Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[BFLO]

Wtf

 

[TehDoak]

He traded the big three players and now letting the prospects develop

That hasn't worked though. The issue with the current team is that key roles aren't filled.

He traded Risto and Reinhart at 21 draft, Eichel traded in early 21/22 season. when exactly did he know he was sitting on 5 1sts?

He had 4 1sts before the end of the 21 draft and he knew he was going to trade Eichel. It doesn't take an advanced degree.

he likely consider trades but GMs were trying to take advantage of him.

I don't get this reasoning at all. What's he supposed to do, just sit on the sidelines because other GMs are meanie heads?

Who should he had signed and for how long?

I'm not playing this game. It turns this discussion to arguing over specific players rather than the fact Adams hasn't done anything, the argument becomes "Oh see he COULDN'T HAVE SIGNED ANYONE".

he saw a team go 90+ pts sad you blame the signings for this season?

Finishing 18th in the league isn't an achievement. Especially when you had multiple players with career years and minimal injuries.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

Looking at cap friendly I learned a few things. First, I was thinking where are all these prospects going to fit in? But, most of the following could be assumed: VO is gone (traded at deadline?) by end of year, Okposo and Girgenson are most likely gone by summer, Krebs could also be out.

For some reason I didn't realize Mitts is a RFA after this year. So, I guess that's a silver lining of sorts. Not sure what to do with mitts and what his value is (salary as well as trade asset).

But, we can't give everyone that is producing 7X7 contracts.

With the benefit of hindsight I’d feel better if Cozens and Power got bridge deals, leaving more money for Mitts and JJP. Maybe throw Quinn in as a maybe.

I think both of those deals could bite us in the next season or 2. The game Mitts and JJP are playing is more important to this team than Cozens and Power. We’re crossing our fingers that Cozens becomes Mitts some day

 

[Reddawg]

With the benefit of hindsight I’d feel better if Cozens and Power got bridge deals, leaving more money for Mitts and JJP.

Yeah...hindsight doesn't account for how much better Cozens and Power might be playing if they didn't already have their long term paychecks contractually secured. It's set in stone that players perform better in their contract years.

 

[BB79]

The "Stanley Cup" they're referring to is some brand of coffee tumbler / thermos that is branded with the Starbucks coffee logo, and available at Target. I think. There are videos online about the phenomenon but I haven't been interested enough to really get into it.

Edit: Here you go...

Pink Stanley Quencher Starbucks cup release sparks mayhem at Target stores

Ahh, ok, had no idea what he was talking about

 

[Djp]

That hasn't worked though. The issue with the current team is that key roles aren't filled.

this started 2+ yrs ago. A rebuild takes time.

He had 4 1sts before the end of the 21 draft and he knew he was going to trade Eichel. It doesn't take an advanced degree.

he had 3.

I don't get this reasoning at all. What's he supposed to do, just sit on the sidelines because other GMs are meanie heads?

you want him unloading high prospects and picks on short term garbage thst won’t be there in 2-3 yrs.

I'm not playing this game. It turns this discussion to arguing over specific players rather than the fact Adams hasn't done anything, the argument becomes "Oh see he COULDN'T HAVE SIGNED ANYONE".



Finishing 18th in the league isn't an achievement. Especially when you had multiple players with career years and minimal injuries.

 

[sabremike]

With the benefit of hindsight I’d feel better if Cozens and Power got bridge deals, leaving more money for Mitts and JJP. Maybe throw Quinn in as a maybe.

I think both of those deals could bite us in the next season or 2. The game Mitts and JJP are playing is more important to this team than Cozens and Power. We’re crossing our fingers that Cozens becomes Mitts some day

Given we bridge deal'd a guy on pace to score 50 goals and the reigning Vezina winner out of town you would think people would recoil at the thought of repeating those horrible and costly mistakes the way Dracula would if served garlic bread.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

Given we bridge deal'd a guy on pace to score 50 goals and the reigning Vezina winner out of town you would think people would recoil at the thought of repeating those horrible and costly mistakes the way Dracula would if served garlic bread.

Maybe, just maybe, the problem isn’t the bridge deal or the long term extension themselves. Maybe it’s the deciding when to use each appropriately and for the correct players.

I prefaced my statement with the benefit of hindsight, so I’m not taking Adams over the coals for this. But I do have serious concerns with the roster construction as a whole.

 

[Steddy33]

What does VO fetch at the deadline? Squeeze a 3rd rounder out of it?

There's a better chance of him on the waiver wire. If Olofsson had any value at all he'd be long gone. He's not an NHL player

 

[debaser66]

What does VO fetch at the deadline? Squeeze a 3rd rounder out of it?

7th or future considerations

 

[Jim Bob]

Given the volume of work needed to reshape this from a skilled roster into a winning roster, I'm actually scared to see him try given what we've seen so far out of him as an evaluator of talent. His biggest acquisitions when not giving up superior talent have been:

Hall, Clifton, and Erik Johnson.

All of this pick ups have been flaming bags of turd.

All of them have been at the behest of his coaches.

Adams hasn't shown the ability to evaluate a roster, address a need in meaningful way, or maximize salary cap space.

He simply isn't a good GM unless he falls ass backwards into a player becoming a top line player like Thompson did.

Last year, every single thing broke perfect and we still missed the playoffs.

Pretty please, get a real GM in here before he does something stupider than he already has.

It is interesting that you left out the Greenway trade that has been a positive addition and what the roster needed. Also a guy they went after at the behest of the head coach.

UFA is the worst path to building a quality roster. So, to look at three UFA additions (and you can make it 4 with Comrie) and say that is a sign he can't add quality players, then you aren't looking at it right, IMO.

Adams was in discussions to add Chychrun. If he had been willing to part with Savoie or Kulich to get him, I think people would have liked that move. The biggest thing standing in Adams' way is his slow build from within through drafting and developing is the major barrier to me.

If he changes that mindset, I think he has the right people in the building to make good decisions. The big challenge then becomes who other GMs are shopping.

 

[truthbluth]

We often hear,
"The Sabres are the youngest team in the NHL," but I thought I'd put some context to it. The Winnipeg Jets, on a heater and sitting no 1 in the NHL, have exactly one regular player on the team as young or younger than Rasmus Dahlin. The Sabres have 9 (not including RJ), or 45% of the on ice roster. Of you make the cutoff Alex Tuch, a veteran at this point, the Sabres add 6 more for 75% of the on ice roster. For the Jets it's just 4, for 25%. Being that young is certainly going to effect consistency. Not an excuse, just an observation.

 

[SabresFan26]

We often hear,
"The Sabres are the youngest team in the NHL," but I thought I'd put some context to it. The Winnipeg Jets, on a heater and sitting no 1 in the NHL, have exactly one regular player on the team as young or younger than Rasmus Dahlin. The Sabres have 9 (not including RJ), or 45% of the on ice roster. Of you make the cutoff Alex Tuch, a veteran at this point, the Sabres add 6 more for 75% of the on ice roster. For the Jets it's just 4, for 25%. Being that young is certainly going to effect consistency. Not an excuse, just an observation.

Teams in the college football playoff aren’t relying on freshman to beat seniors. It’s always an advantage to have experience.

You think the Sabres would learn.

There's a better chance of him on the waiver wire. If Olofsson had any value at all he'd be long gone. He's not an NHL player

Certainly not at his salary. Making over 4 million dollars, Buffalo would have to eat half the salary just for a team to take him.

 

[BFLO]

It is interesting that you left out the Greenway trade that has been a positive addition and what the roster needed. Also a guy they went after at the behest of the head coach.

UFA is the worst path to building a quality roster. So, to look at three UFA additions (and you can make it 4 with Comrie) and say that is a sign he can't add quality players, then you aren't looking at it right, IMO.

Adams was in discussions to add Chychrun. If he had been willing to part with Savoie or Kulich to get him, I think people would have liked that move. The biggest thing standing in Adams' way is his slow build from within through drafting and developing is the major barrier to me.

If he changes that mindset, I think he has the right people in the building to make good decisions. The big challenge then becomes who other GMs are shopping.

I'm not Doak, so I can't speak for him.

But I agree with you that Greenway is a positive addition. Although a minor one. The trade and Greenway's value aren't great though. $3mil aav is on the high end for a 3rd/4th line tweener. MIN was cap strapped and surely were looking to dump Greenway after demoting him to the 4th line. A 2nd + 5th under those circumstances seems like bad value. It's not a big deal, but it does kinda stink like a Murray or Botts trade where they just pissed value away. The difference is Adams has only made 1 trade so far, instead of 6+.

I think GMs need to be good at all paths to build a quality roster. UFA, Trades, Drafting and development. Adams has basically ignored UFA and trades to fill the holes on the roster. I'm not trying to short change Adams for the value he got for Eichel, Reinhart and Risto, he did well on those trades. I'm saying he hasn't made trades to fill the gaping holes on the roster.

Gavrikov and Ekholm were available too, it's not just Chychrun.

Gavrikov went for a pittance, considering the Kings were also dumping Quick's cap hit on CBJ and picking up Korpisalo.

Columbus Blue Jackets Acquire: Jonathan Quick · $5,800,000 2023 1st round pick (LAK - #22 - Oliver Bonk) [Conditional]* 2024 3rd round pick (LAK) *Conditions: If the Kings do not qualify for the 2023 playoffs, CBJ will instead receive: 2023 2nd round pick (LAK) & 2024 2nd round pick (LAK) Result: Kings qualified for the 2023 playoffs. Columbus will receive the 2023 1st round pick Sum: $5,800,000 Change: +$1,700,000

Los Angeles Kings Acquire: Joonas Korpisalo · $1,300,000 Vladislav Gavrikov · $2,800,000 Sum: $4,100,000 Change: -$1,700,000

Ekholm cost quite a bit more. Barrie had a lot of value at the time of the trade, and the Sabres didn't have a Barrie equivalent.

Edmonton Oilers Acquire: Mattias Ekholm ($250,000 retained - 4%) · $6,000,000 2024 6th round pick (NSH) Sum: $6,000,000 Change: +$1,500,000

Nashville Predators Acquire: Tyson Barrie · $4,500,000 Reid Schaefer · $0 (AHL/JR) 2023 1st round pick (EDM - #24 - Tanner Molendyk) 2024 4th round pick (EDM) Sum: $4,500,000 Change: -$1,500,000

I've heard all of the excuses that Arizona wanted all of our top prospects. But the final price for Chychrun is something we could have beaten without giving up Savoie, Kulich, etc. Why would the Coyotes be willing to settle for so much less from Ottawa than from Buffalo? Hint... they wouldn't. Adams wasn't willing to offer up more in draft picks than Ottawa and he used the excuse that he wouldn't part with our blue chippers to cover his ass.

Arizona Coyotes Acquire: 2023 1st round pick (OTT - #12 - Daniil But) [Conditional]* 2024 2nd round pick (WSH) [Conditional]** 2026 2nd round pick (OTT) *Conditions: Top 5 protected. If the condition is met, the pick becomes an unprotected 2024 1st round. Result: Arizona receives the 2023 pick **Conditions: If OTT makes it to the 2023 Eastern Conference Final, the pick becomes a 2024 1st round top 10 protected. If the pick is top 10, the pick becomes OTT 2025 1st round (unprotected) Result: Arizona receives the 2024 2nd round pick Sum: $0 Change: -$4,600,000

Ottawa Senators Acquire: Jakob Chychrun · $4,600,000 Sum: $4,600,000 Change: +$4,600,000

 

[sabremike]

We often hear,
"The Sabres are the youngest team in the NHL," but I thought I'd put some context to it. The Winnipeg Jets, on a heater and sitting no 1 in the NHL, have exactly one regular player on the team as young or younger than Rasmus Dahlin. The Sabres have 9 (not including RJ), or 45% of the on ice roster. Of you make the cutoff Alex Tuch, a veteran at this point, the Sabres add 6 more for 75% of the on ice roster. For the Jets it's just 4, for 25%. Being that young is certainly going to effect consistency. Not an excuse, just an observation.

Which is why teams who ice lineups with almost nothing but kids are either intentionally trying to lose for lottery position or run by morons intent on wrecking said kids by tossing them out to get their teeth kicked in by a nightly basis.

 

[sabremike]

I'm not Doak, so I can't speak for him.

But I agree with you that Greenway is a positive addition. Although a minor one. The trade and Greenway's value aren't great though. $3mil aav is on the high end for a 3rd/4th line tweener. MIN was cap strapped and surely were looking to dump Greenway after demoting him to the 4th line. A 2nd + 5th under those circumstances seems like bad value. It's not a big deal, but it does kinda stink like a Murray or Botts trade where they just pissed value away. The difference is Adams has only made 1 trade so far, instead of 6+.

I think GMs need to be good at all paths to build a quality roster. UFA, Trades, Drafting and development. Adams has basically ignored UFA and trades to fill the holes on the roster. I'm not trying to short change Adams for the value he got for Eichel, Reinhart and Risto, he did well on those trades. I'm saying he hasn't made trades to fill the gaping holes on the roster.

Gavrikov and Ekholm were available too, it's not just Chychrun.

Gavrikov went for a pittance, considering the Kings were also dumping Quick's cap hit on CBJ and picking up Korpisalo.

Columbus Blue Jackets Acquire: Jonathan Quick · $5,800,000 2023 1st round pick (LAK - #22 - Oliver Bonk) [Conditional]* 2024 3rd round pick (LAK) *Conditions: If the Kings do not qualify for the 2023 playoffs, CBJ will instead receive: 2023 2nd round pick (LAK) & 2024 2nd round pick (LAK) Result: Kings qualified for the 2023 playoffs. Columbus will receive the 2023 1st round pick Sum: $5,800,000 Change: +$1,700,000

Los Angeles Kings Acquire: Joonas Korpisalo · $1,300,000 Vladislav Gavrikov · $2,800,000 Sum: $4,100,000 Change: -$1,700,000

Ekholm cost quite a bit more. Barrie had a lot of value at the time of the trade, and the Sabres didn't have a Barrie equivalent.

Edmonton Oilers Acquire: Mattias Ekholm ($250,000 retained - 4%) · $6,000,000 2024 6th round pick (NSH) Sum: $6,000,000 Change: +$1,500,000

Nashville Predators Acquire: Tyson Barrie · $4,500,000 Reid Schaefer · $0 (AHL/JR) 2023 1st round pick (EDM - #24 - Tanner Molendyk) 2024 4th round pick (EDM) Sum: $4,500,000 Change: -$1,500,000

I've heard all of the excuses that Arizona wanted all of our top prospects. But the final price for Chychrun is something we could have beaten without giving up Savoie, Kulich, etc. Why would the Coyotes be willing to settle for so much less from Ottawa than from Buffalo? Hint... they wouldn't. Adams wasn't willing to offer up more in draft picks than Ottawa and he used the excuse that he wouldn't part with our blue chippers to cover his ass.

Arizona Coyotes Acquire: 2023 1st round pick (OTT - #12 - Daniil But) [Conditional]* 2024 2nd round pick (WSH) [Conditional]** 2026 2nd round pick (OTT) *Conditions: Top 5 protected. If the condition is met, the pick becomes an unprotected 2024 1st round. Result: Arizona receives the 2023 pick **Conditions: If OTT makes it to the 2023 Eastern Conference Final, the pick becomes a 2024 1st round top 10 protected. If the pick is top 10, the pick becomes OTT 2025 1st round (unprotected) Result: Arizona receives the 2024 2nd round pick Sum: $0 Change: -$4,600,000

Ottawa Senators Acquire: Jakob Chychrun · $4,600,000 Sum: $4,600,000 Change: +$4,600,000

In general I agree but as pointed out earlier the first thought of any GM dealing with our organization is "How can we take these gullible rubes for all they are worth".

 

[Tatanka]

I am somewhere in the middle on this. I firmly believe you cannot keep building for a future that never comes. Particularly when a team has a penchant for drafting similar types of players. I also firmly believe that you take the best player available as a means to maximize the value of a draft asset if you make the selection.

But you don’t develop bottom 6 players you acquire them. Hopefully they are experienced players that already know how to play in the NHL. That leaves fewer openings in the top 6/4. Why do I believe this? Because it is the way it has been since the league expanded beyond 6. However, picks have a date certain expiration. Prospects can’t be kept in the minors forever. The roster and contract limits inhibit the ability to hoard.

I think we are approaching the tipping point where we have too much value in the pipeline that will begin to diminish in value. Some of that is due to locking in the wrong players long term. But the idea that other teams are trying to take advantage of Buffalo with exorbitant asks, is not quite how it works. If a player of interest becomes available the other team looks at your stock and determines what from it is sufficient motivation for them to move their player. They don’t say your number one prospect is better than team Y’s so we will take your number two. They set the price. The idea can’t make a move bc the price is too high is nonsense. Yes there is a possibility a prospect flourishes with a new team. So what? As long as you get the piece you need now, and in the short term future it is how it works. I share Tehdoaks hesitancy as I don’t think KA has the experience nor the staff to manage the glut in the pipeline to maximum advantage on the big club. I also get staying ahead of the cap. But when you have a stock of prospects you are not as exposed to market forces when it comes to signing players. If a player wants more you have a replacement. If you lock them in long term, your potential replacement needs to be moved before their value diminishes.

Until the word from the organization changes from players who want to be here, to players who help us win games, I think minimal changes. The idea of building a 1930’s Yankee dynasty is fairytale stuff. Free agency, cap, revenue sharing all point toward shorter windows of contention and the need to act decisively within those windows. And every team, I mean every one benefits from organic growth to the same extent as any other. There best players will grow at the same rate as ours. Zero sum game. What is needed is identifying situations where a team is willing to realize their window is closing and deal futures for developed players that won’t necessarily keep that window from closing.

I do not think the current regime has the chops to be successful in the shorter window environment. I also do not think there is any pressure for on ice performance improvement. They have sold the idea of some mythical future date to compete, they have started to believe it. Sorry for the long winded post.

 

[Beerz]

Given we bridge deal'd a guy on pace to score 50 goals and the reigning Vezina winner out of town you would think people would recoil at the thought of repeating those horrible and costly mistakes the way Dracula would if served garlic bread.

The guy on pace for 50 goals had a tendency to not show up until December... and is now playing for his last real contract

 

[HOOats]

Which is why teams who ice lineups with almost nothing but kids are either intentionally trying to lose for lottery position or run by morons intent on wrecking said kids by tossing them out to get their teeth kicked in by a nightly basis.

Fun and dismissive to say I'm sure, but last year's youngest team totally invalidates that dichotomy. Lottery was no consideration and they were the teeth-kickers more often than not.

Then Adams attempted to fortify the team with vets, getting rebuffed by Pesce and god knows who else. They fell back on one year of EJ and three of Clifton, with Greenway also counting as an 23-24 acquisition for me. It was a reasonable approach to injecting experience and grit while putting zero strain on the high-end youth build underway here in terms of cap or futures. Would I have liked one more piece like a Hathaway over a ZG? Sure, but that's wouldn't be moving the needle on this season imo.

It hasn't worked so far due to a combination of lousy coaching especially on the responsibilities of the ACs, shitty injury timing, and a handful of guys who summered too hard at the lake, came out fat/flat, and don't yet have the internal mettle to hold themselves accountable. Splurging assets for Meier or term for Graves wouldn't change any of that (despite the initial dopamine rush as fans) and we'd have new problems to worry about.

I'd really love to see what this group looks like with a competent PP (coach) buoying then through the inevitable ES slumps. It would do a ton of holistic good for all areas and cover plenty of the warts that come with being yes, the youngest team in hockey.

 

[HOOats]

But I agree with you that Greenway is a positive addition. Although a minor one. The trade and Greenway's value aren't great though. $3mil aav is on the high end for a 3rd/4th line tweener. MIN was cap strapped and surely were looking to dump Greenway after demoting him to the 4th line. A 2nd + 5th under those circumstances seems like bad value. It's not a big deal, but it does kinda stink like a Murray or Botts trade where they just pissed value away. The difference is Adams has only made 1 trade so far, instead of 6+

I think this is off. Greenway is a league average 3rd liner, an elite individual PKer, and a rare size/skill combo as one of the largest guys in the NHL. $3M AAV for a guy doing that in his prime is a true bargain if not an outright steal in 2024.

We all would have preferred to pay a 3rd instead of a 2nd. But we also clamor for Adams to spend from our overflowing warchest of futures to acquire pieces that fit the build mid- to long-term. Greenway was an obvious on-ice and culture fit, and I imagine it was and remains a slam dunk in Adams' eyes. The fact that it ended up being the last pick of the 2nd makes it a 360° tomahawk.

 

[BFLO]

I think this is off. Greenway is a league average 3rd liner with, an elite individual PKer, and a rare size/skill combo as one of the largest guys in the NHL. $3M AAV for a guy doing that in his prime is a true bargain if not an outright steal in 2024.

We all would have preferred to pay a 3rd instead of a 2nd. But we also clammor for Adams to spend from our overflowing warchest of futures to acquire pieces that fit the build mid- to long-term. Greenway was an obvious on-ice and culture fit, and I imagine it was and remains a slam dunk in Adams' eyes. The fact that it ended up being the last pick of the 2nd makes it a 360° tomahawk.

True bargain? Steal? Really? Greenway is a fine player, but he's hardly a steal or a bargain.

Both of these players were acquired at last seasons trade deadline.

Greenway 2nd + 5th + $3m aav

Lazar 4th + $1m aav

 

[HOOats]

True bargain? Steal? Really? Greenway is a fine player, but he's hardly a steal or a bargain.

Both of these players were acquired at last seasons trade deadline.

Greenway 2nd + 5th + $3m aav

Lazar 4th + $1m aav

View attachment 797289

View attachment 797291

Yes a bargain, $3M is nothing today. Not sure how anyone can watch Greenway bossing the corners sending passes to the slot like no one else on the team and think he's not uniquely valuable to us. Without his PKing before injury, we might be the Sharks right now.

I'm sure Lazar's outlier has nothing to do with coaching. Would you ship out Greenway straight up for the chance to bring Lazar back to Buffalo?

PS. Anyone interested in swapping Mitts and Cozens on lines? Mitts needs some scorers to set up and DC might start scoring with a cerebral connector like Benson and a retriever like Greenway.

 

[Mattilaus]

We keep decrying the Cozens deal as being premature or bad but almost everyone (on the whole of HFboards, not just out forum) saw this as an excellent deal for a 21 year old coming off the campaign he had. Hind sight is 20/20. The deal looks meh right now but i liked it when it was signed and still think it was the right move at the time. Power, they could have waited.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

True bargain? Steal? Really? Greenway is a fine player, but he's hardly a steal or a bargain.

Both of these players were acquired at last seasons trade deadline.

Greenway 2nd + 5th + $3m aav

Lazar 4th + $1m aav

View attachment 797289

View attachment 797291

Why are you comparing their metrics on their new teams and not before they were traded?

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

I'm not Doak, so I can't speak for him.

But I agree with you that Greenway is a positive addition. Although a minor one. The trade and Greenway's value aren't great though. $3mil aav is on the high end for a 3rd/4th line tweener. MIN was cap strapped and surely were looking to dump Greenway after demoting him to the 4th line. A 2nd + 5th under those circumstances seems like bad value. It's not a big deal, but it does kinda stink like a Murray or Botts trade where they just pissed value away. The difference is Adams has only made 1 trade so far, instead of 6+.

I think GMs need to be good at all paths to build a quality roster. UFA, Trades, Drafting and development. Adams has basically ignored UFA and trades to fill the holes on the roster. I'm not trying to short change Adams for the value he got for Eichel, Reinhart and Risto, he did well on those trades. I'm saying he hasn't made trades to fill the gaping holes on the roster.

Gavrikov and Ekholm were available too, it's not just Chychrun.

Gavrikov went for a pittance

Ekholm cost quite a bit more

I've heard all of the excuses that Arizona wanted all of our top prospects. But the final price for Chychrun is something we could have beaten without giving up Savoie, Kulich, etc. Why would the Coyotes be willing to settle for so much less from Ottawa than from Buffalo?

This "pittance" you mention or "we could have beaten without giving up Savoie/Kulich" would have cost Benson. I'm not sure why you don't mention that. We would have lost one of the most promising young guys in the league for a vet d man who would have made a minimal impact in the short term.