Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Chainshot]

I still think the Mitts trade was a mistake considering what they have at forward.
Even if Cozens rebounds they are one effective center short.
I would have liked them to sign or trade an effective vet who plays positionally sound, physical game instead of trading for another inexperienced young D who is a puckmover & probably cost them more to resign then if they would have extended Mitts.
Too much money locked up on the same type of D, probably not enough money to fix the C problem.
Am I wrong with my assessment?
What are your thoughts on this?

Yeah, I'm not sure why they seem to be keen on yet another left shot PMD with draft pedigree too. I was hoping for some more robust guys who are slotted in at lower AAV. I look at how Vegas has their defense structured with three effective regulars under $3M AAV or even how Vancouver flipped most of their blueline (four guys) from the trade deadline to yearly in this season without taking on a bundle of cap (3 of them in the $3M-$4M AAV range and QHughes having cut them a great deal at the top of their salary structure).

I don't like that the one mildly good 2-way possession center they had left. I don't see settled offense nor consistent battle to retrieve pucks out of either of their remaining centers which are things I think holds the entire roster back. Tage is not a good defensive player and Cozens has had his head up his ass to start the season trying to score, then had it beaten out of his ass by Hathaway. Jost is the Matt Ellis/Dom Pittis/Don Biggs player and not worth his salary. Girgensons isn't really a center, his best work is done on the wall. And Krebs is... polarizing.

I would like them to overshoot on the idea of a depth center so that if injury happens, they have a better candidate to step in. Adams' comments about sustainability have me worried that they're obsessed with retention of draft picks despite having more prospects than they have development openings for at the AHL level. They are in a prime position to use some picks to make a solid acquisition but I question the types of players this front office has thought fit.

 

[Irie]

I still think the Mitts trade was a mistake considering what they have at forward.
Even if Cozens rebounds they are one effective center short.
I would have liked them to sign or trade an effective vet who plays positionally sound, physical game instead of trading for another inexperienced young D who is a puckmover & probably cost them more to resign then if they would have extended Mitts.
Too much money locked up on the same type of D, probably not enough money to fix the C problem.
Am I wrong with my assessment?
What are your thoughts on this?

Not wrong. You are pretty spot on. The plan seems like not really a plan, but just a collection of random ideas at this point.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

As far as who this board considered as the primary piece at the time, let’s revisit the trade thread:

Confirmed with Link: - [BUF/VGK] Jack Eichel & 3rd-2023(BUF) FOR Peyton Krebs, Alex Tuch, 1st-2022(VGK) & 2nd-2023(VGK)

Edit: Of course conditions...

forums.hfboards.com

Who cares what the most opinionated people on the board thought? They’re wrong every year and can be easily proven so by looking at past comments…yet they’re still as opinionated as ever.

 

[SundherDome]

Fired? By who? Lol

Himself, he is big on accountability

 

[TehDoak]

As far as who this board considered as the primary piece at the time, let’s revisit the trade thread:

Confirmed with Link: - [BUF/VGK] Jack Eichel & 3rd-2023(BUF) FOR Peyton Krebs, Alex Tuch, 1st-2022(VGK) & 2nd-2023(VGK)

Edit: Of course conditions...

forums.hfboards.com

The Eichel trade was a master class in how not to handle an organizational crisis.

But, on the day of the deal finally getting done, the most upsetting thing about that day is they didn't go out and get more immediate help to get to the cap floor but chose to use the LTIR loop hole to spend even less. And they didn't even get compensated for doing so. Really hammered home the "Economic" part of the 3 E's.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I wouldn't be shocked if guys the Sabres were interested in signed elsewhere because the Sabres prospect pipeline is so stacked.

So, I don't view this as a lack of spending that really means anything.

The excuses for Pegula's lack of spending never stop. People need to get their heads out of the sand. How many trade deadlines have the Sabres refused to use cap space to get some spare mid- to late-round picks? Sure, it's minor, but the Pegula theme is becoming clear. In the last two years, Buffalo could have signed guys on one and two-year deals, and it doesn't impact anything. A goalie would have been nice. I can't prove it, but I don't believe the Sabres were ever in on Patrick Kane. I don't believe, for a second, a $4 M x two-year deal doesn't get it done. He got $2.75 M in Detroit and only got a year. Yeah, He wanted to play with DaBrincat. Sure. He gives up $5.25 M to play with him.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

The Eichel trade was a master class in how not to handle an organizational crisis.

But, on the day of the deal finally getting done, the most upsetting thing about that day is they didn't go out and get more immediate help to get to the cap floor but chose to use the LTIR loop hole to spend even less. And they didn't even get compensated for doing so. Really hammered home the "Economic" part of the 3 E's.

Why do you gotta insult Sabres legend Johnny Boychuk?

 

[TageGod]

Why are you defaulting to assuming he's earned anything? That's called gifting. When you've only played in juniors against teenagers, "earning" is being the first call-up after injury

Earning is walking into camp and making Adams and Granato say this guy needs to be on the roster. I do understand if you are saying hey lets add to the roster so we have no space available. I personally only see space for one big add down the middle. If you want a second winger, you will likely lose a current winger and still leaves a spot open.

Was Benson gifted a spot this year?

He was hand delivered a roster spot by the Savoie injury. Otherwise, he would have gone back. So in one sense, yes. He did however earn that 9 game look.

 

[5 Minute Major]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The Sabres have built themselves a wealth of talent.

Unfortunately, it’s a lot of the same type of talent and not team building talent. It reminds me a lot of the Oilers a decade plus ago.

 

[Chainshot]

The excuses for Pegula's lack of spending never stop. People need to get their heads out of the sand. How many trade deadlines have the Sabres refused to use cap space to get some spare mid- to late-round picks? Sure, it's minor, but the Pegula theme is becoming clear. In the last two years, Buffalo could have signed guys on one and two-year deals, and it doesn't impact anything. A goalie would have been nice. I can't prove it, but I don't believe the Sabres were ever in on Patrick Kane. I don't believe, for a second, a $4 M x two-year deal doesn't get it done. He got $2.75 M in Detroit and only got a year. Yeah, He wanted to play with DaBrincat. Sure. He gives up $5.25 M to play with him.

Collegiate UFA are still governed by ELC rules if you want to try and make a point that Terry is cheap it has nothing to do with hunting up collegiate UFA because they would be making the league minimum.

 

[TehDoak]

Collegiate UFA are still governed by ELC rules if you want to try and make a point that Terry is cheap it has nothing to do with hunting up collegiate UFA because they would be making the league minimum.

I mean, there is different ways to structure ELC bonuses, etc.

However, you are correct, its not about money, its about:

1. Opportunity
2. The market.

Our deep prospect pool means its a tough road to the NHL beyond an initial few game stint after signing.

Also, I'm sure riding the bus in Rochester with to hope to be called up to Buffalo doesn't exactly capture the hearts and minds of every kid fresh out of college.

 

[Chainshot]

I mean, there is different ways to structure ELC bonuses, etc.

However, you are correct, its not about money, its about:

1. Opportunity
2. The market.

Our deep prospect pool means its a tough road to the NHL beyond an initial few game stint after signing.

Also, I'm sure riding the bus in Rochester with to hope to be called up to Buffalo doesn't exactly capture the hearts and minds of every kid fresh out of college.

The prospect pool is very much going to push players in opposite directions. San Jose signed Graf because they could roll him out in their NHL lineup without it being an issue. They're in the middle of a rebuild and have a pipeline that is short on skilled forwards. He's about it for these players who have sniffed an NHL game.

 

[RefsIdeas]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The Sabres have built themselves a wealth of talent.

Unfortunately, it’s a lot of the same type of talent and not team building talent. It reminds me a lot of the Oilers a decade plus ago.

I agree with this.

I also think the last thing the Sabres need right now is more 19-21 year olds. Inexperience/youth can only be a crutch for so long. I'd very much like them to trade one or two of Rosen/Kulich/Savoie/Ostlund for some established NHL talent. Otherwise I get the feeling we're just going to continue to be a farm team for the NHL. Some of those guys won't hit their physical prime until they're about 25 - do we really want to wait that long? How many more years of going through growing pains can we endure?

Winning teams don't have close to half their roster be u25.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Chainshot]

I agree with this.

I also think the last thing the Sabres need right now is more 19-21 year olds. Inexperience/youth can only be a crutch for so long. I'd very much like them to trade one or two of Rosen/Kulich/Savoie/Ostlund for some established NHL talent. Otherwise I get the feeling we're just going to continue to be a farm team for the NHL. Some of those guys won't hit their physical prime until they're about 25 - do we really want to wait that long? How many more years of going through growing pains can we endure?

Winning teams don't have close to half their roster be u25.

Yep, they need guys in the 26-29 range who are good pros to move forward. In the meantime, they have too many prospects at certain positions where guys need to play to get experience. Nadeau isn't getting reps at the AHL level because there is no need for a slower, bigger scoring line guy because they already have two of those inside the Amerk lineup so he's working on that down a tier.

 

[TehDoak]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The Sabres have built themselves a wealth of talent.

Unfortunately, it’s a lot of the same type of talent and not team building talent. It reminds me a lot of the Oilers a decade plus ago.

This is very much part of the 'first time GM' issue

On paper, it makes sense, 'BPA by our grading system'

However, if your grading system is skewed towards a certain type of player (and I'd argue that the Sabres system obviously does), you'll end up with a lot of the same type players and obvious gaps in the pipeline. And to be fair, no team has a perfect pipeline, and our prospect pipeline is deep, there are just obvious deficiencies despite a lot of depth.

This doesn't cover anything new, but is bang on.

1. They didn't plan for an obvious scoring regression.
2. Didn't address issues last offseason
3, Time to move on from Granato.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Collegiate UFA are still governed by ELC rules if you want to try and make a point that Terry is cheap it has nothing to do with hunting up collegiate UFA because they would be making the league minimum.

But he doesn't even want to pay that. We have only 42 players under contract right now out of a possible 50 slots. As pointed out, there are ways to structure contracts for college UFAs but it costs real dollars. This is a non-issue mostly because these guys rarely turn out but it all adds up

 

[RefsIdeas]

But he doesn't even want to pay that. We have only 42 players under contract right now out of a possible 50 slots. As pointed out, there are ways to structure contracts for college UFAs but it costs real dollars. This is a non-issue mostly because these guys rarely turn out but it all adds up

You'll find plenty of posts about me complaining about Pegula not spending, but I don't think this is the hill to die on.

We have a pretty loaded prospect pipeline, we're not an attractive college UFA destination at all. We can't even find playing time for recent 2nd round picks at the AHL level - what is the pitch to the college UFA?

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

You'll find plenty of posts about me complaining about Pegula not spending, but I don't think this is the hill to die on.

We have a pretty loaded prospect pipeline, we're not an attractive college UFA destination at all. We can't even find playing time for recent 2nd round picks at the AHL level - what is the pitch to the college UFA?

Not doing that but it's just another example. Albeit minor. Just little cheapness here and there. It's part of the Pegula narrative.

 

[Jim Bob]

Not doing that but it's just another example. Albeit minor. Just little cheapness here and there. It's part of the Pegula narrative.

It's not cheapness if players refuse to sign here due to a lack of opportunity.

 

[Chainshot]

But he doesn't even want to pay that. We have only 42 players under contract right now out of a possible 50 slots. As pointed out, there are ways to structure contracts for college UFAs but it costs real dollars. This is a non-issue mostly because these guys rarely turn out but it all adds up

It still seems like trying to make something up tho be mad about. The Caps have 42 contracts. The Stars, Flames and Hurricane all have 43. Are you implying they are also somehow cheap? There is plenty to be mad at Pegula about without trying to create something that isn’t there.

 

[Gras]

It still seems like trying to make something up tho be mad about. The Caps have 42 contracts. The Stars, Flames and Hurricane all have 43. Are you implying they are also somehow cheap? There is plenty to be mad at Pegula about without trying to create something that isn’t there.

I guess the question is do any of the players on the Reserve list get contracts this summer or not.

Is Poltapovs KHL contract done so he can come over

 

[Fjordy]

I guess the question is do any of the players on the Reserve list get contracts this summer or not.

Is Poltapovs KHL contract done so he can come over

Prokhor have contract for one more season in the KHL.

 

[Chainshot]

I guess the question is do any of the players on the Reserve list get contracts this summer or not.

Is Poltapovs KHL contract done so he can come over

Not many that jump out. I would put Marjala as a possible but they have his rights for one more year. Lindgren is really the only other one, but I'm not particularly high on him.

Prokhor have contract for one more season in the KHL.

Yeah, he's got another year.

 

[OkimLom]

This doesn't cover anything new, but is bang on.

1. They didn't plan for an obvious scoring regression.
2. Didn't address issues last offseason
3, Time to move on from Granato.

1. I don't think they planned for scoring regression, but I also feel that a regression in scoring was not impacting their own internal timeline of development and progression of their organization structure and goals overall. They showed last season that an explosion of offense didn't push them to make any turns from their timeline (not getting pieces to help with a playoff push). A year later, I doubt it does anything going the opposite direction.

2. The only issues they care about is the youth getting playing time. Like they said, they didn't want to block their prospects. There were no issues with the organization.

3. Moving on from Granato doesn't fit their plans currently, why would they move on?