Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Jim Bob]

Speaking of that team, we should give VGK a call about Korczak since they just brought in Hanifin. Rosen for Korczak.

Or Dylan Holloway...

 

[Irie]

Still on his ELC, still giving them quality minutes perhaps ahead of schedule and he has some adaptability in his use on his backhand/offhand side that some of the others haven't had. They don't need to rush him out. Let him keep growing in the bottom pair, gives them some utility for when injuries happen up the lineup too.

Some of the context lost in the D discussion this year is that I think most of us often forget is that Ryan Johnson is a year and a half OLDER than Owen Power.

I see so many people down on Power for not being physical and giving Johnson a pass, when physical play is more often than not a product of age and comes with maturity in defensemen.

 

[Gras]

And the net result would be a swap of Dmen and the loss of Mitts for a future. This is a backward path, not forward, not getting better now.

I guess we keep him and just rotate Joker, RJ, Clifton through the pressbox.

 

[Chainshot]

Some of the context lost in the D discussion this year is that I think most of us often forget is that Ryan Johnson is a year and a half OLDER than Owen Power.

I see so many people down on Power for not being physical and giving Johnson a pass, when physical play is more often than not a product of age and comes with maturity in defensemen.

I don't see RJ being shy at engaging with his check's stick and in battle's around the crease or boards. That's my issue with Power's game - I doubt he will ever be any sort of killer and I'm fine with that if he can learn to at least engage his check in some fashion that denies the guy a free stick.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I really think joker is the odd man out as I don’t see them trading any of Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Byram, Clifton, or Johnson

 

[Jim Bob]

Some of the context lost in the D discussion this year is that I think most of us often forget is that Ryan Johnson is a year and a half OLDER than Owen Power.

I see so many people down on Power for not being physical and giving Johnson a pass, when physical play is more often than not a product of age and comes with maturity in defensemen.

I think that is because Power is 6'6" 221 and RJ is 6'1" 195.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I guess we keep him and just rotate Joker, RJ, Clifton through the pressbox.

Maybe you're missing my point, or ignoring it. If Joker is traded, which at this point seems a reasonable path because of what you just said (too many starters), it's likely to be for a pick/prospect. I don't agree with the overall plan because Joker has improved and I'd rather go without Byram and go after a better vet D-man than EJ/Clifton. Anyway, I expect Joker to go for futures. I would very much hope to be wrong and see KA trade Joker and picks/prospects for a big time C, but how many of us truly expect that type of move???

So my point is that the likely result of a Joker trade (maybe being necessary after the Mitts trade) leaves us worse on the ice, when we should be getting better. Having to cycle through a couple guys in the pressbox when they should be starting is a problem. Swapping out a good two-way C for a pick/prospect is a really big problem.

 

[Irie]

I think that is because Power is 6'6" 221 and RJ is 6'1" 195.

Yes, and that is the entire focus while the reality of the situation is lost due to that context.

6'1" 195 and soft as butter is acceptable because a younger guy is 6'6".

 

[Jim Bob]

Maybe you're missing my point, or ignoring it. If Joker is traded, which at this point seems a reasonable path because of what you just said (too many starters), it's likely to be for a pick/prospect. I don't agree with the overall plan because Joker has improved and I'd rather go without Byram and go after a better vet D-man than EJ/Clifton. Anyway, I expect Joker to go for futures. I would very much hope to be wrong and see KA trade Joker and picks/prospects for a big time C, but how many of us truly expect that type of move???

So my point is that the likely result of a Joker trade (maybe being necessary after the Mitts trade) leaves us worse on the ice, when we should be getting better. Having to cycle through a couple guys in the pressbox when they should be starting is a problem. Swapping out a good two-way C for a pick/prospect is a really big problem.

If they were worried about cap space with Mitts likely wanting a healthy deal as an RFA, I doubt they have a "big time C" on their shopping list this off season.

Yes, and that is the entire focus while the reality of the situation is lost due to that context.

6'1" 195 and soft as butter is acceptable because a younger guy is 6'6".

Like Chain pointed out, RJ is not soft as butter. He's not a killer, but he does play a bit more physical than Power does despite the size difference.

And honestly, you don't need most of your D to be as physical as say Riley Stillman is. But, they do need Power to use his size more often to become better in his own zone.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

If they were worried about cap space with Mitts likely wanting a healthy deal as an RFA, I doubt they have a "big time C" on their shopping list this off season.

I agree, which is a really depressing thought. I'm convinced the Mitts trade was just about staying under an internal budget, because everything KA has talked about the last couple years would scream to re-sign him...(oh, except he played better than we expected and now we don't want to pay him that much).

 

[Beerz]

Yes, and that is the entire focus while the reality of the situation is lost due to that context.

6'1" 195 and soft as butter is acceptable because a younger guy is 6'6".

6'1 195 smart and effective defensively is acceptable.

 

[Irie]

Maybe you're missing my point, or ignoring it. If Joker is traded, which at this point seems a reasonable path because of what you just said (too many starters), it's likely to be for a pick/prospect. I don't agree with the overall plan because Joker has improved and I'd rather go without Byram and go after a better vet D-man than EJ/Clifton. Anyway, I expect Joker to go for futures. I would very much hope to be wrong and see KA trade Joker and picks/prospects for a big time C, but how many of us truly expect that type of move???

So my point is that the likely result of a Joker trade (maybe being necessary after the Mitts trade) leaves us worse on the ice, when we should be getting better. Having to cycle through a couple guys in the pressbox when they should be starting is a problem. Swapping out a good two-way C for a pick/prospect is a really big problem.

Agree, and my concern is that Joker is playing well, but just doesn't have the value because of so many years of being misused by the coaching staffs here. He is definitely worth more on the ice than he is going to return, so that is an immediate loss, not to mention that I think Jokiharju is still from from a finished product, there is more ceiling there and someone may get a steal.

Unfortunately, Joker is not physical enough, so he doesn't bring what this group sorely needs. With Johnson being cheap, and Power having the upside he has, Joker probably is the logical cost-cutting move, but I agree, losing him will make the team worse and the return likely won't address a real need.

The only silver lining is that moving on from Joker could help address the problem of having three too soft defenders in the lineup regularly, so that might be something...

 

[Irie]

I don't see RJ being shy at engaging with his check's stick and in battle's around the crease or boards. That's my issue with Power's game - I doubt he will ever be any sort of killer and I'm fine with that if he can learn to at least engage his check in some fashion that denies the guy a free stick.

Everyone looks at size and expects players to play a certain way, but Power just turned 21 this season. He's just a pup.

He has shown some fire this year (not often, but there have been times where he has not backed down and his pushback was great to see). I think posters are unfairly projecting what the player will be in 4 years based off of misguided perceptions. Most rookie D come into the league between 22 and 24. At that age, they are starting to have physical confidence. Power came in way too early, and just going off of his age, we should not have expected him to be very physical.

And no, I am not saying Owen Power is going to develop into Scott Stevens, but there will be some added physicality to his game as he physically matures and ages, that is almost universal.

 

[Irie]

6'1 195 smart and effective defensively is acceptable.

Agreed, accept when half of your D core shies away from contact, then having a 6'1" 195 that avoids physicality makes your team too easy to play against and is unacceptable.

 

[Chainshot]

Everyone looks at size and expects players to play a certain way, but Power just turned 21 this season. He's just a pup.

He has shown some fire this year (not often, but there have been times where he has not backed down and his pushback was great to see). I think posters are unfairly projecting what the player will be in 4 years based off of misguided perceptions. Most rookie D come into the league between 22 and 24. At that age, they are starting to have physical confidence. Power came in way too early, and just going off of his age, we should not have expected him to be very physical.

And no, I am not saying Owen Power is going to develop into Scott Stevens, but there will be some added physicality to his game as he physically matures and ages, that is almost universal.

I would assume he'll be able to be stout and simply stand his ground more often as he gets stronger. But there is no application of size in his body of work up to this point to suggest that he's going to be a traditionally physical player. It's going to take something from him to be more engaged in how he responds defensively - think Tallinder as an example of someone who wasn't a killer but used his reach and skating to great effect in his own zone. Power bringing more of that sort of game isn't even a matter of being fully grown, it's more a matter of him activating into the proper actions. The kid watches a lot of plays.

I'm not advocating for him to be a killer. That's never going to happen. Just show more refined technique and better stick work in one's own zone. And that's going to be a combo of coaching and him.

 

[Irie]

I would assume he'll be able to be stout and simply stand his ground more often as he gets stronger. But there is no application of size in his body of work up to this point to suggest that he's going to be a traditionally physical player. It's going to take something from him to be more engaged in how he responds defensively - think Tallinder as an example of someone who wasn't a killer but used his reach and skating to great effect in his own zone. Power bringing more of that sort of game isn't even a matter of being fully grown, it's more a matter of him activating into the proper actions. The kid watches a lot of plays.

I'm not advocating for him to be a killer. That's never going to happen. Just show more refined technique and better stick work in one's own zone. And that's going to be a combo of coaching and him.

I totally agree. Just saying that posters are writing him off as a defensive and physical lost-cause when he is only 20/21 is misguided. I am willing to bet that in a year and a half(Start of the 25/26 season), Power will be just as or more physically engaged as Johnson is today when he hits Johnson's current age.

Maybe it is wishfull thinking on my part, but I do not think it is that unrealistic, and I really just wanted to point out the age discrepancies of the young players and draw attention to realistic age-related expectations of the very young guys, which I think are often forgotten here.

 

[OkimLom]

Everyone looks at size and expects players to play a certain way, but Power just turned 21 this season. He's just a pup.

He has shown some fire this year (not often, but there have been times where he has not backed down and his pushback was great to see). I think posters are unfairly projecting what the player will be in 4 years based off of misguided perceptions. Most rookie D come into the league between 22 and 24. At that age, they are starting to have physical confidence. Power came in way too early, and just going off of his age, we should not have expected him to be very physical.

And no, I am not saying Owen Power is going to develop into Scott Stevens, but there will be some added physicality to his game as he physically matures and ages, that is almost universal.

A pup that a professional hockey team, decided, in it's wisdom, that said pup is physically, and mentally ready to play top 4 minutes right away.

Whether it's fair or not, when you are playing those sort of minutes there's usually a quite of bit of expectations compared to a rookie that's playing 3rd pairing minutes. Of course there's an expectation of Ryan playing some physical hockey but it's not as dire as it is for guys to play top 4 and important minutes.

There's a ton of growth that the team needs to see from, now their 5 young "core" defenseman. I question how much growth will actually be brought out of the guys as they attempt to learn without any vet pairing mates. Not to mention the skills development coaches and assistant coaches we have on staff, are not exactly a beacon of confidence of developing said players.

 

[Irie]

A pup that a professional hockey team, decided, in it's wisdom, that said pup is physically, and mentally ready to play top 4 minutes right away.

Whether it's fair or not, when you are playing those sort of minutes there's usually a quite of bit of expectations compared to a rookie that's playing 3rd pairing minutes. Of course there's an expectation of Ryan playing some physical hockey but it's not as dire as it is for guys to play top 4 and important minutes.

There's a ton of growth that the team needs to see from, now their 5 young "core" defenseman. I question how much growth will actually be brought out of the guys as they attempt to learn without any vet pairing mates. Not to mention the skills development coaches and assistant coaches we have on staff, are not exactly a beacon of confidence of developing said players.

Oh, it is a shit-show, but the knee jerk reactions here is always to blame the player and not the environment, which is the bigger issue.

Management and coaching staff:
Let's acquire Montour and play him on his off-side in a defensive role!
Let's play Jokiharju on the PK and in a top pairing shut-down role!
Let's turn Krebs into a 4th line PK shut-down center!
Let's play a 19 year old Owen Power in a top 4 role and give him 25 minutes a night!

HF Buffalo Fan board:
Those players all suck, Get rid of all of them because they will never be good!

We have been through 3 coaching staffs in a row that are unable to identify players strengths, adjust their gameplans and use them accordingly. Maybe most of it is on the GMs, not getting the proper pieces to fill the holes, forcing the coaching staffs to play round pieces in square holes, but a good coach should be able to adjust the roles a bit to better utilize what he has, and the communication between the GM and the coach has got to be better if the coaching staff is unable/unwilling to adjust.

 

[Ace]

I really think joker is the odd man out as I don’t see them trading any of Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Byram, Clifton, or Johnson

This brings up an interesting question because I agree with you. Do they extend Byram in the off-season? If they move Joker out it makes a pretty clear line between the guys they picked and the ones they didn’t. Cozens, Dahlin, Power, Tage and Samuelsson all got paid long before they gained arbitration rights. Casey didn’t. And they moved him heading into his eligible offseason.. If they move Joker too…it’s kind of the same thing. You weren’t picked…we aren’t letting someone else tell us what to pay you. Byram has arb rights after next year. I wonder if they lock him up long term and say…hey…this was the plan and he’s part of the core. They really don’t middle it with the guys they pick for the core. At least when it comes to arbitration eligibility

 

[OkimLom]

Oh, it is a shit-show, but the knee jerk reactions here is always to blame the player and not the environment, which is the bigger issue.

Management and coaching staff:
Let's acquire Montour and play him on his off-side in a defensive role!
Let's play Jokiharju on the PK and in a top pairing shut-down role!
Let's turn Krebs into a 4th line PK shut-down center!
Let's play a 19 year old Owen Power in a top 4 role and give him 25 minutes a night!

HF Buffalo Fan board:
Those players all suck, Get rid of all of them because they will never be good!

We have been through 3 coaching staffs in a row that are unable to identify players strengths, adjust their gameplans and use them accordingly. Maybe most of it is on the GMs, not getting the proper pieces to fill the holes, forcing the coaching staffs to play round pieces in square holes, but a good coach should be able to adjust the roles a bit to better utilize what he has, and the communication between the GM and the coach has got to be better if the coaching staff is unable/unwilling to adjust.

Meh, I don't really hold much weight with what fans say about players at the end of the day, even if I disagree or even agree with what is said. As fans, our emotional reactions are harmless and shouldn't have any bearing on the players themselves, though I'm kind of intrigued by the notion that the players are to fragile to let it affect them at the level it has recently. As my grandfather used to say; just let them tire themselves out.

 

[Dubi Doo]

No, I see Gus sawing off Mathews as a win. I see Thompson and Cozens continuing to flounder in their roles as extremely troubling.

Same. Part of the reason I wanted to keep Mitts was so we could keep Cozens on the wing. I was fine with:

Thompson
Mitts
Krebs
Savvy veteran bottom-6 C

Going into next year, and trying to revamp the wings around them, but now the center spine looks quite helpless in terms of two-way play + there's no help in the short term + I've been trying to convince myself Adams sees this as an issue and will address the C depth, but my mind is saying 'no, no, no....'

I'm not even going to get into him sticking with the coaching staff so long. It is the roster thread afterall. I will say, if Adams doesn't address the forward group in a meaningful way this summer, then I am going to be missing a lot of games before Dec even hits, and that's a damn shame because I truly love this sport and am a huge fan of the team *obviously *

 

[Beerz]

We need an elite forward and trading Owen Power is the best way to accomplish that.

 

[Snippit]

Paging Tage Thompson and Dylan Cozens….

 

[The Red Helmet]

Byram is money. Now let's trade for Andersson and lock up the top 4 for the cup run in two seasons.

 

[Ace]

We need an elite forward and trading Owen Power is the best way to accomplish that.

Wait…

Your position is that Power is terrible and although he is set to make 8.35 million dollars until 2031 while being terrible…he’s bringing back what exactly? Because other teams will be bidding up the return for a guy you claim is the worst…and paid a ton…forever?

That is insane troll logic.