Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Doug Prishpreed]

Use whatever word you want, but to imply that Zack Benson did not earn his roster spot and exceed everyone's reasonable expectations as an 18 year old is just bizarre. If this roster matched his passion and tenacity we'd be gearing up for a playoff series for this first time in 13 years. Zack wasn't a gift, he was a revelation.

My point is, he shouldn’t have had the chance to even make the team when it was already the youngest team in the league by a lot.

He’s probably my second favorite player on the team - but on on a good team, in a well-run organization, he wouldn’t have really had a chance to make the team no matter how promising he was.

 

[OkimLom]

Was Benson gifted a spot this year?

Not going to fault Benson for taking advantage of an opportunity that the organization structured their roster, and lowered the standards to allow him win a spot.

While he showed a fantastic foundation/floor from the start, I didnt think he produced enough offensively to stay up all year round to burn off a year of his ELC in a season they weren’t actively trying for the playoffs. I saw no reason to rush the kid.

 

[slip]

My point is, he shouldn’t have had the chance to even make the team when it was already the youngest team in the league by a lot.

He’s probably my second favorite player on the team - but on on a good team, in a well-run organization, he wouldn’t have really had a chance to make the team no matter how promising he was.

He basically leapfrogged Jost and VO on the depth chart. Yes on a stacked playoff team with quality vets he doesn't get a shot. But on this team he earned his bones and consistently outclassed half of the starting forwards with his rugged, fearless play.

 

[Willgamesh]

Not going to fault Benson for taking advantage of an opportunity that the organization structured their roster, and lowered the standards to allow him win a spot.

While he showed a fantastic foundation/floor from the start, I didnt think he produced enough offensively to stay up all year round to burn off a year of his ELC in a season they weren’t actively trying for the playoffs. I saw no reason to rush the kid.

He's 8th on the team in points. By that logic you want every forward below that off the team?

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Benson is 226th out of 400 forwards ppg (with 40+ games). If he doesn’t deserve to be in the NHL neither does half the league.

Every team has players who’s current contribution they’d trade for him.

 

[OkimLom]

He's 8th on the team in points. By that logic you want every forward below that off the team?

Well, sub par 30 points in 65+ games for veterans, yeah, sure get them off the team.

If I’m burning years off an ELC of a young player, especially one coming off of just being drafted, I’d expect to see him producing closer to a Bedard pace than what Benson achieved. I’d rather spend that time developing his game and skills away from Granato and this coaching staff.

 

[TehDoak]

Whats funny is I think all people are in agreement that Benson was good this year.

The sticking point is 'was him being in the NHL what was best for the team and best for his development'

Given that by keeping him up, we didn't just burn one year of his ELC, but two because next year he is not AHL eligible (and he would have been if he was sent to Junior this year)

Lets look at the two scenarios:

1. What we had, Benson is kept up, plays well, struggles for stretches, but is overall a solid NHL depth winger at the age of 18....team misses the playoffs. He has 2 years left of his ELC contract.

2. Benson is sent back to junior, dominates. Gets a NH: team training program, adds muscle and becomes a top rated prospect.

From this scenario:

A) He goes to the AHL in 2024-25, grows his pro game, more strength and conditioning. Comes to the NHL in 25-26.....and with a slide year, he still has full 3 years left on his ELC in 25-26, ready to step into a top six role.

B) He earns a spot out of camp due to his excellent play, we get stronger, more polished benson, with his ELC starting in 24-25 rather than 22-23.


The ideal there is 2A, gets two extra years of development, grows his game, steps into the NHL ready to contribute in a top six role right away....for 3 years at his ELC rate.

People saying Benson should have gone back to Junior aren't bashing Benson, just would have rather given him more development time and started the ELC when he could have contributed more at the NHL level. The results at the NHL level are the same (we miss the playoffs with or without him), and we get more productive ELC years out of benson.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Whats funny is I think all people are in agreement that Benson was good this year.

The sticking point is 'was him being in the NHL what was best for the team and best for his development'

Given that by keeping him up, we didn't just burn one year of his ELC, but two because next year he is not AHL eligible (and he would have been if he was sent to Junior this year)

Lets look at the two scenarios:

1. What we had, Benson is kept up, plays well, struggles for stretches, but is overall a solid NHL depth winger at the age of 18....team misses the playoffs. He has 2 years left of his ELC contract.

2. Benson is sent back to junior, dominates. Gets a NH: team training program, adds muscle and becomes a top rated prospect.

From this scenario:

A) He goes to the AHL in 2024-25, grows his pro game, more strength and conditioning. Comes to the NHL in 25-26.....and with a slide year, he still has full 3 years left on his ELC in 25-26, ready to step into a top six role.

B) He earns a spot out of camp due to his excellent play, we get stronger, more polished benson, with his ELC starting in 24-25 rather than 22-23.


The ideal there is 2A, gets two extra years of development, grows his game, steps into the NHL ready to contribute in a top six role right away....for 3 years at his ELC rate.

People saying Benson should have gone back to Junior aren't bashing Benson, just would have rather given him more development time and started the ELC when he could have contributed more at the NHL level. The results at the NHL level are the same (we miss the playoffs with or without him), and we get more productive ELC years out of benson.

And focusing more on timing ELC’s for best production, rather than putting someone in the league they belong in, is silly. Benson is NHL ready and this year is great for his development. Not sure why you’re overthinking that

 

[Chainshot]

Well, sub par 30 points in 65+ games for veterans, yeah, sure get them off the team.

If I’m burning years off an ELC of a young player, especially one coming off of just being drafted, I’d expect to see him producing closer to a Bedard pace than what Benson achieved. I’d rather spend that time developing his game and skills away from Granato and this coaching staff.

16th best 18 year old season in terms of total points thus far in the last 15 seasons, similar to guys like Nichushkin, Barkov, Svechnikov, and EKane. It's actually really good.

 

[Willgamesh]

Well, sub par 30 points in 65+ games for veterans, yeah, sure get them off the team.

If I’m burning years off an ELC of a young player, especially one coming off of just being drafted, I’d expect to see him producing closer to a Bedard pace than what Benson achieved. I’d rather spend that time developing his game and skills away from Granato and this coaching staff.

I think him living with Dahlin and getting a full year of nhl experience is invaluable and he was clearly dome with the WHL.

 

[Chainshot]

Benson's rookie season compares well to another puck contesting forward who was an unlikely participant at 18... Ryan O'Reilly. There is a lot of how ROR contests pucks through anticipation, position and stick use that is very much what Benson does on the forecheck. He's that sort of player.

 

[HOOats]

The idea that Benson wouldn't play in the NHL this year and then wouldn't play in the NHL again NEXT YEAR is wacky. Especially after seeing how well he's acquitted himself this year. He's a no-doubt NHL player at present and his IQ is thriving solving problems against the best in the world. It's clearly been excellent for his development, we can see him growing in real time.

Any concerns about wasting his ELC are cancelled out by the savings we're going to get on his second contract. It's going to be based on his production as a burgeoning 18-19-20 year old and should slot in nicely to our escalating salary structure as an affordable 3-4 year deal. And still leave him as an RFA.

The handling of Benson is the last thing to chirp Adams about since there are so many legitimate gripes to make elsewhere.

 

[sabremike]

And focusing more on timing ELC’s for best production, rather than putting someone in the league they belong in, is silly. Benson is NHL ready and this year is great for his development. Not sure why you’re overthinking that

Ironic that the organization (rightly) has been knocked for putting bean counting over doing all they can to ice the best lineup possible and in this case some people are knocking them for doing the opposite.

 

[Irie]

From this scenario:

A) He goes to the AHL in 2024-25, grows his pro game, more strength and conditioning. Comes to the NHL in 25-26.....and with a slide year, he still has full 3 years left on his ELC in 25-26, ready to step into a top six role.

B) He earns a spot out of camp due to his excellent play, we get stronger, more polished benson, with his ELC starting in 24-25 rather than 22-23.


The ideal there is 2A, gets two extra years of development, grows his game, steps into the NHL ready to contribute in a top six role right away....for 3 years at his ELC rate.

People saying Benson should have gone back to Junior aren't bashing Benson, just would have rather given him more development time and started the ELC when he could have contributed more at the NHL level. The results at the NHL level are the same (we miss the playoffs with or without him), and we get more productive ELC years out of benson.

except, and please correct me if I am wrong, I do not believe Benson would be eligible for the AHL in 24-25. It would once again be Wenatchee or the Sabres again next season (stupid CHL rules).

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Ironic that the organization (rightly) has been knocked for putting bean counting over doing all they can to ice the best lineup possible and in this case some people are knocking them for doing the opposite.

When all you've got is an ax everything looks like a grindstone

 

[TehDoak]

except, and please correct me if I am wrong, I do not believe Benson would be eligible for the AHL in 24-25. It would once again be Wenatchee or the Sabres again next season (stupid CHL rules).

The ahl rule is 20 or have 4 years accrued in the Chl. So I believe benson could have gone to the AHL next year if we sent him back this season.

 

[Irie]

The ahl rule is 20 or have 4 years accrued in the Chl. So I believe benson could have gone to the AHL next year if we sent him back this season.

Pretty sure he was a game or two short in his first season to qualify for the 4 years accrued condition, and next year will be his age 19 season.

 

[toddkaz]

 

[VaporTrail]

Does anyone know how many fighting majors we have gotten as a team this year ? I googled it and couldn't find it...TIA.

 

[Chainshot]

Does anyone know how many fighting majors we have gotten as a team this year ? I googled it and couldn't find it...TIA.

Sixteen per hockeyfights.com.

 

[Chainshot]

except, and please correct me if I am wrong, I do not believe Benson would be eligible for the AHL in 24-25. It would once again be Wenatchee or the Sabres again next season (stupid CHL rules).

That is correct. He's a game shy per the rules - the WHL appears to have done that deliberately in '20-'21 just to make sure they don't have to let people go.

 

[joshjull]

Leaving a spot open to a kid who has never played in the NHL is what I call "gifting." I don't care if you think it's silly -- I'm not surprised your making a big issue about which word I use because there is no topic small enough for you to argue ad nauseum. It must be tiring.

Regardless of what word you'd use, it's something no other team would do and is a big reason for the continued failure.

Go back and read my initial post you quoted. If you do, you may start to understand the confusion I’m experiencing with this response. It makes very little sense because in my initial post, I said the following;

“Not interested in holding a spot for one of the kids to make the team. I want experienced players to fill out the starting 12 going into camp. If a kid can force their way onto the roster, great”

So on the topic of leaving a spot open for one of the kids, we’re in 100% agreement. I have no interest in it. Whether I agree with you or not that doing so is “gifting” someone a roster spot is irrelevant to the fact that we’re in agreement we shouldn’t do it.

You don’t seem to know that I agree with you. It’s the only explanation I can come up with for you repeatedly bringing it up when you quote me. It’s also a bit weird for you to accuse me of making a big deal of “gifting” a spot vs “competition”. When you are literally arguing with multiple posters about that topic. Plus , for whatever reason you chose to single me out for a personal attack.

But I’ll embrace the spirit of your accusation that I can debate any topic, no matter how small, ad nauseam. Let’s break down why you’re wrong on a few things with regard to the “competition” vs “gifting” debate.


1) Teams at all levels in the NHL will have players graduate directly to their roster from juniors/AHL/Europe. Many times into spots set aside for them. It’s not remotely unique to the Sabres or just bad teams and has gone on forever. But in recent years its also a tool to help manage the salary cap. Using this tool in and of its self does not make a team bad. So yes, it’s something any other NHL team would do.

2) There are real differences between a few different approaches to filling roster spots and how teams do it with respect to youngsters.

a) Spot is left open on starting 12 for a specific youngster and they graduate directly to the NHL roster. Many would call this gifting a roster spot.

b) Spot is left open in the starting 12. A few youngsters and even a few vets may be battling for that spot. Most would call a battle between 3+ players for 1 spot a competition.

c) Starting 12 is filled out in offseason with experienced vets. This is roughly the group expected to start the season. This set up can have a lot of competition if the vets are just placeholders. But it can go the other way, where who the team starts the season with is just about set in stone entering camp. When it goes this way it’s extremely difficult for youngsters to make the team. I believe this is what we both want to see.



Thank you for your time

I’ll hang up and listen.

 

[Dubi Doo]

16th best 18 year old season in terms of total points thus far in the last 15 seasons, similar to guys like Nichushkin, Barkov, Svechnikov, and EKane. It's actually really good.

That doesn't take into account for his rabid dog instincts and mental game, which are what made him really special this year. I cant remember the last 18 year old Ive seen on he Sabres that played as mature of a game as him. He looked like a savvy vet out there.

 

[paulmm3]

I understand keeping Benson in the NHL this year. Organization's goal is to win the cup but realistic first goal has to be to end that playoff drought. I think management felt he gave the Sabres a better chance to win than whoever would've been playing in his place and I agree with that assessment. And despite another disappointing season, we're only a few games out of the playoffs. Three or four games go a different way this year and we sneak into the 8 seed and we're all talking about how smart they were for keeping Benson up.

 

[Tatanka]

I think after Quinn got injured the first time, Savoie was pegged for a spot. When he got hurt and Benson showed he wasn't overwhelmed he got it. In either event I think the plan was a cheap elc vs a mire expensive veteran in FA.