Roster Talk: Nearing the 20 game mark

[deeshamrock]

They didn't specify if that was what the kings were offering or that was what kopitar was for but if the kings offered that and he isn't accepting, I think he is gone. I'm kind of shocked the kings want to sign him for that long at that rate. Oh well, I'd hate to see kopitar play with anyone else so hopefully they do sign him.

That' s the impression I got when I read his tweet, it's what the Kings are offering , he then goes onto explain that if they lowered to 7 yrs, he'd get 11 M per.

I didn['t listen to his podcast but there is a link to it where that along with trade scenarios are mentioned.

http://mayorsmanor.com/2015/11/free-replay-hoven-on-nhl-radio-talking-la-kings-trade-scenarios/

 

[KINGS17]

I hope Dean is not offering Kopitar an 8-year deal with an AAV of $9.75M. That would make him ridiculously overpaid. It's not like he didn't get paid on his last deal.

I don't like the Brown contract, but at least I understand what Dean was thinking on that one. The 7-year, $11M AAV is worse than the 8-year deal. If this is the best that can be done, just trade him and get on with it.

 

[kingsboy11]

That' s the impression I got when I read his tweet, it's what the Kings are offering , he then goes onto explain that if they lowered to 7 yrs, he'd get 11 M per.

I didn['t listen to his podcast but there is a link to it where that along with trade scenarios are mentioned.

http://mayorsmanor.com/2015/11/free-replay-hoven-on-nhl-radio-talking-la-kings-trade-scenarios/

He didn't mention anything about Kopitar's contract. Mostly about trade scenarios trying to get a top 4 D-man.

 

[YP44]

​

I hope Dean is not offering Kopitar an 8-year deal with an AAV of $9.75M. That would make him ridiculously overpaid. It's not like he didn't get paid on his last deal.

I don't like the Brown contract, but at least I understand what Dean was thinking on that one. The 7-year, $11M AAV is worse than the 8-year deal. If this is the best that can be done, just trade him and get on with it.

The brown deal made sense only because the cap was predicted to go much much higher than it has. Looking at % of cap Brown deal would have made sense had it risen.
Like it or not Malkin, Kane, Toews have set the bar for Kopitar. If that ends up being the deal the term would be the biggest issue I would have

 

[Ron*]

FWIW.....

The Mayor John Hoven ‏@mayorNHL 1h1 hour ago
Update on Kopitar talks - told by multi sources close to situation, currently around 8yrs @ $9.75M (remember, can only get 7yrs on open mkt)
------------------------
8 x $9.75M = $78M, would take caphit in excess of $11M on a 7 year deal to match total dollars.

They didn't specify if that was what the kings were offering or that was what kopitar was for but if the kings offered that and he isn't accepting, I think he is gone. I'm kind of shocked the kings want to sign him for that long at that rate. Oh well, I'd hate to see kopitar play with anyone else so hopefully they do sign him.

 

[KopitarFAN]

They didn't specify if that was what the kings were offering or that was what kopitar was for but if the kings offered that and he isn't accepting, I think he is gone. I'm kind of shocked the kings want to sign him for that long at that rate. Oh well, I'd hate to see kopitar play with anyone else so hopefully they do sign him.

Either way, it's a lot closer to the perceived median, a few weeks ago Dreger had said that the two sides were around $10.5M and $9M. So that means either Dean has come up from $9M or Pat Brisson has come off $10.5M, doesn't matter which, progress.

 

[KINGS17]

​

The brown deal made sense only because the cap was predicted to go much much higher than it has. Looking at % of cap Brown deal would have made sense had it risen.
Like it or not Malkin, Kane, Toews have set the bar for Kopitar. If that ends up being the deal the term would be the biggest issue I would have

Why? The cap was expected to continue to increase at a fairly substantial rate when Toews and Kane were signed.

Kopitar is on the decline. That is obvious. There is no reason to use the Kane or Toews contracts as comps. If Dean is allowing that, he is screwing the pooch big time on this deal.

 

[YP44]

Why? The cap was expected to continue to increase at a fairly substantial rate when Toews and Kane were signed.

Kopitar is on the decline. That is obvious. There is no reason to use the Kane or Toews contracts as comps. If Dean is allowing that, he is screwing the pooch big time on this deal.

I agree but Kopitar's agent likely does not, and bottom line is someone on the open market would give him more on a 7 year deal.

 

[Omni Owl]

Guys I have a solution to our blueline woes:

Anton ****ing Babchuk.

 

[YP44]

Guys I have a solution to our blueline woes:

Anton ****ing Babchuk.

nailed it...sutter brought him to Calgary if I remember correctly

 

[KINGS17]

I agree but Kopitar's agent likely does not, and bottom line is someone on the open market would give him more on a 7 year deal.

So then, as unpleasant as it is, Dean's course of action is becoming quite obvious. Let someone on the "open market" make a big mistake.

Is this team a Stanley Cup contender with Kopitar playing the way he has played over the last 100 games or so?

If Dean thinks the answer is no, why would significant improvment in Kopitar's play be expected by the time the playoffs roll around? I have my doubts and this is a real tough call for Dean to make.

What I am seeing on the ice from Kopitar this year is not worth an AAV of $9.5M next season, much less 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 seasons from now.

 

[Omni Owl]

nailed it...sutter brought him to Calgary if I remember correctly

I was semi joking but honestly wouldn't mind if it happened. From what I remember he had an absolute bomb from the point, but defensively I'm not sure.

 

[YP44]

So then, as unpleasant as it is, Dean's course of action is becoming quite obvious. Let someone on the "open market" make a big mistake.

Is this team a Stanley Cup contender with Kopitar playing the way he has played over the last 100 games or so?

If Dean thinks the answer is no, why would significant improvment in Kopitar's play be expected by the time the playoffs roll around? I have my doubts and this is a real tough call for Dean to make.

What I am seeing on the ice from Kopitar this year is not worth an AAV of $9.5M next season, much less 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 seasons from now.

the thing is once yo uget into the playoffs anything can happen and YES i feel this team 9with a little help on the backend) can compete for the cup. If we remove Kopitar than I question if the team is a playoff team. Some question Shore as a #3..imagine him as a #2?

 

[YP44]

I was semi joking but honestly wouldn't mind if it happened. From what I remember he had an absolute bomb from the point, but defensively I'm not sure.

oh god...no pretend you were fully joking. he was terrible in Calgary and the league has only gotten faster. He had a great shot (was called Anton Bomb) but it never hit the net. I would rather have Greene any day of the week.

 

[KingsFan7824]

When taking everything into account, it's the toughest contract Lombardi has had to do.

 

[deeshamrock]

When taking everything into account, it's the toughest contract Lombardi has had to do.

It is and I was surprised he agreed to the 8 yr term so readily. Given the contract starts at age 29, that's awful.
And it will affect their choices, trades and signings, capwise, going forward.
I love Kopi but I can't see giving him that 9.75 for that long. I'm guessing DL wanted to stay under 9 but Kopi's camp held firm.

 

[KINGS17]

the thing is once yo uget into the playoffs anything can happen and YES i feel this team 9with a little help on the backend) can compete for the cup. If we remove Kopitar than I question if the team is a playoff team. Some question Shore as a #3..imagine him as a #2?

Depends on what you get for him in a trade. I understand it would be a difficult task for Dean, but he might have to get creative and get a very good young defenseman in a Kopitar deal then flip one of his roster defensemen to address the center position.

There are a lot of moving parts to this problem, and immovable parts like Brown.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Gonna be an interesting roster year, with the Kopi contract, a few RFAs and guys who need to either play or leave, and defensive upheaval.

 

[123slam]

Depends on what you get for him in a trade. I understand it would be a difficult task for Dean, but he might have to get creative and get a very good young defenseman in a Kopitar deal then flip one of his roster defensemen to address the center position.

There are a lot of moving parts to this problem, and immovable parts like Brown.

Not trading Kopi for another C? I don't get why we need another defenseman.

 

[KINGS17]

Gonna be an interesting roster year, with the Kopi contract, a few RFAs and guys who need to either play or leave, and defensive upheaval.

No matter what happens this season Dean has a well-established legacy with the Kings and has changed this organization's culture for the better.

I kind of hope he is just looking at this like a complicated chess problem. He may have to sacrifice some pieces to ulitmately win. No time for sentiment this time around.

Another reason I don't want to see Kopitar with an unreasonable AAV is because Dean may have to move Brown at some point, and to do that he will have to retain some of his cap hit. Giving Kopitar more than he deserves in terms of AAV does not help that situation.

 

[KINGS17]

Not trading Kopi for another C? I don't get why we need another defenseman.

You need to read the post that you quoted more carefully. The team that wants Kopitar the most might have an abundance of depth on the blue line. If you acquire a defenseman as the major piece in a Kopitar deal, then you have to move a roster defenseman to bring in what would hopefully be a good young 2C with upside.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No matter what happens this season Dean has a well-established legacy with the Kings and has changed this organization's culture for the better.

I kind of hope he is just looking at this like a complicated chess problem. He may have to sacrifice some pieces to ulitmately win. No time for sentiment this time around.

Another reason I don't want to see Kopitar with an unreasonable AAV is because Dean may have to move Brown at some point, and to do that he will have to retain some of his cap hit. Giving Kopitar more than he deserves in terms of AAV does not help that situation.

We're getting close to the part of the story where we'll see if Dean has learned from what he alleges to have learned from. I guess one could argue he's already gone there in Williams, Mitchell, Richards to some degree, but with this team's clear deficiencies at (at least!) 3C and D, the problems aren't easily solvable. The chess analogy is apt.

Every team has issues, and ours are honestly minor provided everyone is playing close to their capabilities, but with the window slowly closing, I'm curious what DL has up his sleeve.

 

[deeshamrock]

the thing is once yo uget into the playoffs anything can happen and YES i feel this team with a little help on the backend) can compete for the cup. If we remove Kopitar than I question if the team is a playoff team. Some question Shore as a #3..imagine him as a #2?

Disagree, not with the current bottom 6, they're weak. And you don't go far in the playoffs without depth down the middle, they don't have that now.

I don't think DL has the pieces to trade for both a top D and a top 3rd line center, and from what I've read, he's hunting for a top 4 d , which will cost something going the other way ,esp since it's a seller's market.

Of course, at 3c, he might try to get a guy like Komarov, whose having a terrific year with the Leafs (7G, 11 pts) he's on the last yr of his contract and will be (probably) one o fthe pieces the Leafs will move at the deadline for draft picks. And he's only 28
He'd be a good upgrade. But centers are valued and DL won't be the only one shopping in Feb, so the price might be high.

 

[YP44]

It is and I was surprised he agreed to the 8 yr term so readily. Given the contract starts at age 29, that's awful.
And it will affect their choices, trades and signings, capwise, going forward.
I love Kopi but I can't see giving him that 9.75 for that long. I'm guessing DL wanted to stay under 9 but Kopi's camp held firm.

I am also surprised that it wold be 8 years at over $9M. I was hoping anything over 6 year in length would need to be less than $8M.
If these reports are true his contract could really hurt in 4+ years

 

[KopitarFAN]

I am also surprised that it wold be 8 years at over $9M. I was hoping anything over 6 year in length would need to be less than $8M.
If these reports are true his contract could really hurt in 4+ years

More than likely their will be more compliance buyouts after the next work stoppage (either side can opt-out after 18-19, effective 19-20), so if they needed to get out of this deal, Brown's deal or Quick's deal, they can.