Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[toddkaz]

Are we fans of the business of fantasy hockey, or are we fans of the business of winning hockey games? I'll take the guy that is bringing more than just points to his line, than just focusing on the amount of goals to qualify whether or not he should be in the top 9.

But the truth is, we don't have too much talent waiting in the wings to replace him in the top 9. We barely have 1 player that has shown they are close to being ready for the NHL game in terms of prospects. We have guys we HOPE will be good enough, but until proven otherwise, right now all we have is hope. There's still a chance we will need a player like Greenway on their line to help ease the pressure and free them up to utilize them to their potential, much like he's doing for Benson currently.

Goals win games.

We don't have much talent even though Buffalo is ranked number 1 in prospects

3 of which could make the jump and are primed for the 3rd line.

 

[OkimLom]

Goals win games.

We don't have much talent even though Buffalo is ranked number 1 in prospect

If only hockey was THAT simple.

like I said, hope.

EDIT: Also, Sabres were 3rd in Goals for last year. Didn't make the playoffs.

 

[toddkaz]

If only hockey was THAT simple.

like I said, hope.

But is that simple. We saw where good vibes got us. We saw where shipping out our talented locker room cancers got us.

Tangibles can only take you so far but goals win games.

I expect 2 of Kulich, Rosen and Savioe to be on the team next year.

I think Mitts gets resigned and we walk away from Okposo and Girgensons opening up a spot for Greenway on the 4th line.

How long are we going to keep Krebs on the 4th line? He isnt a 4th line player
Krebs needs to take a step forward to the 3rd line or ship him out while he still has value.

Kulich will be on the 3rd line IMO next year. Rosen will be on the edge and Savoie could get a year in the AHL or could impress preseason.

Greenway has 25 goals in his last 4 seasons. The top 9 needs to produce more in todays NHL. I am not saying trade him away but he is a good 4th line player that can move up the lineup when needed.

 

[Jim Bob]

But is that simple. We saw where good vibes got us. We saw where shipping out our talented locker room cancers got us.

Tangibles can only take you so far but goals win games.

I expect 2 of Kulich, Rosen and Savioe to be on the team next year.

I think Mitts gets resigned and we walk away from Okposo and Girgensons opening up a spot for Greenway on the 4th line.

How long are we going to keep Krebs on the 4th line? He isnt a 4th line player
Krebs needs to take a step forward to the 3rd line or ship him out while he still has value.

Kulich will be on the 3rd line IMO next year. Rosen will be on the edge and Savoie could get a year in the AHL or could impress preseason.

We also have seen where consistently icing one of the youngest and least experienced teams in the NHL have gotten the Sabres.

Replacing vets with rookies is unlikely to make this team more consistent and a playoff contender.

 

[toddkaz]

We also have seen where consistently icing one of the youngest and least experienced teams in the NHL have gotten the Sabres.

Replacing vets with rookies is unlikely to make this team more consistent and a playoff contender.

I completely agree but thats not Adams mantra. He is building the team through the draft.

I would love for Adams to go out and get good players but I don't see it happening. Adams also said he doesn't want to block the prospects from roster spots.

Okposo is gone and maybe Girgensons will be here but I will be surprised if he resigns at 2.5m.

I could see Adams bringing in cheap vets for the 4th line thats about it.

Its going to be an interesting off season.

Skinner Tage Tuch
Quinn Cozens Peterka
Kulich Mitts Benson

Thats my guess for the top 9.

Greenway XXXX XXXX

For the 4th line.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

I guess one of this failed signings cost more than a whole department of pro scouts.
You might start to wonder how Pegula got to his wealth if its that how he does his business.

The Pegulas were in the right industry at the right place and time. They built a capital intensive business at a time when interest rates were falling, starting with a minimal investment that benefitted massively from the fracking developments around the Marcellus Shale. Their early positioning gave them an advantage before the gold rush started.

That's it. There are certainly good decisions along the way, but when others were racing to build infrastructure, they already had an established base. That shows the ability to speculate and make an investment, learning an industry and growing a business organically where you develop an intimate knowledge of the process over the course of decades.

Those skills do not translate well to their current situation. Sports franchise management is a hyper competitive, (almost) zero sum game. It is not an industry that they can easily learn on the fly, and it requires finding experts to lead the team. These people need to identify and acquire talent, competing against 31 other franchises who are trying to do the same thing. Buffalo already has disadvantages, being in an undesirable market, so you need to be even more shrewd.

The failure is, and will apparently always remain, in the Pegula's inability to hire quality managers and their unwillingness to cede control. They do not want to hire quality people who will challenge them. If they were just managing an investment, they would hire the most capable executive, grant them a level of autonomy, and evaluate them on their performance, with the end goal of maximizing their return. But they insist on retaining control in an industry in which they do not possess an expertise.

 

[Jim Bob]

I completely agree but thats not Adams mantra. He is building the team through the draft.

I would love for Adams to go out and get good players but I don't see it happening. Adams also said he doesn't want to block the prospects from roster spots.

Okposo is gone and maybe Girgensons will be here but I will be surprised if he resigns at 2.5m.

I could see Adams bringing in cheap vets for the 4th line thats about it.

Its going to be an interesting off season.

Skinner Tage Tuch
Quinn Cozens Peterka
Kulich Mitts Benson

Thats my guess for the top 9.

Greenway XXXX XXXX

For the 4th line.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I hope Adams is not stubbornly attached to the idea that growth from within is the way for this team to take the next step. Adding two rookies to replace guys like Okposo and Girgensons is not the way to elevate this roster to a playoff contender.

 

[OkimLom]

But is that simple. We saw where good vibes got us. We saw where shipping out our talented locker room cancers got us.

Tangibles can only take you so far but goals win games.

I expect 2 of Kulich, Rosen and Savioe to be on the team next year.

I think Mitts gets resigned and we walk away from Okposo and Girgensons opening up a spot for Greenway on the 4th line.

How long are we going to keep Krebs on the 4th line? He isnt a 4th line player

I'm not in the room, so I don't know how Greenway is in regards to the tangible aspect, but I watch him on the ice, and he provides a game on the ice that makes him a valuable component to make an effective line productive in producing quality hockey. You need guys like Greenway sprinkled throughout your lines produce winning hockey. It's part of the reason why I've wanted Girgensons in our top 9 for years. We don't have many guys like a Peterka or a Quinn that are close to full packages of hockey players to build with. We need guys like Greenway, Girgensons that can add the jam and play a necessary type of game to help produce space for others while dogging the opposition and making life difficult in the slot/crease area.

I agree about seeing certain guys on the team next year, but I think that will have to do the coaching staff/management wanting him them on the roster regardless of how ready they actually are. We've only seen a very miniscule amount of time of Kulich and Savioe, so we didn't see them get many opportunities, but I think it's premature to say for certainty that they are 100% ready for NHL time. Rosen had more time, and he didn't look close to being ready to be in the NHL, especially at what potential he has. I sure as heck don't want to see him be the next Krebs where he's just relegated to be a "4th line" like we have used our 4th line players. It's part of the reason why I hated bringing back Okposo instead of attempting of upgrading aspects of that line.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm not in the room, so I don't know how Greenway is in regards to the tangible aspect, but I watch him on the ice, and he provides a game on the ice that makes him a valuable component to make an effective line productive in producing quality hockey. You need guys like Greenway sprinkled throughout your lines produce winning hockey. It's part of the reason why I've wanted Girgensons in our top 9 for years. We don't have many guys like a Peterka or a Quinn that are close to full packages of hockey players to build with. We need guys like Greenway, Girgensons that can add the jam and play a necessary type of game to help produce space for others while dogging the opposition and making life difficult in the slot/crease area.

I agree about seeing certain guys on the team next year, but I think that will have to do the coaching staff/management wanting him them on the roster regardless of how ready they actually are. We've only seen a very miniscule amount of time of Kulich and Savioe, so we didn't see them get many opportunities, but I think it's premature to say for certainty that they are 100% ready for NHL time. Rosen had more time, and he didn't look close to being ready to be in the NHL, especially at what potential he has. I sure as heck don't want to see him be the next Krebs where he's just relegated to be a "4th line" like we have used our 4th line players. It's part of the reason why I hated bringing back Okposo instead of attempting of upgrading aspects of that line.

Agreed, the skill mix has to make a workable line. We're a couple of games from Greenway winning board battles to create plays that resulted directly in two goals scored - that's exactly what a player like him provides.

 

[toddkaz]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I hope Adams is not stubbornly attached to the idea that growth from within is the way for this team to take the next step. Adding two rookies to replace guys like Okposo and Girgensons is not the way to elevate this roster to a playoff contender.

Have you heard him Adams anything different?

The rookies aren't replacing Okposo and Girgensons because they wont be on the 4th line.

Or at least I hope not.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

With how quickly Quinn has been able to put up some points and Mitts becoming a bit of a stud for us, this is where I would start to look to move on from a couple of our repetitive prospects for some tougher middle 6 talent.

With the season basically gone, I would likely wait until the offseason in order to max out value.

This isn't the NFL, An NHL GM is responsible for a lot more planning and roster moves than draft and sign.

 

[Selanne00008]

Looking at cap friendly I learned a few things. First, I was thinking where are all these prospects going to fit in? But, most of the following could be assumed: VO is gone (traded at deadline?) by end of year, Okposo and Girgenson are most likely gone by summer, Krebs could also be out.

For some reason I didn't realize Mitts is a RFA after this year. So, I guess that's a silver lining of sorts. Not sure what to do with mitts and what his value is (salary as well as trade asset).

But, we can't give everyone that is producing 7X7 contracts.

 

[Jim Bob]

Have you heard him Adams anything different?

The rookies aren't replacing Okposo and Girgensons because they wont be on the 4th line.

Or at least I hope not.

I am not debating whether or not Adams will change from his previous patterns this offseason.

I am stating my opinion that sticking with that pattern will be unlikely to make the team a playoff contender in 2024-25 as they will once again be too young, too inexperienced, and thus too inconsistent.

 

[Selanne00008]

I am not debating whether or not Adams will change from his previous patterns this offseason.

I am stating my opinion that sticking with that pattern will be unlikely to make the team a playoff contender in 2024-25 as they will once again be too young, too inexperienced, and thus too inconsistent.

Can't help but agree. But I have a bit of PTSD from Tim Murray trying to fast track a team build. I mean heck, Dahlin is only 23 years old, that's crazy and doesn't turn 24 until April. His PRIME years are still 3-7 years away.

Look at Reinhardt in Florida. Jut turned 28 and just the last two years started becoming a PPG + player. Mitts is also a good example of development time.

Guys like Quinn, Peterka, Benson, Savoie, Cozens, Kulich, Dahlin. Average age of this group is like 20.

This team is YOUNG, and could be Younger next year.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Can't help but agree. But I have a bit of PTSD from Tim Murray trying to fast track a team build. I mean heck, Dahlin is only 23 years old, that's crazy and doesn't turn 24 until April. His PRIME years are still 3-7 years away.

Look at Reinhardt in Florida. Jut turned 28 and just the last two years started becoming a PPG + player. Mitts is also a good example of development time.

Guys like Quinn, Peterka, Benson, Savoie, Cozens, Kulich, Dahlin. Average age of this group is like 20.

This team is YOUNG, and could be Younger next year.

Which is why we need to move some of the prospects for established vets.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Which is why we need to move some of the prospects for established vets.

Another option is to move some of the current prospects for different prospects.

Winnipeg would be a good trading partner. They've got prospects like Barlow and McGroarty in the pipeline. Those are the types of forwards the Sabres don't have.

I'm not saying directly that the Sabres should trade with Winnipeg, just using them as an option to illustrate the point.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Another option is to move some of the current prospects for different prospects.

Winnipeg would be a good trading partner. They've got prospects like Barlow and McGroarty in the pipeline. Those are the types of forwards the Sabres don't have.

I'm not saying directly that the Sabres should trade with Winnipeg, just using them as an option to illustrate the point.

Do trades like that ever happen? Nylander for Jokiharju was the only one I could remember. That was also two guys that both organizations moved on from rather than two teams swapping great prospects.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Do trades like that ever happen? Nylander for Jokiharju was the only one I could remember. That was also two guys that both organizations moved on from rather than two teams swapping great prospects.

I don't remember one, but that's not to say it couldn't happen.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

Do trades like that ever happen? Nylander for Jokiharju was the only one I could remember. That was also two guys that both organizations moved on from rather than two teams swapping great prospects.

That's what I think too. With the prevalence of NMC/NTCs, the dearth of prospect-for-prospect trades, and the inability to sign quality free agents to Buffalo, I almost think that they have to start drafting for need. The Strbak acquisition is a solid example - he may not have been the highest value prospect at the pick, but he filled a definite need.

I would probably consider a hybrid approach, or maybe we name it the Mullet:
Draft BPA in the first round with their top 10 pick, then go wild on the back side of the draft for players that show potential for 2 way play and/or physical play. You usually want players that still show offensive ability to have a chance of making it at the NHL level, but we need to fill some future needs,

 

[TehDoak]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I hope Adams is not stubbornly attached to the idea that growth from within is the way for this team to take the next step. Adding two rookies to replace guys like Okposo and Girgensons is not the way to elevate this roster to a playoff contender.

Given the volume of work needed to reshape this from a skilled roster into a winning roster, I'm actually scared to see him try given what we've seen so far out of him as an evaluator of talent. His biggest acquisitions when not giving up superior talent have been:

Hall, Clifton, and Erik Johnson.

All of this pick ups have been flaming bags of turd.

All of them have been at the behest of his coaches.

Adams hasn't shown the ability to evaluate a roster, address a need in meaningful way, or maximize salary cap space.

He simply isn't a good GM unless he falls ass backwards into a player becoming a top line player like Thompson did.

Last year, every single thing broke perfect and we still missed the playoffs.

Pretty please, get a real GM in here before he does something stupider than he already has.

 

[Tatanka]

That's what I think too. With the prevalence of NMC/NTCs, the dearth of prospect-for-prospect trades, and the inability to sign quality free agents to Buffalo, I almost think that they have to start drafting for need. The Strbak acquisition is a solid example - he may not have been the highest value prospect at the pick, but he filled a definite need.

I would probably consider a hybrid approach, or maybe we name it the Mullet:
Draft BPA in the first round with their top 10 pick, then go wild on the back side of the draft for players that show potential for 2 way play and/or physical play. You usually want players that still show offensive ability to have a chance of making it at the NHL level, but we need to fill some future needs,

Or…you can do things like the rest of the league does. Use your first, trade your second and thirds for help now. Are you getting top line players? Hell no, but you can add the types needed to win over a long season. You don’t draft third or fourth liners you sign them or trade for them.

Given the volume of work needed to reshape this from a skilled roster into a winning roster, I'm actually scared to see him try given what we've seen so far out of him as an evaluator of talent. His biggest acquisitions when not giving up superior talent have been:

Hall, Clifton, and Erik Johnson.

All of this pick ups have been flaming bags of turd.

All of them have been at the behest of his coaches.

Adams hasn't shown the ability to evaluate a roster, address a need in meaningful way, or maximize salary cap space.

He simply isn't a good GM unless he falls ass backwards into a player becoming a top line player like Thompson did.

Last year, every single thing broke perfect and we still missed the playoffs.

Pretty please, get a real GM in here before he does something stupider than he already has.

Greenway was a solid pick up. Gotta give credit there.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

His biggest acquisitions when not giving up superior talent have been:

Is any GM supposed to have a list of shiny acquisitions under those circumstances? You left out Greenway, fwiw.

It's clear that KA is either unwilling or handcuffed about making a big trade, especially involving picks/prospects. No matter what anyone says about EJ and Clifton, they are still a huge improvement over Bryson/Clague/Pilut/Fitz. The perspective you take is just ultra negatively skewed. I'm not a big KA fan but I can be fair at least.

There's reasons to be critical, but calling out the EJ and Clifton signings shouldn't be near the top of the list.

 

[OkimLom]

Is any GM supposed to have a list of shiny acquisitions under those circumstances? You left out Greenway, fwiw.

It's clear that KA is either unwilling or handcuffed about making a big trade, especially involving picks/prospects. No matter what anyone says about EJ and Clifton, they are still a huge improvement over Bryson/Clague/Pilut/Fitz. The perspective you take is just ultra negatively skewed. I'm not a big KA fan but I can be fair at least.

There's reasons to be critical, but calling out the EJ and Clifton signings shouldn't be near the top of the list.

Except, Clifton wasn't exactly looked at as a bottom pairing replacement upgrade, but of a top 4 upgrade.

Unless you think a 3.33 million aav for 3 years is a wise investment to address a weakness in the bottom pairing which is what it looks it will be. At least with EJ it was known he was bottom pairing upgrade, and only signed for one year.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Except, Clifton wasn't exactly looked at as a bottom pairing replacement upgrade, but of a top 4 upgrade.

Unless you think a 3.33 million aav for 3 years is a wise investment to address a weakness in the bottom pairing which is what it looks it will be. At least with EJ it was known he was bottom pairing upgrade, and only signed for one year.

Some fans looked at him like a top 4 upgrade. I don't think the organization ever mentioned him as a top 4 guy.

3M was about the going rate for bottom pair d men in FA.

Clifton, Schenn, Cole, Mikkola, Holl, Soucy, Dumoulin, and Gudas all got around that AAV.

 

[TehDoak]

Greenway was a solid pick up. Gotta give credit there.

2 seasons post Eichel trade he's made one good acquisition of a bottom 6 forward despite mountains of cap space and a haul of draft picks from moving your best players?

Hardly a ringing endorsement.

Is any GM supposed to have a list of shiny acquisitions under those circumstances? You left out Greenway, fwiw.

I mean, when you have 5 1st round picks in two years with no cap constraints and you use every single one of them on prospects rather than improving your roster in the short and medium term, it's managerial malpractice. Especially when you were spending below the cap floor.

I could understand in 2021 when you were waiting on the Eichel return before spending picks, but in 2022 when you had 3 1sts, there is no way you can legit use all 3. You have to invest in the now rather than continually punt seasons. It was dumb then and its still dumb now.

It's clear that KA is either unwilling or handcuffed about making a big trade, especially involving picks/prospects. No matter what anyone says about EJ and Clifton, they are still a huge improvement over Bryson/Clague/Pilut/Fitz. The perspective you take is just ultra negatively skewed. I'm not a big KA fan but I can be fair at least.

What is he handcuffed by? Even if the owner says "hey don't spend above the cap floor", he could have easily added an impact player and not spent stupid money on bottom line/bottom pairing players.

There's reasons to be critical, but calling out the EJ and Clifton signings shouldn't be near the top of the list.

In a vacuum, those d signings aren't THAT bad. Clifton is an overpayment sure. Signing them both certainly didn't make any sense though.

The problem is when those are you only two significant signings to improve the team in two years. And then they don't work out nearly as well as you hoped.

It's one thing to swing and miss on some signings.

It's quite another to swing and miss on your ONLY signings.