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Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

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Dirty Dog said:
Reinhart was not traded after he broke out. He was very good for the sabres for years. Same with Eichel and ROR (and that was not prime ROR)

Ullmark wasnt even traded


I think you both highlighted the fact the sabres do not trade players right after they broke out. Not to mention how longago all those trades were...
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I gave you the examples that exist, didn't try to prove a point. A fact is that we have traded our best center four times over.

Reinhart clearly reached a new level before the trade. The last stretch of that season was his best performance during his time with the team.
 
HaNotsri said:
I gave you the examples that exist, didn't try to prove a point. A fact is that we have traded our best center four times over.

Reinhart clearly reached a new level before the trade. The last stretch of that season was his best performance during his time with the team.
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Reinhart, Eichel, and ROR are not examples of players traded after they broke out. Come on, it is just absurd.

There's about 100 legitimate things to criticize the sabres for, having a pattern of trading away players once they break out is honestly fictitious.


Also, I have been a huge Mitts defender for years and a huge fan. I really hate to see him go and thought he'd be a perfect 3C. But enough with the he was our best center. He played a good two-way game, but even at his best (this season) with everything going for him, his offensive output is just good but not great. He is not a good goal scorer, and his passing is great but it did not lead to great production. He hustled and played the game the right way, which i think is creating this myth of Casey the Great Two Way Center.

His P/60 is just slightly better than Cozens and Tage this year, who have both struggled with injuries and growing pains. Cozens and Tage have significantly higher ceilings, and them at their best is better than Mitts.

If you want to argue the Sabres keep trading away the wrong players or seemingly don’t have a plan…I don’t think you’ll get much push back
 
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Dirty Dog said:
Reinhart was not traded after he broke out. He was very good for the sabres for years. Same with Eichel and ROR (and that was not prime ROR)

Ullmark wasnt even traded


I think you both highlighted the fact the sabres do not trade players right after they broke out. Not to mention how longago all those trades were...
Click to expand...
Well trading someone away or letting them walk as an RFA/UFA is not very different. The point is that the team has refused to keep some good players when they deserved a raise, regardless of the pinpoint timing of their "breakout". It's you that's maybe nitpicking a bit to ignore the result or debate the exact circumstances.

I don't even want to argue about that stuff because I think we all can agree that this franchise has not made the most of, made happy, and kept some really good players over the last ten years.
 
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Doug Prishpreed said:
With most players, you could pay a team a 1st round pick to take them with retainage, but Skinner sucks an extra amount in his unique desire to only live near where he grew up, even if it means an entire career defined by nothing but losing.

The guy cares about comfort, individual stats, and nothing else. Almost any other player would at least be open to a trade to a team with a cup chance by this point, but not Skinner. And that attitude permeates the locker room and rubs off on other players.

Anyway, with all of the wingers we have in the system, we can easily replace him with a cheaper version and still save cap space. The main hurdle is Pegula, like you mentioned.


The $6.5m dead space is only for one year. In the years that he's 33 and 34 it would only be $2.5m. It really seems like a no-brainer, if not this offseason, then definitely the next one. Even TPegs has to see that.
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Pegula doesn’t even let them retain salary on players being shipped out at this point. He’s literally going to pay less money either way…and won’t pay a f***ing penny. He’d rather get them off the books completely than help the team with a better return…WHILE STILL SAVING HIM MONEY. This is why Granato is coming back. This is why we are sitting in the bottom three in cap usage with zero retention spots. And this is why it is no surprise when the next player needing to be paid gets shown to the door before he has arb rights.

We have spent like a team that is tanking. Actually…the two years before this…we spent less than the teams that were tanking. With our budget coaches and decrepit arena where a tiny group of people have their hands tied and can’t improve the team.

All TPegs sees is opportunities to spend less.
 
Doug Prishpreed said:
Does the Hertl move in Vegas make Roy available in the offseason? He'd be friggin perfect and has no trade protection. Crouse is another one. Time to pull a Tim Murray (or "a Vegas") and go get these types of players, whatever the cost.
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I would love either of those. Can they get the Vegas pro scout who thought so highly of Roy in the first place? Or who on their amateur side found Nic Hague?
 
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Ace said:
I just hope Girgensons is a better GM than Adams when Pegula hands him the job he’s not qualified for either after he retires.

I’d have to think he would be? Because he has seen first hand what a lot of bad GMing looks like.
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What does this have to do with the roster?

C'mon man, at least use the thread about the GM.
 
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truthbluth said:
Keep in mind Skinner's cap hit w/o the buyout would be $9mil. Dead cap is a problem, but the last year of his contract, I'd rather $6.5 dead cap than $9mill invested in 34 year old Jeff Skinner.
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Then buy him out before the last season of his deal. When it would only cost 3.333mil and the dead cap space would be almost 1mil less (5.667mil)
truthbluth said:
As to the $14 mill cost, he's due $10 mill next season anyway.
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That’s not how that works. He gets 10mil to be on the roster and be a 30 goal scorer. There are no additional costs. Whereas buying him out creates a hole in the roster that needs to be filled. I assume you'd also want to use the cap space freed up. So now the total cost of buying him out is closer to 20mil.

Which begs is the question, why would we do this in the first place?

-We’re not up against the cap next season.
-He’s still an 30 goal scorer. Even during this down year he’s still on pace for 30g.
-Every year the cost to buy him out gets cheaper. It’s 8mil in 2025 and 3.333mil in 2026. This offseason is hardly the best time to buy him out.
-He’s well liked by his teammates and isn’t a problem in the locker room.

Normally, when teams do its because the player has dropped off a ton. Or they’re a cancer in the locker room. Or they’re jammed up against the cap and need to free up every penny they can. None of that applies to this situation.


I get if you don’t like Skinner as a player. He frustrating as hell at times and I’m hardly a fanboy. I also wouldn’t care if he was bought out at some point. But this offseason it seems like a ridiculously expensive and unrealistic way to try to “change” things.



truthbluth said:
That NMC is never getting waived, except to go to Toronto who wouldn't take him at 50% retained.
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Thats why I said asking him to waive his NMC would be a mess. Do you really think I don't know this? Or that he would still have 9mil cap hit if he stayed?
 
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joshjull said:
Then buy him out before the last season of his deal. When it would only cost 3.333mil and the dead cap space would be almost 1mil less (5.667mil)

That’s not how that works. He gets 10mil to be on the roster and be a 30 goal scorer. There are no additional costs. Whereas buying him out creates a hole in the roster that needs to be filled. I assume you'd also want to use the cap space freed up. So now the total cost of buying him out is closer to 20mil.

Which begs is the question, why would we do this in the first place?

-We’re not up against the cap next season.
-He’s still an 30 goal scorer. Even during this down year he’s still on pace for 30g.
-Every year the cost to buy him out gets cheaper. It’s 8mil in 2025 and 3.333mil in 2026. This offseason is hardly the best time to buy him out.
-He’s well liked by his teammates and isn’t a problem in the locker room.

Normally, when teams do its because the player has dropped off a ton. Or they’re a cancer in the locker room. Or they’re jammed up against the cap and need to free up every penny they can. None of that applies to this situation.


I get if you don’t like Skinner as a player. He frustrating as hell at times and I’m hardly a fanboy. I also wouldn’t care if he was bought out at some point. But this offseason it seems like a ridiculously expensive and unrealistic way to try to “change” things.




Thats why I said asking him to waive his NMC would be a mess. Do you really think I don't know this? Or that he would still have 9mil cap hit if he stayed?
Click to expand...

Sabres just posted this.

Screenshot_20240309_123502_Instagram.jpg
 
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joshjull said:
Then buy him out before the last season of his deal. When it would only cost 3.333mil and the dead cap space would be almost 1mil less (5.667mil)

That’s not how that works. He gets 10mil to be on the roster and be a 30 goal scorer. There are no additional costs. Whereas buying him out creates a hole in the roster that needs to be filled. I assume you'd also want to use the cap space freed up. So now the total cost of buying him out is closer to 20mil.

Which begs is the question, why would we do this in the first place?

-We’re not up against the cap next season.
-He’s still an 30 goal scorer. Even during this down year he’s still on pace for 30g.
-Every year the cost to buy him out gets cheaper. It’s 8mil in 2025 and 3.333mil in 2026. This offseason is hardly the best time to buy him out.
-He’s well liked by his teammates and isn’t a problem in the locker room.

Normally, when teams do its because the player has dropped off a ton. Or they’re a cancer in the locker room. Or they’re jammed up against the cap and need to free up every penny they can. None of that applies to this situation.


I get if you don’t like Skinner as a player. He frustrating as hell at times and I’m hardly a fanboy. I also wouldn’t care if he was bought out at some point. But this offseason it seems like a ridiculously expensive and unrealistic way to try to “change” things.




Thats why I said asking him to waive his NMC would be a mess. Do you really think I don't know this? Or that he would still have 9mil cap hit if he stayed?
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Why are you so f***ing hostile about this? Trying to fill in for Jamie as the resident board hard ass? Skinner has been a bad player this season. Is he having a down year, or has his 31 year old started to slow home down enough that his famenisnt effective? We don't know, but my ONLY poin is that a buyout isn't inconceivable from either a financial or cap perspective. Jesus.
 
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Chainshot said:
What does this have to do with the roster?

C'mon man, at least use the thread about the GM.
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It is about Girgensons remaining on the roster forever because the owner demands it.

Girgensons continuing tenure in the organization with no end in sight has everything to do with the Sabres roster, how it is put together and why nothing will change.
 
truthbluth said:
Why are you so f***ing hostile about this? Trying to fill in for Jamie as the resident board hard ass? Skinner has been a bad player this season. Is he having a down year, or has his 31 year old started to slow home down enough that his famenisnt effective? We don't know, but my ONLY poin is that a buyout isn't inconceivable from either a financial or cap perspective. Jesus.
Click to expand...

What was so hostile about that post? 😳
 
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Haha man, we feisty here, huh?

Let’s all take a deep breath, scream into the void, and collect ourselves.

Happy to see KO and EJ go. Happy to get an extra pick for a random goalie. Happy we got a player for Mitts if we weren’t gonna resign him and commit.

Don’t need Girgensons here, but don’t mind him for now either. So- Adams did things, one of em a big risk, but shoot- I kinda see the vision here, maybe.

More optimistic than most on how this new squad projects. I still think it’s an indictment of coaching that friggin Philly is above us. You cannot look at those two rosters and say they’re better, and yet… I think we argue about Skinner and others a lot less once that issues is dealt with.
 
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So if next year

Skinner Thompson quinn
Benson cozens tuch
Peterka Krebs savoie
Girgensons xxx greenway

Rousek

Callups Kulich, Rosen.

I would say barring a really strong finish by Krebs we need another strong center and drop Krebs to 4C. I think that's accomplished by moving one of rosen/Kulich/Johnson in a package deal to bring someone back with value as the centerpiece to a trade.

Whatever the best time to buy out Skinner I think it should happen.
 
Team Cozens said:
Do you see Savoie as a center long term?

Benson - Tage - Tuch
Peterka- Cozens - Quinn
Greenway - YYY - Savoie
Girgs - Krebs - ZZZ

XXX- Buy him out.
YYY- Vet center - (Laughton, Couture, TAVARES)
ZZZ - Player with an edge
Is Kulich ready??
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I see Danny Briere. He was a center and a winger at different points.
 
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Dirty Dog said:
Reinhart, Eichel, and ROR are not examples of players traded after they broke out. Come on, it is just absurd.

There's about 100 legitimate things to criticize the sabres for, having a pattern of trading away players once they break out is honestly fictitious.


Also, I have been a huge Mitts defender for years and a huge fan. I really hate to see him go and thought he'd be a perfect 3C. But enough with the he was our best center. He played a good two-way game, but even at his best (this season) with everything going for him, his offensive output is just good but not great. He is not a good goal scorer, and his passing is great but it did not lead to great production. He hustled and played the game the right way, which i think is creating this myth of Casey the Great Two Way Center.

His P/60 is just slightly better than Cozens and Tage this year, who have both struggled with injuries and growing pains. Cozens and Tage have significantly higher ceilings, and them at their best is better than Mitts.

If you want to argue the Sabres keep trading away the wrong players or seemingly don’t have a plan…I don’t think you’ll get much push back
Click to expand...
I wrote that they were in their prime, not that they broke out. Kind of pointless to discuss if you don't bother to read.
 
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