Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[TehDoak]

Re: Mittelstadt

I've haven't been a fan of the guy, but I can't argue with his production and play the latter half of last year and this year.

It would be a mistake to move him for pure futures. I understand not wanting to commit long term, but the last thing we need is more picks that will just turn into prospects. Make a hockey trade and get a legit NHL (Top 4 D/Top 6F) back. No more punting seasons.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Re: power play. My son and I watch the PP a lot. The biggest issue is dumb possession issues.

Skinner should not be on the power play. He makes some of the most impressive passing plays you'll ever see, bookended by an inability to make an easy pass when he's got time and space.

The Sabres play a balanced power play with Dahlin as the QB. But they've only got Thompson on the left half boards as the shooting threat. Teams are shading to Thompson and taking him away, and that leads to crap shots.

The Capitals had the same issue, so they stacked the power play to the right half boards. Kuznetsov at the right half boards, Backstrom down low below the goal line, and Oshie as a combo net front/bumper. For a decade, they'd put you to sleep on the right side and then get it to Ovechkin on the left half wall once your penalty kill structure broke down.

The Sabres have the talent to do this set up. Put Mittelstadt in the Backstrom position, Tuch at the bumper/net front in the Oshie position, and Benson in the Kuznetsov position.

They could even to the same thing in the opposite way to use Olofsson. Power up top, Cozens at the left half wall, Greenway at the bumper, Peterka down low in the Backstrom position, and Olofsson at the right half wall.

Then just make simple passes and possess the puck. Not hard.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

So I have a question: if the power play is single handedly killing this team why does the guy whose job it is to oversee this aspect still have a job?

I wouldn't say it is the only problem but it is the one most easily fixed short term. I'd love to know the answer of why Matt Ellis is still there. I don't care that he sucked as an NHLer. I care that the PP sucks. The only explanation is that the country club protects people to keep everyone happy, or Pags won't pay for another assistant. Who knows?

 

[Der Jaeger]

In coaching, there's still a big conflict between what I'd call "moneyball" hockey and old school hockey.

Moneyball hockey looks at what correlates with wins and then designs and develops teams, then trains them to play a certain way. The Soviet style is a pre-runner, the way the 2012-2014 Kings played is a nod to this thinking. There are more and derivative systems.

Then you've got the older school thinking that if we just execute better, we'll win.

I don't know where Ellis falls for sure, but I'd make a bet.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

So I have a question: if the power play is single handedly killing this team why does the guy whose job it is to oversee this aspect still have a job?

Because they're lying when they tell us that winning is the #1 goal this year. I'm convinced they settled for improvement this season, not the playoffs -- but can't even get the improvement part right either.

I wouldn't say it is the only problem but it is the one most easily fixed short term.

This is a key fact. The coach isn't the main problem, he's just the easiest place to start. And we aren't allowed to even do that.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

In coaching, there's still a big conflict between what I'd call "moneyball" hockey and old school hockey.

Moneyball hockey looks at what correlates with wins and then designs and develops teams, then trains them to play a certain way. The Soviet style is a pre-runner, the way the 2012-2014 Kings played is a nod to this thinking. There are more and derivative systems.

Then you've got the older school thinking that if we just execute better, we'll win.

I don't know where Ellis falls for sure, but I'd make a bet.

I think Ellis is making far fewer decisions on anything than people assume. He's carrying out the bosses orders more than spearheading and overseeing the entire development strategy.

 

[TehDoak]

I think Ellis is making far fewer decisions on anything than people assume. He's carrying out the bosses orders more than spearheading and overseeing the entire development strategy.

Having Matt Ellis in charge of the power play is like having Rob Ray in charge of pronunciation.

 

[EichHart]

That is my point, the whole cast is good around those centers. They have margin for injuries. If KA signs/trades for 3 of Top 6 C, top 4 D, solid winger that goes to the net, solid depth D; is he still a bad GM or was he just more patient than you wanted?

When your response about stats being misleading and vary based on situations is more stats, yeah.

We know Adams does identify needs and try to make trades, he just has a value and wont overpay so that is likely your answer to the replacing Quinn part.

The cast is good because their coaching/development is good. I refuse to believe this team doesnt have enough talent after drafting higher than Boston for 20+ yrs. Until those 2 things get fixed it won't matter if we get 10 #1 picks.

 

[GellMann]

Sabres all struggled out of the gate, their injuries are not valued high because their current performance was low. You are just stat watching. Why would you ever expect this current lineup to make the playoffs with Thompson, Cozens, Skinner, Tuch, and Quinn missing games/playing hurt. This team needed a healthy roster all year to even compete. There is not depth to overcome injuries. Middle of the pack on a bubble team might as well be a tank year.

Not a single one of these players missed such a significant stretch of time that the combination should be considered worth giving a mulligan to a season. This is an ordinary season injury-wise, you should EXPECT this any given year. That is how hockey works. This post is embarrassing.

Partially, and some of it is FA and players with NMC wont come here.

The injury is a bit misleading. Classic stat watching without context. Top two centers missed some time, one of our top 4 D (supposedly) missed a ton and is now done for the year, Quinn as a top 6W missed a ton. Man games doesn't paint the picture its quality of players injured. Sabre's can't overcome that kind of injuries. Boston VGK etc. can.

"Quinn missed a ton"

We knew Quinn would miss games before it was even time to start adding to the roster last summer. They were fine with VO taking that spot. They are fine with the garbage team they iced, and completely eviscerated all the good will they spent two years building up. This team was everything to me, and now they just make me ill.

 

[toddkaz]

32 Thoughts: Where will the Coyotes call home after Mullett Arena?

In his latest thoughts, Elliotte Friedman writes about where we stand with the Arizona Coyotes' arena situation; the developing trade market for centres; which goalies to watch; and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

13. Buffalo’s got a lot of good prospects, a really talented group not yet in the NHL. Over the next few months, it’s very possible some will be used to get what the Sabres need. There’s not room for all of them, and teams always wrestle with when someone outgrows the AHL. I’m very curious to see which young Sabres get a look over the next little while. I also expect Erik Johnson moves. That’s a no-brainer for a contender.

 

[Ace]

I’d love to believe that thought comes from hearing things…but I’m gonna need to see to believe. Every time Friedman talks about the Sabres under this regime it‘s more like…I know people want to know about Buffalo making a move or firing a coach or whatever…but things are really quiet. Until Adams actually does something…or if Friedman elaborates with an anecdote…im just taking it as he gets asked all the time when we will do something and it’s so far past the point of things should have been done he’s trying to dot connect. This season is dead…they can’t do the same thing again. Here’s a thought.

Wish I could at least enjoy a rumor…but at this point Adams has choked the life out of even that.

 

[Snippit]

I’m warming up to a Skinner buy-out. Not just for the cap hit, but roster spots are a premium right now with all the guys we have coming up. It’s hard to add externally because there are just so few spots.

If we can replace him with a high effort player who is competent defensively, I think we will be better off for it.

If not, trading him at 50% retained might be possible. 4.5M for a 60-80 point scorer might have appeal to some teams.

 

[Uberpecker]

Having Matt Ellis in charge of the power play is like having Rob Ray in charge of pronunciation.

To be fair, Rob Ray's pronunciation does contain some, albeit involuntary, creativity and has created some memorable moments. The Sabres' powerplay, however? Well...

 

[Djp]

They are still middle of the league in injury WAR. It is not an excuse.

i Disagree. Thr injuries were to the top 6. This hurt the offense and PP. you can see 12 games with small margins getting an extra point or winning a game they lost woukd put thrm in thr playoffs.

Merek said on his show yesterday that Mittelstadt is being shopped. I'm sure Kevyn's ask is unreasonable so it probably will result in nothing, but worth mentioning. Looking at the other teams and their rosters, and cap, etc., I don't really see many good fits.

He mentioned it while talking about Boston's needs at the deadline, so that's the only team I can think of. I can see Mitts going there and having a lot of success, like every other center does there.

Buffalo isn’t shopping Mitts, but teams are calling.

32 Thoughts: Where will the Coyotes call home after Mullett Arena?

In his latest thoughts, Elliotte Friedman writes about where we stand with the Arizona Coyotes' arena situation; the developing trade market for centres; which goalies to watch; and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

13. Buffalo’s got a lot of good prospects, a really talented group not yet in the NHL. Over the next few months, it’s very possible some will be used to get what the Sabres need. There’s not room for all of them, and teams always wrestle with when someone outgrows the AHL. I’m very curious to see which young Sabres get a look over the next little while. I also expect Erik Johnson moves. That’s a no-brainer for a contender.

They are not in a rush to move them now. They can play in Rochester next season. I see 25 or 26 summer being time thry might move some prospects/ young players.

 

[Chainshot]

i Disagree. Thr injuries were to the top 6. This hurt the offense and PP. you can see 12 games with small margins getting an extra point or winning a game they lost woukd put thrm in thr playoffs.

Buffalo isn’t shopping Mitts, but teams are calling.

They are not in a rush to move them now. They can play in Rochester next season. I see 25 or 26 summer being time thry might move some prospects/ young players.

Thompson, Cozens, Dahlin, and Skinner were all playing poorly prior to missing time with any injury. Tuch was rumored to be injured going into the season and started slowly. It's not like injury derailed things, those guys were playing below expectations prior to missing time.

 

[debaser66]

Re: Mittelstadt

I've haven't been a fan of the guy, but I can't argue with his production and play the latter half of last year and this year.

It would be a mistake to move him for pure futures. I understand not wanting to commit long term, but the last thing we need is more picks that will just turn into prospects. Make a hockey trade and get a legit NHL (Top 4 D/Top 6F) back. No more punting seasons.

he is a legit top6F and bringing back a 4D creates another hole at C. I do not understand what benefit it should have replacing him with another top6F. This team needs more players like him not less, bringing in someone else is always a risk that's not worth taking (chemistry, doesn't want to be here etc.)
he wants to be here and if he is around 7mil you should do it, you wont get someone else longterm cheaper at his level. nobody will sign here for a fair amount.

 

[debaser66]

To be fair, Rob Ray's pronunciation does contain some, albeit involuntary, creativity and has created some memorable moments. The Sabres' powerplay, however? Well...

isn't the saying in comedy if you repeat the same thing endlessly it gets funny again?

 

[Jim Bob]

Re: Mittelstadt

I've haven't been a fan of the guy, but I can't argue with his production and play the latter half of last year and this year.

It would be a mistake to move him for pure futures. I understand not wanting to commit long term, but the last thing we need is more picks that will just turn into prospects. Make a hockey trade and get a legit NHL (Top 4 D/Top 6F) back. No more punting seasons.

The challenge will be whether you can find another GM that wants to make a "hockey trade" like that. Especially this time of the year where the vast majority of trades are NHLers for futures. Most buyers now want to add for a playoff push. And a hockey trade takes away too much from the roster in most cases.

A Mitts "hockey trade" might need to happen in the draft through early UFA window.

 

[Jim Bob]

Thompson, Cozens, Dahlin, and Skinner were all playing poorly prior to missing time with any injury. Tuch was rumored to be injured going into the season and started slowly. It's not like injury derailed things, those guys were playing below expectations prior to missing time.

While not the sole reason, I do believe the Quinn injury (along with the decision to not make a meaningful add to fill in for him while he was out) and then the variety of nagging injuries, especially to Thompson and Cozens, have been a factor in why this team has been unable to get any momentum this season.

I think the #1 thing is the 28th ranked PP. They have been better 5v5 this season. And their PK has been better. But the PP being 9% worse than last year has been a killer.

 

[TageGod]

Not a single one of these players missed such a significant stretch of time that the combination should be considered worth giving a mulligan to a season. This is an ordinary season injury-wise, you should EXPECT this any given year. That is how hockey works. This post is embarrassing.

"Quinn missed a ton"

We knew Quinn would miss games before it was even time to start adding to the roster last summer. They were fine with VO taking that spot. They are fine with the garbage team they iced, and completely eviscerated all the good will they spent two years building up. This team was everything to me, and now they just make me ill.

Way to ignore my statement without telling me you ignored it. A team with a small margin for error will not survive their best players getting hurt. It is not just the man games missed. Cozens with his mask and Thompson with the brace were shells of themselves for even more games. Tuch is a passenger every other game since he is always hurt. If you told me Okposo EJ and krebs were responsible for the largest percent of man games missed, I would say it's not an excuse. I am also not even saying it is an excuse, it is just the truth. You cant give a top tier team and a non-playoff team the same injury margin.

Yes, there is blame on coaches and GM for the situation they are in, and why those injuries were not overcome.

It is kind of an odd take to say go out and replace Quinn's production because he got hurt. Should VGK have replaced Eichel's production when he went on IR? Replacing Quinn is adding a top 6 winger to a currently crowded room.

 

[Jim Bob]

Way to ignore my statement without telling me you ignored it. A team with a small margin for error will not survive their best players getting hurt. It is not just the man games missed. Cozens with his mask and Thompson with the brace were shells of themselves for even more games. Tuch is a passenger every other game since he is always hurt. If you told me Okposo EJ and krebs were responsible for the largest percent of man games missed, I would say it's not an excuse. I am also not even saying it is an excuse, it is just the truth. You cant give a top tier team and a non-playoff team the same injury margin.

Yes, there is blame on coaches and GM for the situation they are in, and why those injuries were not overcome.

It is kind of an odd take to say go out and replace Quinn's production because he got hurt. Should VGK have replaced Eichel's production when he went on IR? Replacing Quinn is adding a top 6 winger to a currently crowded room.

Is it that crowded with veterans that know how to play in a way that leads to winning?

Figuring out a way to replace VO with a solid veteran winger and maybe allowing Benson to head back to juniors is not the worst idea ever. And is something that many people said they needed to do once Quinn tore his Achilles. And Quinn got injured at the end of June. So, the Sabres could have signed a guy like Duchene, Bertuzzi or Tarasenko to try and fill in for Quinn.

 

[TageGod]

Is it that crowded with veterans that know how to play in a way that leads to winning?

Figuring out a way to replace VO with a solid veteran winger and maybe allowing Benson to head back to juniors is not the worst idea ever. And is something that many people said they needed to do once Quinn tore his Achilles.

Sabres get veteran leadership all the time and never makes a difference. They should have been fine, someone should have stepped up. Benson essentially stepped up. It was probably originally a plan for Savoies tryout spot.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

i Disagree. Thr injuries were to the top 6. This hurt the offense and PP. you can see 12 games with small margins getting an extra point or winning a game they lost woukd put thrm in thr playoffs.

Buffalo isn’t shopping Mitts, but teams are calling.

They are not in a rush to move them now. They can play in Rochester next season. I see 25 or 26 summer being time thry might move some prospects/ young players.

I think you’re wrong about every single point you’re making.

 

[Jim Bob]

Sabres get veteran leadership all the time and never makes a difference. They should have been fine, someone should have stepped up. Benson essentially stepped up. It was probably originally a plan for Savoies tryout spot.

Name the solid top 6 forward vet that they have added over the past few seasons.

Tuch is the last solid veteran they have added. Before that is Skinner. The Eichel/Tuch trade was 2 1/2 years ago. The Skinner trade was almost 6 years ago.

 

[TehDoak]

The challenge will be whether you can find another GM that wants to make a "hockey trade" like that. Especially this time of the year where the vast majority of trades are NHLers for futures. Most buyers now want to add for a playoff push. And a hockey trade takes away too much from the roster in most cases.

A Mitts "hockey trade" might need to happen in the draft through early UFA window.

I tend to think that is correct, this should be a summer deal, not a deadline deal. I guess if a team absolutely blows our socks off with a trade it'd be one thing. But, given the front offices lack of a track record for turning resources into players, I'd much rather simply wait until the summer.