Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Chainshot]

If the effort isn't there on the ice, if the team is a mess and there is no discernable system being used and you keep Granato would you expect that to change the next year and if it doesn't then what?


The Philly game was a perfect example of that. Torts completely outcoached Granato to the point of frustration from the fans. One of the toughest games to watch to the end.

I hate to harp on Granato but where are the adjustments and matchups in those situations?

Torts completely neutered this team and was probably the worst loss of the season.

If any teams wants to beat Buffalo just watch that philly game.

Also have a feeling Clifton and EJ are completely wrong for this team and system being deployed but I applaud Adams for trying.

It was the same thing with how they played the Flyers last season. That wasn't new.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Peterka goes to the front. He scored vs the Blues from there. His goal vs Rags was from the inner hash. You have decided he and VO are equivalents and I do not think the facts bear that out. VO i agree is much more of a perimeter player.

Peterka is not a problem. The Sabres PP set up is the problem because it requires JJ will be in position in the face off circle. That COACHING keeps the puck outside and players on the perimeter way too much/long.

 

[Irie]

The breakout passes, stretch pass and quick turnarounds off of turnovers we saw last year just isn't wasn't happening this year.

What changed? Coaching? Is it possible Johnson and Clifton are killing our transition game? Give Bryson credit, last year his first passes were stretch passes hitting the player in stride. Never see Clifton or EK doing it.

No, it is not Bryson or Clague vs EJ or Clifton.

The league changed.

We are seeing the team have trouble taking the blueline whether Dahlin and Power are out there or if it is Clifton or Johnson.

Last year, teams were still emulating the 20 & 21 Bolts and the 22 Avs. A large number of teams were running spread forechecks. Speed and pressure were the winning recipe.

Last season, most coaches realized that you can't compete with the top teams playing that style. Systems have adjusted. There is way more stacked forechecking this season. Teams are sitting on their bluelines and clogging the neutral zone. Scoring is down for 80+ percent of teams. A lot of teams are back playing 1-3-1, and unless you have elite talent to break that system, it is tough sledding. The Sabres do not have the talent level currently to out-skate a defensive system, and those stretch passes just are not there against defensively responsible teams playing defensive systems.

 

[toddkaz]

No, it is not Bryson or Clague vs EJ or Clifton.

The league changed.

We are seeing the team have trouble taking the blueline whether Dahlin and Power are out there or if it is Clifton or Johnson.

Last year, teams were still emulating the 20 & 21 Bolts and the 22 Avs. A large number of teams were running spread forechecks. Speed and pressure were the winning recipe.

Last season, most coaches realized that you can't compete with the top teams playing that style. Systems have adjusted. There is way more stacked forechecking this season. Teams are sitting on their bluelines and clogging the neutral zone. Scoring is down for 80+ percent of teams. A lot of teams are back playing 1-3-1, and unless you have elite talent to break that system, it is tough sledding. The Sabres do not have the talent level currently to out-skate a defensive system, and those stretch passes just are not there against defensively responsible teams playing defensive systems.

Clague??? LOL

 

[Irie]

Clague??? LOL

Yes, clague, you know, the defenseman that often paired with Bryson in the first quarter of last season?

 

[toddkaz]

Yes, clague, you know, the defenseman that often paired with Bryson in the first quarter of last season?

I never mentioned Clague and Bryson played the year before too without Clague.

If your are going to quote me then don't add stuff I never said. Its bizarre considering you tried to make it sound like I was talking about Clague or making it a competition. Quite frankly I find your whole post out of touch since you seem to blame the NHL for the sabres woes.

"The league changed"

Hard to take this seriously. You are right, its not Granato or the sabres fault they can't make a stretch pass.

 

[SundherDome]

Tage played most of the year for us and his numbers regressed and Quinn wasn’t even a .5ppg.

Missed the joke

 

[Irie]

I never mentioned Clague and Bryson played the year before too without Clague.

If your are going to quote me then don't add stuff I never said. Its bizarre considering you tried to make it sound like I was talking about Clague or making it a competition. Quite frankly I find your whole post out of touch since you seem to blame the NHL for the sabres woes.

"The league changed"

Hard to take this seriously. You are right, its not Granato or the sabres fault they can't make a stretch pass.

Well since your exact words were:

The breakout passes, stretch pass and quick turnarounds off of turnovers we saw last year just isn't wasn't happening this year.

I drew the comparison between Clifton and EJ to start this season to Bryson and Clague last season.

If you want to compare Bryson when paired with Power or Lyubushkin, it is honestly all the same.

The point is still, "No, the reason the transition game is not working as well this year is not because Jacob Bryson is not on the ice".

You don't have to take my post seriously. You asked a question, and I gave you an explanation. Last year when the the defensemen made D to D passes and then turned up ice, there were wide open lanes when they were able to beat the spread forecheck. This year, when a D turns up ice against the majority of teams running stacked formations, there are zero stretch passes available because the opposition D is stacking their blueline, and the Sabres forwards are skating into 4 defenders.

Teams are not playing the same, so the transition opportunities that were there for the taking last season no longer are. The teams that are finding success transitioning through the neutral zone are doing so because they have adjusted. The Sabres have not.

I never said it was not Granato's fault. The Sabres are trying to transition up ice the same way they did last season against a different league this season. It is not that guys can't make those passes, it is that the lanes are not there this year.

 

[sabremike]

My thoughts on the roster:

 

[pigpen65]

I think the Sabres need a legit starting goalie, a top 4 defenseman, and some toughness

 

[sabremike]

So the plan is to have a team full of kids who get their heads kicked in on a near nightly basis led by an inexperienced beleaguered and hapless coaching staff and somehow this will magically lead to development.

 

[Ace]

We’ve acquired two NHL players via trade since the Eichel move under Adams

Greenway
and Stillman…who is in the AHL.

That is the complete list of trades made for the NHL roster in the last 25 months

That is the level of give a f*** this front office has

 

[HaNotsri]

I never mentioned Clague and Bryson played the year before too without Clague.

If your are going to quote me then don't add stuff I never said. Its bizarre considering you tried to make it sound like I was talking about Clague or making it a competition. Quite frankly I find your whole post out of touch since you seem to blame the NHL for the sabres woes.

"The league changed"

Hard to take this seriously. You are right, its not Granato or the sabres fault they can't make a stretch pass.

But the league actually changed and especially our conference. Teams improved. Successful teams will always be mimicked and then you will have teams becomings successful by countering that. When some team went heavy and big you had other go fast and then you have teams that can bring those speedy teams down, minimize mistakes and play like a meat grinder. Then we might be back to heavy teams again because they can crush the 1-3-1 teams. My description is very simplified but you often see good teams becoming archetypes. Someone finds something that works well and then others copy it.

On top of that the eastern conference is stacked right now. The Penguins added Karlsson and is not much better than last season compared to the conference but I still think they improved - other teams improved more.

I think our slow way of building a team is flawed since we will always be a step or two behind the winning teams. I don't see us getting ahead and becoming that archetype quality-team unless it's a tortoise vs. hare situation, but how do we get the whole league to take a nap?

 

[toddkaz]

But the league actually changed and especially our conference. Teams improved. Successful teams will always be mimicked and then you will have teams becomings successful by countering that. When some team went heavy and big you had other go fast and then you have teams that can bring those speedy teams down, minimize mistakes and play like a meat grinder. Then we might be back to heavy teams again because they can crush the 1-3-1 teams. My description is very simplified but you often see good teams becoming archetypes. Someone finds something that works well and then others copy it.

On top of that the eastern conference is stacked right now. The Penguins added Karlsson and is not much better than last season compared to the conference but I still think they improved - other teams improved more.

I think our slow way of building a team is flawed since we will always be a step or two behind the winning teams. I don't see us getting ahead and becoming that archetype quality-team unless it's a tortoise vs. hare situation, but how do we get the whole league to take a nap?

Thats not the league changing thats teams changing and tthe Eastern Conference has always been stacked thats not changed either.

Teams are constantly adjusting and modifying their rosters. Its Adams who didn't keep up

 

[debaser66]

My thoughts on the roster:
View attachment 777040

who took that photo of me in the morning?

 

[HaNotsri]

Thats not the league changing thats teams changing and tthe Eastern Conference has always been stacked thats not changed either.

Teams are constantly adjusting and modifying their rosters. Its Adams who didn't keep up

It doesn't take away the fact that the league changed while Adams didn't keep up.
It's not exactly the same thing but imagine trying to gain market shares at work when management keeps doing nothing to facilitate change and improvement except waiting for staff to magically solve every problem. Granato is essentially a poor middle manager with no resources in this scenario.

Adams needs to start making moves to keep up. Sometimes you make the wrong move and make things worse but giving up some futures to improve now would also likely rise the stock of the prospects we keep so I don't get what he's afraid of. We have more to win than to lose.
You rarely see adding quality players to a roster backfire unless it's dumb UFA signings.

I guess we agree and this is all really semantics. The current situation just highlights the weakness of the "sitting on your ass" strategy. It's like Adams doesn't grasp that he's squandering resources by sub-optimizing the roster.

I think Yzerman made some weird moves but all in all it looks like he managed to put an actual team together, even though I think they are overperforming a bit.

Why are we always going from different extremes? Super conservative Krueger to Gung ho Granato. Manic Murray, RHD-collector Botterill and then Sleepy Adams.

I wish the Sabres had a mediocre, standard and boring approach to roster management.

 

[dortt]

It doesn't take away the fact that the league changed while Adams didn't keep up.
It's not exactly the same thing but imagine trying to gain market shares at work when management keeps doing nothing to facilitate change and improvement except waiting for staff to magically solve every problem. Granato is essentially a poor middle manager with no resources in this scenario.

Adams needs to start making moves to keep up. Sometimes you make the wrong move and make things worse but giving up some futures to improve now would also likely rise the stock of the prospects we keep so I don't get what he's afraid of. We have more to win than to lose.
You rarely see adding quality players to a roster backfire unless it's dumb UFA signings.

I guess we agree and this is all really semantics. The current situation just highlights the weakness of the "sitting on your ass" strategy. It's like Adams doesn't grasp that he's squandering resources by sub-optimizing the roster.

I think Yzerman made some weird moves but all in all it looks like he managed to put an actual team together, even though I think they are overperforming a bit.

Why are we always going from different extremes? Super conservative Krueger to Gung ho Granato. Manic Murray, RHD-collector Botterill and then Sleepy Adams.

I wish the Sabres had a mediocre, standard and boring approach to roster management.

sounds like we never should have fired Darcy

 

[toddkaz]

It doesn't take away the fact that the league changed while Adams didn't keep up.
It's not exactly the same thing but imagine trying to gain market shares at work when management keeps doing nothing to facilitate change and improvement except waiting for staff to magically solve every problem. Granato is essentially a poor middle manager with no resources in this scenario.

Adams needs to start making moves to keep up. Sometimes you make the wrong move and make things worse but giving up some futures to improve now would also likely rise the stock of the prospects we keep so I don't get what he's afraid of. We have more to win than to lose.
You rarely see adding quality players to a roster backfire unless it's dumb UFA signings.

I guess we agree and this is all really semantics. The current situation just highlights the weakness of the "sitting on your ass" strategy. It's like Adams doesn't grasp that he's squandering resources by sub-optimizing the roster.

I think Yzerman made some weird moves but all in all it looks like he managed to put an actual team together, even though I think they are overperforming a bit.

Why are we always going from different extremes? Super conservative Krueger to Gung ho Granato. Manic Murray, RHD-collector Botterill and then Sleepy Adams.

I wish the Sabres had a mediocre, standard and boring approach to roster management.

You keep saying league but the league doesn't change teams do. Some teams get better and some teams get worse. Its been a constant adaptation since free agency.

Sometimes we only play certain teams 2 times a year so what matters is to keep up with the teams in our division which hasn't been done.

 

[Irie]

You keep saying league but the league doesn't change teams do. Some teams get better and some teams get worse. Its been a constant adaptation since free agency.

Scoring goes up league wide over periods of time and scoring goes down league wide over periods of time. That is not every team getting better and then every team getting worse. It is the league evolving.

The style the teams play changes. It is a copycat league, and when all the teams in the league change their systems and play styles, the hockey of the league changes. Spinning semantics doesn't make that untrue.

 

[BFLO]

Has a GM ever failed to make the playoffs his first 4 years and gone on to get a 5th year? Were those hypothetical GMs successful at making the playoffs in their 5th season and beyond? Yzerman is in his 5th season with Detroit, so I guess we'll see if they make it.

Has a coach ever failed to make the playoffs his first 3 seasons and gone on to get a 4th? Were those hypothetical coaches successful in their 4th season at making the playoffs and beyond?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

And guess who is one of the few players that’s been offensively decisive and getting inside nearly all year? Peterka

Not from my perspective. Most of JJ’s shot BY FAR are low danger ones. He’s just as guilty as anyone else of playing lazy hockey.

Tuch and Cozens are the only ones remotely trying to get inside on a regular basis.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I can't blame KA as much. This team under Granato is not even playing the way they should in order to beat the trap style they see most nights. If they were at least trying and failing I would expect more from KA. I see a lot of panic in the D-zone and getting caved in. I see unforced errors in the neutral zone and constant TOs on O-zone entries. Even when dumping/chipping, the other FWs are not on the same page and going into the O-zone with speed. Opponents easily clear because there is no FW in sight when they get the puck.

So if this team played anything like they way they should, we could start blaming KA more if they fail. They should be playing more like Carolina, pressuring the puck with their young skating legs, forcing TOs in the neutral zone or by standing up at their own blueline. Then they would get those precious transition chances that would maximize their offensive talent. Instead they are doing a really bad impression of passive D-zone play, and forcing an offensive game that won't work. That's ENTIRELY on Granato.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Has a GM ever failed to make the playoffs his first 4 years and gone on to get a 5th year? Were those hypothetical GMs successful at making the playoffs in their 5th season and beyond? Yzerman is in his 5th season with Detroit, so I guess we'll see if they make it.

Has a coach ever failed to make the playoffs his first 3 seasons and gone on to get a 4th? Were those hypothetical coaches successful in their 4th season at making the playoffs and beyond?

Detroit is 100% making the playoffs. They’re one of the more consistent teams in the east.

 

[Ace]

I can't blame KA as much. This team under Granato is not even playing the way they should in order to beat the trap style they see most nights. If they were at least trying and failing I would expect more from KA. I see a lot of panic in the D-zone and getting caved in. I see unforced errors in the neutral zone and constant TOs on O-zone entries. Even when dumping/chipping, the other FWs are not on the same page and going into the O-zone with speed. Opponents easily clear because there is no FW in sight when they get the puck.

So if this team played anything like they way they should, we could start blaming KA more if they fail. They should be playing more like Carolina, pressuring the puck with their young skating legs, forcing TOs in the neutral zone or by standing up at their own blueline. Then they would get those precious transition chances that would maximize their offensive talent. Instead they are doing a really bad impression of passive D-zone play, and forcing an offensive game that won't work. That's ENTIRELY on Granato.

And who hired and continues to employ Granato? Who lets him keep his awful assistants with no standard for success to meet? Who gave him these bums that dont compete?

Change the coach. Change the roster. Do something. He’s done all the nothing that can be done.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I can't blame KA as much. This team under Granato is not even playing the way they should in order to beat the trap style they see most nights. If they were at least trying and failing I would expect more from KA. I see a lot of panic in the D-zone and getting caved in. I see unforced errors in the neutral zone and constant TOs on O-zone entries. Even when dumping/chipping, the other FWs are not on the same page and going into the O-zone with speed. Opponents easily clear because there is no FW in sight when they get the puck.

So if this team played anything like they way they should, we could start blaming KA more if they fail. They should be playing more like Carolina, pressuring the puck with their young skating legs, forcing TOs in the neutral zone or by standing up at their own blueline. Then they would get those precious transition chances that would maximize their offensive talent. Instead they are doing a really bad impression of passive D-zone play, and forcing an offensive game that won't work. That's ENTIRELY on Granato.

Spot on.

I also wanna point out- we said we needed goaltending and defense. Ok, well the goalies have been ok and EJ/Clifton haven’t been the issue.

Now people are blaming the forward structure- we gotta rework the top 6 and bottom 6, depending on who you ask.

So we’re lookin at bad goaltending, defense, and forwards, got it.

..maybe at a certain point that’s a coaching concern. When none of them improve, and only actually get worse in the wake of any seeming glimmer of hope.