive systems.

I will add that the 1-3-1 is not really all that new. I believe Tampa themselves employed it a few years back remembering that the Flyers refused to move the puck out of their own zone in protest.

Yes, more teams have adopted it but a lot of successful teams are still stacking their 2-1-2 forecheck. Which also gives the Sabres D fits. This team still has problems breaking out of its own zone and wilts under a forecheck. Last night under the pressure brought by Carolina, they reverted back to keeping one fwd up in the NZ for a stretch pass. Which was consistently intercepted by the Canes and was quickly transitioned.

The Sabres attempted a laughable parody of the 1-3-1 themselves last night with the result that the Canes (Burns?) skated right through them into the offensive zone and scored a goal because of defensive miscues (created a 2 on 1) and unacceptable gap management by the forwards. Inept instruction AND execution.

The Sabres simply won't contest for space in the offensive zone. Their PP is stagnant with near zero movement. They are easy to defend against because they are completely exposed and prescripted.

Lopsided defeats at the hands of the Bruins, Pens and Devils are representative .

Detroit is 100% making the playoffs. They’re one of the more consistent teams in the east.

And they revamped their roster......

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

KA and Granato were fine for awhile, and thier initial plan was working for awhile. However, where its really started falling apart was a year ago offseason when we failed to address the team needs, going into the season without addressing goaltending, or defense. They said they needed more development time. Then it really came off the rails for me whne they failed to realize the rebuild and development were ahead of schedule, and they had an oportunity mid season to make a few trades to fill in holes and make the playoffs. (Not talking about rentals).

Then this off season they once again failed to fill in the holes, and let pass an opportunity to rebuild the bottom 6. They let Peca, the one real two way grit coach in our system go, instead of elevating him to the big club where he could work with Mitts, Cozens, Tage, and our penalty kill. It is clear to me that neither the Management nor coaching staff knows what to do next. There plan got ahead of them and now they are behind the eight ball.

There is time to fix it, but it will take an aggressive plan that they start implementing tomorrow. That scares me as I do not trust them to do it right.

Letting Peca go was a bonehead move.

 

[Mattilaus]

I will add that the 1-3-1 is not really all that new. I believe Tampa themselves employed it a few years back remembering that the Flyers refused to move the puck out of their own zone in protest.

If I remember correctly, the team playing the trap was down in the game as well which made the whole thing even more odd. Most teams won't play the trap when they are losing.

 

[Tatanka]

Well I guess I thought it went without saying to replace Olofsson and Jost. Those two and Okposo are who I wanted replaced with any of Sundqvist, Bjugstad, or Hathaway. But yes, that's all part of becoming a harder team to play against. To me though, a HC has a big part in that. I don't know why Granato can't be harder on the team than he has been. Why can't he come out and say what Cozens did? Why can't Granato be harsh in practice and public after about what the problems are? It's because he isn't that guy, and this team needs that guy. All these guys that are too small to be physical can still put the effort in to play hard and tenacious. Benson is exhibit A. Mitts is exhibit B, Clifton is exhibit C. There's room to improve, to play harder and more intensely than they have, even though they can't physically reach the level of the players KA should be adding to the roster. If Granato (and staff) can't get that out of these guys, then what's he going to get out of others? I figure it will be much the same.

The first part is the problem. Yes replace VO etc. but a coach doesn’t have the ability to do that. He can only determine how much each plays. Him telling x to play harder falls on deaf ears if he can’t replace their time with someone else. You can’t roll 2 lines. Public chastising isn’t going to work in a world of guaranteed contracts. Unless the gm is willing to move them.

The philosophy of just adding skill without thinking about physicality and discipline, leaves a huge hole in the bottom 6. And you don’t have the opportunity to reward that type of play if you are not willing or can’t penalize the top line players.

Last night during the 5/3 Tuch coasted for 20 seconds floating around the perimeter passing back and forth to the point. At no time did he look to drive to the box or get the puck to the low man or bumper. He does this more often than most like to admit. But I would have stapled him to the bench for awhile. But who takesnhis place? That is as big an issue as the coach saying play harder.

 

[StrompTroller]

If I remember correctly, the team playing the trap was down in the game as well which made the whole thing even more odd. Most teams won't play the trap when they are losing.

Tampa started the game that way. the exchanged latest several periods. there were goals in between but the game literally started with Tampa employing it and the Flyers not giving into it

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

The first part is the problem. Yes replace VO etc. but a coach doesn’t have the ability to do that. He can only determine how much each plays. Him telling x to play harder falls on deaf ears if he can’t replace their time with someone else. You can’t roll 2 lines. Public chastising isn’t going to work in a world of guaranteed contracts. Unless the gm is willing to move them.

The philosophy of just adding skill without thinking about physicality and discipline, leaves a huge hole in the bottom 6. And you don’t have the opportunity to reward that type of play if you are not willing or can’t penalize the top line players.

Last night during the 5/3 Tuch coasted for 20 seconds floating around the perimeter passing back and forth to the point. At no time did he look to drive to the box or get the puck to the low man or bumper. He does this more often than most like to admit. But I would have stapled him to the bench for awhile. But who takesnhis place? That is as big an issue as the coach saying play harder.

I agree to some extent. There is a bit of "chicken and egg" to this. Granato should have different guys to turn toward. I also think he's getting very little out of what he has. Tuch, Skinner, Cozens, Power, Samuelsson are guys that should be here, and should be better. That's not KA's fault. When there is poor play from both guys that should be here and ones that shouldn't, the common denominator is Granato.

 

[Tatanka]

I agree to some extent. There is a bit of "chicken and egg" to this. Granato should have different guys to turn toward. I also think he's getting very little out of what he has. Tuch, Skinner, Cozens, Power, Samuelsson are guys that should be here, and should be better. That's not KA's fault. When there is poor play from both guys that should be here and ones that shouldn't, the common denominator is Granato.

I guess we see it from different pov. If the roster isn’t constructed where the coach has flexibility to match up or reward the style needed, there is not much he can do.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I guess we see it from different pov. If the roster isn’t constructed where the coach has flexibility to match up or reward the style needed, there is not much he can do.

The best roster is still going to have only a couple guys to sit on a regular basis. Ice time can be issued differently of course. I still see this team come out flat, no intensity across the board, no in-game adjustments, no time-outs when they get behind early, terrible line changes. That's all HC stuff that a GM can't control.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

And they revamped their roster......

Actually they revamped it twice. Two consecutive offseasons with major changes for them.

 

[BFLO]

Is anyone excited to watch the game tonight?

 

[OkimLom]

Is anyone excited to watch the game tonight?

Excited, no. But happy hockey is on.