Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Chainshot]

Canucks also have best third line in NHL me thinks.

And they had one of the weaker 2nd lines up until making the Lindholm trade, at least in terms of the top teams in the standings this year.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

You are literally the only person here with the absurd notion we plan to stay 5 to 10mil under the cap in perpetuity

I complained about not using the cap last year at the deadline, throwing away an opportunity. We had millions of dollars to play with to acquire picks or actually add D depth. Did neither. We could have used retention on a few guys to add value. We are $8 million under the cap this year with lame excuses about "blocking" guys that people seem to buy. How is a 13th year of not making playoffs working out? I'm sure someone will say we spent to the cap, and it didn't work -- the craziest logic ever. Or no one will sign in Buffalo? All ridiculous. We are not spending (remember trading for Bishop to get to the floor), and when we do, spend through $7 M at Okposo, Jost, and Girgensions. LOL The $3.25 million on Erik Johnson was laughable.
Buffalo has a chance to use three retentions to surface some value of tradeable parts like Oloffson (maybe), EJ, Girgensons, Okposo. It's possible they can be moved without retention but value of what we get will go up with it.
My guess is we won't come close to using our full cap this year at deadline and it will be the same next year.
People blame Kevyn Adams for everything but Pegula has kneecapped multiple GMs. Do I have to mention O'Reilly bonus.

 

[Ace]

Dreger today when asked about Buffalo doing anything to help themselves in the future before the deadline: “I check with my Buffalo people and it’s still status quo. Calls come in. Calls go out.” Then said things were much hotter in Ottawa and excitedly threw a bunch of rumors around for them. Because they want to add several quality pieces to get out of their sinkhole.

He prefaced all of this by saying GMs always look for any opportunity to improve their team.

Something that sounds obvious but after four years of Adams actually is impossible to believe.

 

[Zman5778]

Dreger today when asked about Buffalo doing anything to help themselves in the future before the deadline: “I check with my Buffalo people and it’s still status quo. Calls come in. Calls go out.” Then said things were much hotter in Ottawa and excitedly threw a bunch of rumors around for them. Because they want to add several quality pieces to get out of their sinkhole.

He prefaced all of this by saying GMs always look for any opportunity to improve their team.

Something that sounds obvious but after four years of Adams actually is impossible to believe.

So Dreger knows nothing, as is his usual regarding the Sabres.

 

[TehDoak]

If I were writing a 'what went wrong' article about the Sabres rebuild v 3 (4? 5?) it would be about how the ownership/front used the excuse of 'evaluation' to justify inaction and a budget level team. I don't think anyone was trying to pull a 'worst to first' like Tim Murray did, but adding some non exciting, long term depth level vets to later combine with bigger adds when we had excess draft capital could have easily raised the floor early in 21 and 22 and probably pushed us over the edge to the playoffs when everything went right in 23 and kept the ship from going as far off course in this year.

1 good addition in the summer of 2021, via UFA or trade, when we had 2x 1sts and 2x 2nds and were at the cap floor
1 good addition in the summer of 2022 when we had 3x 1sts, and 1 2nd, and were a cap floor team again.

You accomplish that, we are probably in the playoff race right now.

But....the just hoarding prospects at a stupid rate and making budget for 2 out of Adams first 3 years as GM has cost us in the year where things were supposed to finally be different.

This is why you don't hire Kevyn from the practice rink to run your team.

 

[Zman5778]

If I were writing a 'what went wrong' article about the Sabres rebuild v 3 (4? 5?) it would be about how the ownership/front used the excuse of 'evaluation' to justify inaction and a budget level team. I don't think anyone was trying to pull a 'worst to first' like Tim Murray did, but adding some non exciting, long term depth level vets to later combine with bigger adds when we had excess draft capital could have easily raised the floor early in 21 and 22 and probably pushed us over the edge to the playoffs when everything went right in 23 and kept the ship from going as far off course in this year.

1 good addition in the summer of 2021, via UFA or trade, when we had 2x 1sts and 2x 2nds and were at the cap floor
1 good addition in the summer of 2022 when we had 3x 1sts, and 1 2nd, and were a cap floor team again.

You accomplish that, we are probably in the playoff race right now.

But....the just hoarding prospects at a stupid rate and making budget for 2 out of Adams first 3 years as GM has cost us in the year where things were supposed to finally be different.

This is why you don't hire Kevyn from the practice rink to run your team.

I am unconvinced that this downtick means that this version of the rebuild has failed.

And hell.......if we had a league-average Power Play, we're probably in the thick of the playoff race even given everything this year.....thanks largely to UPL coming of age and providing us with *gasp* above-average goaltending.

But really.....if you're convinced that you can already write a "what went wrong" article -- Murray and Adams "failed" for the exact same reason, but did so in different manners. Neither GM gave their young team the right veterans. Murray tried to give Sam/Jack/Risto/etc good veteran leadership........but chose players with rather questionable character. Adams hasn't really tried much at all to surround his young guns with solid veteran leadership -- ESPECIALLY at the center position (he at least put forth a token effort on defense with Clifton and EJ) and in net.

But again, I don't think the epitaph can be written on this team just yet.

 

[Mattilaus]

1 good addition in the summer of 2021, via UFA or trade, when we had 2x 1sts and 2x 2nds and were at the cap floor
1 good addition in the summer of 2022 when we had 3x 1sts, and 1 2nd, and were a cap floor team again.

You accomplish that, we are probably in the playoff race right now.

You accomplish that, we are probably in the playoffs last year and looking to improve more this year. 2 good additions likely equals the 1 win we missed by last year.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I am unconvinced that this downtick means that this version of the rebuild has failed.

And hell.......if we had a league-average Power Play, we're probably in the thick of the playoff race even given everything this year.....thanks largely to UPL coming of age and providing us with *gasp* above-average goaltending.

But really.....if you're convinced that you can already write a "what went wrong" article -- Murray and Adams "failed" for the exact same reason, but did so in different manners. Neither GM gave their young team the right veterans. Murray tried to give Sam/Jack/Risto/etc good veteran leadership........but chose players with rather questionable character. Adams hasn't really tried much at all to surround his young guns with solid veteran leadership -- ESPECIALLY at the center position (he at least put forth a token effort on defense with Clifton and EJ) and in net.

But again, I don't think the epitaph can be written on this team just yet.

Agreed. There's a huge gap between adding Kane, Bogosian, and Lehner, and adding Johnson, Clifton, and Robinson.

At the very least, the Adams additions won't cause the roster to self-destruct.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

If Adams is unwilling to sign Mitts and trades him, short of getting a ridiculously good return in terms of value and fit, I'll be done with him. Even "shopping him" is wild, though I think that just means taking calls.

Not just because he'd be kneecapping what little on-ice heart and soul this group has, since Mitts is bar none the hardest working, lowest ego, most give-a-**** (also most productive...) player on the team. (So much so that the more conspiracy-minded fans who believe that Pegula doesn't even want a winner would start looking a little less crazy.)

But because it would confirm that Adams' idea of how to build a consistently competitive roster is completely misguided. And that's just in the regular season, not even considering playoff hockey yet. Mitts is among if not our best player at: winning board battles, creative play linking, high-danger chance creation, high-effort backchecking. He's bad at... faceoffs. Subtracting that player from this roster would be catastrophic imo, unless the player we get back is better than Mitts at those things. Problem is, teams that want players like that don't really trade away players like that. Good teams collect players like 2024 Mitts, so if the idea is to be a good team...

It follows this conversation from the Stars game thread. From his drafting, roster construction, coaching staff hires, and most importantly, on-ice product, Adams' philosophy doesn't appear to value interior offense and physical play. Why? It doesn't represent who Adams was as a player. Is it the push of our analytics dept? I didn't think they were that influential, but the drafting would suggest that they think they've found an inefficiency from teams overvaluing size, etc. Can we just not compete to acquire the most valuable physical net front F and D who can also skate? Shouldn't we focus on drafting them then?

I guess I just don't get it. This is the type of team that we've intentionally built. What did they expect? And what do they expect if they deal one of our only players that (even slightly) breaks that trend?

Someone else here smarter than me questioned if Mitts has a style of play that is effective in the playoffs, and the team might not think so, and therefore be looking to capitalize on his good season by trading him at his peak value.

Sounds like one potential reason they could be shopping him that has some logic behind it. There could be reasons to trade him that aren’t awful. But it’s an offseason move anyway, so we’ll be talking about this until the summer I’m sure.

So Dreger knows nothing, as is his usual regarding the Sabres.

Dreger is going to be correct - he’ll be proven correct when Buffalo doesn’t do anything of significance until the offseason. All he’s doing is vocalizing what the team and fans already know.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Agreed. There's a huge gap between adding Kane, Bogosian, and Lehner, and adding Johnson, Clifton, and Robinson.

At the very least, the Adams additions won't cause the roster to self-destruct.

That’s the beauty of the perpetual “kicking the can” strategy. There will always be hope in three more years!

 

[TehDoak]

I am unconvinced that this downtick means that this version of the rebuild has failed.

And hell.......if we had a league-average Power Play, we're probably in the thick of the playoff race even given everything this year.....thanks largely to UPL coming of age and providing us with *gasp* above-average goaltending.

But really.....if you're convinced that you can already write a "what went wrong" article -- Murray and Adams "failed" for the exact same reason, but did so in different manners. Neither GM gave their young team the right veterans. Murray tried to give Sam/Jack/Risto/etc good veteran leadership........but chose players with rather questionable character. Adams hasn't really tried much at all to surround his young guns with solid veteran leadership -- ESPECIALLY at the center position (he at least put forth a token effort on defense with Clifton and EJ) and in net.

But again, I don't think the epitaph can be written on this team just yet.

I mean, we certainly aren't going to start another rebuild and purge out who we have.

I really think the fun conversation starts with "are we in a better spot as a franchise from when Adams took over" and its probably a conversation worth having this summer.

But, 4 straight years with no playoffs is a failure for any GM, regardless of circumstances. Especially in a league where making 1/2 the teams make the playoffs.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

How this downturn season has come about might be a bit of a circular issue. From the top down, there has been no urgency to win, no accountability to reach a certain goal, just "development". Coaching would provide a big improvement regardless of who's on the roster, but some of the best players have been bad to mediocre so far. Is that coaching, or have they either gotten lazy without accountability, or become unmotivated seeing the bare minimum of roster upgrades?

Whatever the cause, I worry that this season may reinforce bad habits or mindsets, rather than motivate the roster to come back stronger next season. Even if Adams deserve more criticism (even if his inaction is at the behest of Pegula), Granato has failed miserably to get more from the roster with his stuffed animal coziness. I fear that's what might condition this group to remain soft/lazy/unprepared.

 

[OkimLom]

For me, the vision for Adams seems to be to build the roster version of the WISH Toronto Maple Leafs. Nothing about how Adams is drafting, or constructing tells me that he's looking to build a team that can/will succeed in the playoffs which should be the ultimate goal.

The player makeup, the leadership from the expected roster vets, a lot of it is falling flat for me, in expecting this team to have an impact that can sustain itself. A team that stays to the outside as much as Buffalo does, can only take you so far, and while some of it can be contributed to coaching, a player's "DNA" at the end of the day will instinctually take them into the crowded area of the ice or it won't.

 

[HOOats]

Someone else here smarter than me questioned if Mitts has a style of play that is effective in the playoffs, and the team might not think so, and therefore be looking to capitalize on his good season by trading him at his peak value.

Sounds like one potential reason they could be shopping him that has some logic behind it. There could be reasons to trade him that aren’t awful. But it’s an offseason move anyway, so we’ll be talking about this until the summer I’m sure.

Would love to hear more about that from you or whoever it was that raised that question. Can't think of a single more effective playoff style forward on this roster at the moment. Tight spaces, stick battles, board play, quick passing windows. Effort.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Would love to hear more about that from you or whoever it was that raised that question. Can't think of a single more effective playoff style forward on this roster at the moment. Tight spaces, stick battles, board play, quick passing windows. Effort.

I truly doubt it happens, but if Mitts get traded without a big return the way you described earlier, it would be a terrible sign with several really bad explanations. It might be close to a litmus test for me.

 

[StrompTroller]

If I were writing a 'what went wrong' article about the Sabres rebuild v 3 (4? 5?) it would be about how the ownership/front used the excuse of 'evaluation' to justify inaction and a budget level team. I don't think anyone was trying to pull a 'worst to first' like Tim Murray did, but adding some non exciting, long term depth level vets to later combine with bigger adds when we had excess draft capital could have easily raised the floor early in 21 and 22 and probably pushed us over the edge to the playoffs when everything went right in 23 and kept the ship from going as far off course in this year.

1 good addition in the summer of 2021, via UFA or trade, when we had 2x 1sts and 2x 2nds and were at the cap floor
1 good addition in the summer of 2022 when we had 3x 1sts, and 1 2nd, and were a cap floor team again.

You accomplish that, we are probably in the playoff race right now.

But....the just hoarding prospects at a stupid rate and making budget for 2 out of Adams first 3 years as GM has cost us in the year where things were supposed to finally be different.

This is why you don't hire Kevyn from the practice rink to run your team.

Step one was trading Marcus Foligno away...get it right

 

[Dubi Doo]

Thompson, Cozens, Dahlin, and Skinner were all playing poorly prior to missing time with any injury. Tuch was rumored to be injured going into the season and started slowly. It's not like injury derailed things, those guys were playing below expectations prior to missing time.

Yup. Peterka, Greenway, Benson, Mitts, Joki, and EJ were their best players early on. Dahlin was good, too, imo. Not dominant like he should be, though. The rest of the core was MIA well before the injuries. I was patient for the first 10-15 games, but once we got into December...I tapped out.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

If I were writing a 'what went wrong' article about the Sabres rebuild v 3 (4? 5?) it would be about how the ownership/front used the excuse of 'evaluation' to justify inaction and a budget level team. I don't think anyone was trying to pull a 'worst to first' like Tim Murray did, but adding some non exciting, long term depth level vets to later combine with bigger adds when we had excess draft capital could have easily raised the floor early in 21 and 22 and probably pushed us over the edge to the playoffs when everything went right in 23 and kept the ship from going as far off course in this year.

1 good addition in the summer of 2021, via UFA or trade, when we had 2x 1sts and 2x 2nds and were at the cap floor
1 good addition in the summer of 2022 when we had 3x 1sts, and 1 2nd, and were a cap floor team again.

You accomplish that, we are probably in the playoff race right now.

But....the just hoarding prospects at a stupid rate and making budget for 2 out of Adams first 3 years as GM has cost us in the year where things were supposed to finally be different.

This is why you don't hire Kevyn from the practice rink to run your team.

We're in a playoff race with an average PP. That's it. The roster is more than capable of making the playoffs as is. I mean top 10 in 5v5 scoring. Above average goaltending. With better coaching it's easily a playoff team.

"1 good addition in the summer of 2021, via UFA or trade, when we had 2x 1sts and 2x 2nds and were at the cap floor
1 good addition in the summer of 2022 when we had 3x 1sts, and 1 2nd, and were a cap floor team again.

You accomplish that, we are probably in the playoff race right now."

So why isn't Ottawa a playoff team? I mean they pretty much made the moves you wanted them to.

Or maybe not going after those FAs that you wanted like Korpisalo/Husso or trading Benson away for Timo/Chychrun were still smart moves, despite the team not being good this year? We'd pretty much be in the same spot just with huge cap issues & lacking prospects.

 

[Dingo44]

 

[Chainshot]

Part of me is expecting the "plan" for this summer to just be about backing money up to Pesce to get him to come to Buffalo. And it builds in yet more "well, we tried" when he goes somewhere more competitive or with whatever he's looking for off the ice (though Buffalo seems like a fit for some of his off-ice stuff).

 

[TageGod]

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Calgary is in a playoff race right now sadly that isn't happening before off season unless they take a dive.

 

[Chainshot]

Calgary is in a playoff race right now sadly that isn't happening before off season unless they take a dive.

That didn't stop them from moving Lindholm.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Part of me is expecting the "plan" for this summer to just be about backing money up to Pesce to get him to come to Buffalo. And it builds in yet more "well, we tried" when he goes somewhere more competitive or with whatever he's looking for off the ice (though Buffalo seems like a fit for some of his off-ice stuff).

I wouldn’t be surprised. I know Marek who is one of the few that has true sources in the Sabres org said Pesce to Buffalo seemed like a done deal but something happened last second.

Whether him nixing it or Carolina deciding they were better off keeping him. Or Adams deciding to roll the dice.

 

[Chainshot]

I wouldn’t be surprised. I know Marek who is one of the few that has true sources in the Sabres org said Pesce to Buffalo seemed like a done deal but something happened last second.

Whether him nixing it or Carolina deciding they were better off keeping him. Or Adams deciding to roll the dice.

I've heard it was Pesce saying no.

 

[TageGod]

That didn't stop them from moving Lindholm.

I guess they are really throwing in the towel huh. That timing was odd to me.