Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[TageGod]

The #7 guy usually plays about 50 games per season while the #8 plays a couple dozen. They've already put Johnson in over Bryson so it seems they feel he's their best injury replacement option.

Good problem to have. Light years ahead of last year on D. Cozen's sucking and Tuch taking 12 games to play hockey are hurting us.

anyone else think rolling 3 lines against the Wild gassed the Sabres and they had no energy for the Pens? It's almost like they sold out to win the first of the back to back.

 

[JLewyB]

Maybe this family matter explains Krebs performance so far this year if it’s ongoing. Distractions could disproportionately affect his game. He needs to be 100% focused to be effective

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Krebs just isn't that good and will not be a part of the long term core.

 

[HOOats]

VO sits on a bench much of the time, so he wouldn't be replacing him. But that's besides the point -- the main issue is the opportunity cost, not the roster spot. It prevents you from making a move that actually helps. Not sure why this concept is above everyone's heads.

Bringing in Kane is a lazy PR move that will at best help the PP a little bit, when it shouldn't need that much help. Bringing in a PP specialist always has been a dumb move whenever a team has done it over the years --- it never helps any teams who aren't already on top in all of the other categories.

The concept of opportunity cost is certainly not above my head, quite the contrary. Signing Kane doesn't prevent us from making a move "that actually helps." Trade Vic 50% retained for a 7th, sign Kane for $3M for a year, plenty of room/assets for other moves in our bottom 6. We aren't making a splash trade for a top 6 guy that requires us to have $8M in space. That's just not in the cards with our future plans.

Now if by opportunity cost you're just projecting that Adams only has a single move in the chamber and is unable/unwilling to do anything more than that, then sure I may not want to use it on Kane. But I don't take his cautious approach thus far to be a forever quality, more a product of where we have been in the build until now. I think he's willing to make more moves as the team warrants it and this may be the beginning of that. Also, there have been like two trades in the league this season, he isn't exactly an outlier at the moment.

I call BS on it being a "lazy PR move." That itself is a lazy rhetorical jab just used to reinforce skepticism of the move. I understand the rational points re: the potential downside of Kane without needing the conspiratorial take that an extra $30k at the gate matters.

Bottom line for me: one of the BEST PLAYERS OF ALL-TIME (who is bad at defense, but not nearly as fried as people are making him out to be) is available for a no-asset acquisition. It would be mismanagement to not kick the tires. Those with a negative opinion of the move aren't letting themselves consider how incredible it would be if it works out, while I am fully cognizant of how frustrating it would be if it doesn't.

 

[joshjull]

I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest that Johnson might be a better option than some of his veteran peers based solely on the small sample we’ve seen. Being surprised that NHL teams do business differently is a bit much though

They suggested more than that.

They want R.Johnson to stay in the lineup and be paired with Dahlin. Their rationale, as I understand it, is he “unlocks“ something in Dahlin and is better with him than Sammy is. They suggest E.Johnson sits.

The impact of their suggestion is two fold.

1) All 3 d-pairings have to be changed.

2) Sit PK workhorse PK E.Johnson (4:15mins atoi). He and Sammy (3:45mins) have been our Pk anchors playing 2mins or so a night more than the next dmen. It’s also allowed us to keep Dahlin’s PKing ice time to a minimum.

Suggesting all this change to the defense/PK based on a few games played by R.Johnson is kind of crazy.

EDIT: Something like sitting Clifton for him is what I think you’re referring to. 1 for 1 swap with only the bottom pair impacted.

 

[joshjull]

The concept of opportunity cost is certainly not above my head, quite the contrary. Signing Kane doesn't prevent us from making a move "that actually helps." Trade Vic 50% retained for a 7th, sign Kane for $3M for a year, plenty of room/assets for other moves in our bottom 6. We aren't making a splash trade for a top 6 guy that requires us to have $8M in space. That's just not in the cards with our future plans.

Now if by opportunity cost you're just projecting that Adams only has a single move in the chamber and is unable/unwilling to do anything more than that, then sure I may not want to use it on Kane. But I don't take his cautious approach thus far to be a forever quality, more a product of where we have been in the build until now. I think he's willing to make more moves as the team warrants it and this may be the beginning of that. Also, there have been like two trades in the league this season, he isn't exactly an outlier at the moment.

I call BS on it being a "lazy PR move." That itself is a lazy rhetorical jab just used to reinforce skepticism of the move. I understand the rational points re: the potential downside of Kane without needing the conspiratorial take that an extra $30k at the gate matters.

Bottom line for me: one of the BEST PLAYERS OF ALL-TIME (who is bad at defense, but not nearly as fried as people are making him out to be) is available for a no-asset acquisition. It would be mismanagement to not kick the tires. Those with a negative opinion of the move aren't letting themselves consider how incredible it would be if it works out, while I am fully cognizant of how frustrating it would be if it doesn't.

People are suggesting he’s fried because no player has ever been able to successfully return from the surgery he had.

If he hadn’t had that surgery. I don’t think myself and some others would care all that much about signing him one way or the other.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

Some big “IFs” here…..

If they sign Kane,

And

If they make the playoffs…..

I’m betting Kane’s above a ppg in the playoffs. He’s still from Buffalo, and knows what winning would mean to Buffalo.

If you sign him, you better go get that defensive center immediately and really tell all us Sabre fans were in it to win now.

 

[HOOats]

People are suggesting he’s fried because no player has ever been able to successfully return from the surgery he had.

If he hadn’t had that surgery. I don’t think myself and some others would care all that much about signing him or not.

Understood. I'm curious about the hip resurfacing, if you or anyone else knows. Is the resurfacing what kills guys, or is it the underlying hip issue that the resurfacing is attempting to correct and fails? The latter would be my guess.

Listening to ATW right now and Vanek referenced Sam Gagner as having recently returned from double resurfacing and looking good.

 

[Mattilaus]

Understood. I'm curious about the hip resurfacing, if you or anyone else knows. Is the resurfacing what kills guys, or is it the underlying hip issue that the resurfacing is attempting to correct and fails? The latter would be my guess.

Listening to ATW right now and Vanek referenced Sam Gagner as having recently returned from double resurfacing and looking good.

If this is the case your guess is that almost every single time this hip surgery is tried, it fails? If thats the case why do they keep performing it?

 

[joshjull]

I see Dom and friends are in full attack/tantrum mode about Sammy with Dahlin.

 

[joshjull]

Understood. I'm curious about the hip resurfacing, if you or anyone else knows. Is the resurfacing what kills guys, or is it the underlying hip issue that the resurfacing is attempting to correct and fails? The latter would be my guess.

Listening to ATW right now and Vanek referenced Sam Gagner as having recently returned from double resurfacing and looking good.

Thats a great question.

But I don’t know the answer.

 

[joshjull]

If this is the case your guess is that almost every single time this hip surgery is tried, it fails? If thats the case why do they keep performing it?

Fails to get them back to being a pro hockey player. That doesn’t make the procedure itself a failure.

I imagine this procedure is a last resort for NHL players. They end up needing it due to pain and reduction in overall functionality of the joint. Things that are impacting their daily life.

 

[HOOats]

If this is the case your guess is that almost every single time this hip surgery is tried, it fails? If thats the case why do they keep performing it?

Because it works sometimes, say 10-20%? And the reward for it working is the opportunity to continue to make millions of dollars per year?

Edit: I see what you mean, but I think it's a matter of worse and maybe less worse.

 

[Mattilaus]

Because it works sometimes, say 10-20%? And the reward for it working is the opportunity to continue to make millions of dollars per year?

Edit: I see what you mean, but I think it's a matter of worse and maybe less worse.

Someone needs to do an article and get some insight from athletes who have had it and doctors.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The concept of opportunity cost is certainly not above my head, quite the contrary. Signing Kane doesn't prevent us from making a move "that actually helps." Trade Vic 50% retained for a 7th, sign Kane for $3M for a year, plenty of room/assets for other moves in our bottom 6. We aren't making a splash trade for a top 6 guy that requires us to have $8M in space. That's just not in the cards with our future plans.

Now if by opportunity cost you're just projecting that Adams only has a single move in the chamber and is unable/unwilling to do anything more than that, then sure I may not want to use it on Kane. But I don't take his cautious approach thus far to be a forever quality, more a product of where we have been in the build until now. I think he's willing to make more moves as the team warrants it and this may be the beginning of that. Also, there have been like two trades in the league this season, he isn't exactly an outlier at the moment.

I call BS on it being a "lazy PR move." That itself is a lazy rhetorical jab just used to reinforce skepticism of the move. I understand the rational points re: the potential downside of Kane without needing the conspiratorial take that an extra $30k at the gate matters.

Bottom line for me: one of the BEST PLAYERS OF ALL-TIME (who is bad at defense, but not nearly as fried as people are making him out to be) is available for a no-asset acquisition. It would be mismanagement to not kick the tires. Those with a negative opinion of the move aren't letting themselves consider how incredible it would be if it works out, while I am fully cognizant of how frustrating it would be if it doesn't.

Yeah it’s easy to create space when you make assumptions that are completely unrealistic, like anyone willing to do us a huge favor by putting Olofsson on their team. After this season, he’ll never sniff an NHL game again.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

They suggested more than that.

They want R.Johnson to stay in the lineup and be paired with Dahlin. Their rationale, as I understand it, is he “unlocks“ something in Dahlin and is better with him than Sammy is. They suggest E.Johnson sits.

The impact of their suggestion is two fold.

1) All 3 d-pairings have to be changed.

2) Sit PK workhorse PK E.Johnson (4:15mins atoi). He and Sammy (3:45mins) have been our Pk anchors playing 2mins or so a night more than the next dmen. It’s also allowed us to keep Dahlin’s PKing ice time to a minimum.

Suggesting all this change to the defense/PK based on a few games played by R.Johnson is kind of crazy.

EDIT: Something like sitting Clifton for him is what I think you’re referring to. 1 for 1 swap with only the bottom pair impacted.

And all of this is based on the “with/without” stats, which so silly since those stats are significantly impacted by usage, and their usage is obviously much different when they’re apart.

 

[Ehran]

Someone needs to do an article and get some insight from athletes who have had it and doctors.

I do believe you're asking / expecting way, way, way too much from our local journalists.

 

[zenthusiast]

They suggested more than that.

They want R.Johnson to stay in the lineup and be paired with Dahlin. Their rationale, as I understand it, is he “unlocks“ something in Dahlin and is better with him than Sammy is. They suggest E.Johnson sits.

The impact of their suggestion is two fold.

1) All 3 d-pairings have to be changed.

2) Sit PK workhorse PK E.Johnson (4:15mins atoi). He and Sammy (3:45mins) have been our Pk anchors playing 2mins or so a night more than the next dmen. It’s also allowed us to keep Dahlin’s PKing ice time to a minimum.

Suggesting all this change to the defense/PK based on a few games played by R.Johnson is kind of crazy.

EDIT: Something like sitting Clifton for him is what I think you’re referring to. 1 for 1 swap with only the bottom pair impacted.

I certainly wouldn’t advocate for sitting EJ but conversely I find nothing so strong about this D’s performance to argue preserving the status quo

 

[Chainshot]

If this is the case your guess is that almost every single time this hip surgery is tried, it fails? If thats the case why do they keep performing it?

Backstrom talked about not being able to bend his leg or play with his children before the procedure. I think that had more to do with it then anything else.

 

[Irie]

This is likely going to be a very unpopular take. But I would rather move Cozens than Mitts in that scenario. Not that I think Cozens is a dud. But Mitts game right now is as good as we had ever hoped for with DC. It isn't like Mitts is this 28 year old who finally figured it out. He is 24 to Cozens 22.

Trading Mitts and continuing to hope Cozens becomes Mitts is a gamble that the roster has no reason to make. Thompson/Mitts is about as good as most teams would hope for out of a 1a/1b center pairing. For Cozens to break into that mix he would have to firmly be a top 10 center in the league.

The roster needs more players that are really good today, not more players that could be good tomorrow. We have 100 prospects all over the world that might be good someday. At some point we have to put together a team that can win in the NHL in the here and now.

I am not advocating we trade Cozens. I am certainly not giving up on him. But if you are going to be dangling the idea of Mitts being a trade prospect, I would actually prefer we trade Cozens.

Hopefully they aren't trading either.

Mitts will be 25 this week, Cozens was always bound to have some growing pains, and we all have to remember that he is still just a kid.

We should all think back to what Casey was at 22 to get some perspective

 

[Dirty Dog]

Why is this board so obsessed with rolling out 12 rookies playing? So tired of the rookies blocked angle. Getting Kane isn't blocking the rookies, resigning Okposo and Giregensons is.

I wish Adams would start packaging our rookies up and start trading for players like Tomas Hertl and others who might move, insulate the kids we have with proven pros.

What rookies are being blocked? Or even, what rookies are being forced into the lineup that shouldn’t be there?

 

[Irie]

Bottom line for me: one of the BEST PLAYERS OF ALL-TIME (who is bad at defense, but not nearly as fried as people are making him out to be) is available for a no-asset acquisition. It would be mismanagement to not kick the tires. Those with a negative opinion of the move aren't letting themselves consider how incredible it would be if it works out, while I am fully cognizant of how frustrating it would be if it doesn't.

I don't know...

I watched several Hawks games last year, and it wasn't so much that Kane couldn't defend, it was that there were times where he clearly chose not to defend.

I have a ton of patience for guys making blunders; misplaying pucks leading to bad turnovers or guys trying to make plays and failing badly, but I have zero patience for low effort or not even trying, and I saw a lot of that from Kane in the Neutral zone last season.

Having a player around of his historical caliber leading by poor example does worry me, especially when this team is loaded with young and impressionable players.

I do get the optimism for upside here, but I think there is a lot more risk than potential benefit, strictly from an odds perspective.

 

[Chainshot]

In terms of Ryan Johnson, let's not forget how favorable the initial charts looked for Kale Clague as Power's partner - forgetting they were pushing them up on more offensive than defensive deployments - something over 60%. Taking a quick gander at the tiny sample and I see RJ is also up over 60% (63.16) per NST's 5-on-5. He's still over 60% at all strengths (as is Dahlin FYI) and I see a rather small 1:37 in PK time.

He's looked good in the recall. That's very encouraging. He isn't being asked to do the PK heavy lifting nor is he being used in his own zone in the same way that some of the others are - in particular EJ and Sammy.

Context matters.

 

[zenthusiast]

In terms of Ryan Johnson, let's not forget how favorable the initial charts looked for Kale Clague as Power's partner - forgetting they were pushing them up on more offensive than defensive deployments - something over 60%. Taking a quick gander at the tiny sample and I see RJ is also up over 60% (63.16) per NST's 5-on-5. He's still over 60% at all strengths (as is Dahlin FYI) and I see a rather small 1:37 in PK time.

He's looked good in the recall. That's very encouraging. He isn't being asked to do the PK heavy lifting nor is he being used in his own zone in the same way that some of the others are - in particular EJ and Sammy.

Context matters.

What’s your point? Clague and Stillman are the future.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

What’s your point? Clague and Stillman are the future.

I’m still holding out hope for Sutton, Carney, Haller, Houlder and Boucher