Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Doug Prishpreed]

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Thank you for the amazing 9 years

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View attachment 813454

Skinner - Bought out
Clifton bought out
Mittelstadt to Nashville for Scissons and a 1st
Dumba brought in
Signed Joker
Added Blueger, Sundqvist, Martinook to round out bottom 6 on F
Kahkonen as our 3rd goalie (Levi is starting the year in Rochester)

Mix in a new coaching staff. Peterka takes Skinners spot, Benson takes Peterka's spot, bottom six is completely revamped.

This team sucks ass but I’d be thankful for it since they wouldn’t be tempting me to tune in at all.

Sure you can, by all reports KA has been rebuilding the Sabres reputation around the league so to take a big steaming dump on a new acquisition would do wonders to cement their no go status again

It’s also totally unnecessary, even as overpaid as he is.

 

[HOOats]

That team is less talented but far more balanced. It being better depends on coaching and goaltending.

That team is a tank team unless everyone miraculously produces at last year's levels. Signing Dumba 2 x $6.1M (including the CC buyout) is the move of a tanking team that hates money. Clifton has been MUCH better this season, has more runway still, and is only at $3.3M.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Vancouver got the guy we needed in Lindholm.

Kind of disappointed but I knew we wouldn't make a move other than sell.

 

[Gras]

Vancouver got the guy we needed in Lindholm.

Kind of disappointed but I knew we wouldn't make a move other than sell.

Would have been a waste of assets to go and get a rental

 

[debaser66]

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

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View attachment 813454

Skinner - Bought out
Clifton bought out
Mittelstadt to Nashville for Scissons and a 1st
Dumba brought in
Signed Joker
Added Blueger, Sundqvist, Martinook to round out bottom 6 on F
Kahkonen as our 3rd goalie (Levi is starting the year in Rochester)

Mix in a new coaching staff. Peterka takes Skinners spot, Benson takes Peterka's spot, bottom six is completely revamped.

sorry but if you going with Thompson and Cozen as a 1-2 like they are playing this year, with trading Mitts you are not going anywhere.
Your proposal weakens or center spine quite a bit.
I would say Mitts is worth more considering the age, RFA from what Calgary just got for Lindholm

 

[TageGod]

Vancouver got the guy we needed in Lindholm.

Kind of disappointed but I knew we wouldn't make a move other than sell.

He is 29 and needs a new contract...in what world is that what we needed? How did you know we didn't make a move when the deadline hasn't hit yet? Can I has your powers to see the future?

 

[Jim Bob]

Vancouver got the guy we needed in Lindholm.

Kind of disappointed but I knew we wouldn't make a move other than sell.

I liked the idea of Lindholm before this season.

But right now, I would rather re-sign Mitts than give up a bunch for Lindholm and then give him an even bigger contract than Mitts will likely get.

I like the Sabres 1-2-3 down the middle with Thompson, Cozens, and Mitts. And while you could move Cozens or Mitts to the wing, I would rather look at getting a veteran winger that fits what this team needs than trade for Lindholm and moving Cozens or Mitts to the wing.

Or use the trade assets that would have been needed to get Lindholm and get a D that is significantly better than Samuelsson, Jokiharju, and Clifton.

 

[TehDoak]

That team is a tank team unless everyone miraculously produces at last year's levels. Signing Dumba 2 x $6.1M (including the CC buyout) is the move of a tanking team that hates money. Clifton has been MUCH better this season, has more runway still, and is only at $3.3M.

No he hasn't. Dumba plays more ice time in harder deployments and has better underlying numbers.
Dumba is who we should have signed last summer.

I like the Sabres 1-2-3 down the middle with Thompson, Cozens, and Mitts.

I think we have shown that that center spline isn't functional when it comes to wins and losses.

 

[TehDoak]

Sure you can, by all reports KA has been rebuilding the Sabres reputation around the league so to take a big steaming dump on a new acquisition would do wonders to cement their no go status again

Until the team is actually winning, the only thing we will be able to get is guys who have a direct connection to the coach (Greenway, Clifton) or drastically overpay (Johnson). The teams reputation markedly worse since the whole Eichel debacle, which falls at the feet of KA.

This team sucks ass but I’d be thankful for it since they wouldn’t be tempting me to tune in at all.


It’s also totally unnecessary, even as overpaid as he is.

It's either him or Joker gone if you want to improve the defense this summer. I choose the easiest option.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

TehDoak's crusade to ditch Mittelstadt for terrible value lives on!

 

[TehDoak]

TehDoak's crusade to ditch Mittelstadt for terrible value lives on!

Sissons is:

- Signed reasonably for 2 more years after this one
- Plays hard defensive deployments
- Is a 50%+ career faceoff guy
- Provides a decent amount of offense despite of his role.

He would fetch a 1st at the trade deadline by himself.

I'm not poo pooing on Mittelstadt, I'm just trying to make a functional center spline that can actually handle the other end of the ice from time to time.

 

[Jim Bob]

I think we have shown that that center spline isn't functional when it comes to wins and losses.

I see the center spine of those three being way more likely to be a part of the solution moving forward than a problem that needs to be solved.

If they can get those three playing to close to their best for a bulk of the season, there won't be any issues with the "functionality" of those three.

The biggest question at C is that 4th guy. Krebs isn't it.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Sissons is:

- Signed reasonably for 2 more years after this one
- Plays hard defensive deployments
- Is a 50%+ career faceoff guy
- Provides a decent amount of offense despite of his role.

He would fetch a 1st at the trade deadline by himself.

I'm not poo pooing on Mittelstadt, I'm just trying to make a functional center spline that can actually handle the other end of the ice from time to time.

You're removing the best C we have for a 3/4 C that won't come close to Mitt's ES production. You're rationalizing a very stupid roster move, not seeing the forest for the trees. A 1st rd pick doesn't make up for that at all, since the team needs more veteran players and not futures.

You want Sissons so bad, there's about six better ways to acquire him, but your #1 go-to move to fill any roster hole continues to be trading Mitts for poor value. It's ass-clown comical.

 

[HOOats]

No he hasn't. Dumba plays more ice time in harder deployments and has better underlying numbers.
Dumba is who we should have signed last summer.

Have anything to share on that? The competition piece may be a part of the gap, I only have access to The Athletic's player cards (drawn from Evolving Hockey) but they don't support your claim. And certainly not at 6.1 vs 3.3.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Sissons is:

- Signed reasonably for 2 more years after this one
- Plays hard defensive deployments
- Is a 50%+ career faceoff guy
- Provides a decent amount of offense despite of his role.

He would fetch a 1st at the trade deadline by himself.

I'm not poo pooing on Mittelstadt, I'm just trying to make a functional center spline that can actually handle the other end of the ice from time to time.

The problem is that you wouldn't need to trade Mittelstadt and set the rebuild back two years. You're just including him because you want to get rid of him for some reason.

I'd happily trade Kulich and/or Ostlund and/or Rosen and/or Savoie, etc., but there's really no need to trade someone on the roster who isn't one of the problems.

 

[TehDoak]

Have anything to share on that? The competition piece may be a part of the gap, I only have access to The Athletic's player cards (drawn from Evolving Hockey) but they don't support your claim. And certainly not at 6.1 vs 3.3.
View attachment 813586View attachment 813587

Deployments/Usage are the problem. I'm not sure they take that into account.

Clifton if getting a pretty even split (51%) O-zone starts.

Dumba is getting 42% O-zone starts, meaning most of his starts are already in the d-zone.

 

[HOOats]

Deployments/Usage are the problem. I'm not sure they take that into account.

Clifton if getting a pretty even split (51%) O-zone starts.

Dumba is getting 42% O-zone starts, meaning most of his starts are already in the d-zone.

Not sure 9% more O-Zone starts is enough to explain the difference between them.

Clifton is driving a good amount of offense the last six weeks after battling the worst puck luck imaginable to start the year. Dumba... takes a ton of penalties.

 

[Gras]

Deployments/Usage are the problem. I'm not sure they take that into account.

Clifton if getting a pretty even split (51%) O-zone starts.

Dumba is getting 42% O-zone starts, meaning most of his starts are already in the d-zone.

Clifton has also been playing on his off side for most of the season which is harder for a right shot to do than a left shot.

 

[Zman5778]

Deployments/Usage are the problem. I'm not sure they take that into account.

Clifton if getting a pretty even split (51%) O-zone starts.

Dumba is getting 42% O-zone starts, meaning most of his starts are already in the d-zone.

Dom's model does not yet take into account deployments/usage, but he says it's coming.

51% of ~20 = 10
42% of ~20 = 9

So on a per game basis, Dumba is getting one extra D-zone start per game as compared to Clifton. Maybe 2 for a high usage game.

That's not a whole heckuva lot on a per game basis. And he's not doing THAT much better per the metrics.

Seems like it's at best a lateral move, and costs us money twice -- the money to buy-out Cliffy and then the money to pay Dumba.


All else being equal, I'd rather see us keep Cliffy (who has been playing well recently) and then find a top 4 RHD in the trade market.

 

[BFLO]

It confuses me how less offense but far better defense makes his overall value about a third of its previous level.

I don't know the exact math behind the overall rating, but it clearly favors offense over defense.

Tage was a top ~20 offensive player last year, and a bottom ~30 defensive player and they graded him out to a 92 overall.

This year he's about average at offense and defense and grades out below average overall.

 

[OkimLom]

Coaching has been the biggest issue for this organization for close to a decade, with terrible choice after terrible choice, opting for a "rookie" or someone who was out of hockey for a bit.

Before moving on from the center spine of Thompson-Cozens-Mittelstadt, I would like to see what those 3 can do under competent coaching before I'm making a decision to move on from any of them.

 

[Ehran]

Yeesh, the Sabres' February schedule is really backloaded. Not much when they return from the break but dang there's a lot in the last couple of weeks.

 

[Zman5778]

Yeesh, the Sabres' February schedule is really backloaded. Not much when they return from the break but dang there's a lot in the last couple of weeks.

Yeah. I think starting like the 13th or 15th they play like 16 games in 30 days or something ridiculous.

 

[sabremike]

Coaching has been the biggest issue for this organization for close to a decade, with terrible choice after terrible choice, opting for a "rookie" or someone who was out of hockey for a bit.

Before moving on from the center spine of Thompson-Cozens-Mittelstadt, I would like to see what those 3 can do under competent coaching before I'm making a decision to move on from any of them.

In honor of your awesome avatar that I just noticed:

 

[OkimLom]

In honor of your awesome avatar that I just noticed:
View attachment 813707

Thanks, even other species know not to mess with Inoki.