Roster Speculation part XXII

[TehDoak]

This for me as well.

Anyone questioning the Sabres depth & overall quality at forward has me questioning their own sanity.

Even if Vesey doesn't sign (I still feel people are making too big a deal about hm but will happily be proven wrong) the team is stacked up front.

The 'D' on the other hand... And some people are OK with this - again very questionable.

I don't know if stacked is the right word. I would say they are on par with the other playoff teams in the east. Pittsburgh, Washington, and Tampa all have much more proven depth. There is also a decent chance that Kane doesn't play another game in a Sabre uniform, which could move the needle in the other direction.

I'd rate a fully healthy sabres squad as above average in forward depth. If Eichel puts up 80 points and Reinhart puts up 50 and Girgenson's has a strong rebound year, things could obviously tick into the excellent category.

I'd rate the D similar to you, average to below average with a pretty average prospect group on D. There's an obvious immediate need ( top pairing LHD) and long term need.

 

[Jim Bob]

This for me as well.

Anyone questioning the Sabres depth & overall quality at forward has me questioning their own sanity.

Even if Vesey doesn't sign (I still feel people are making too big a deal about hm but will happily be proven wrong) the team is stacked up front.

The 'D' on the other hand... And some people are OK with this - again very questionable.

A) I disagree with the bolded statement. They have two vets you can count on (ROR & Okposo), two great young players (Eichel & Reinhart), and then a bunch of role players, good young players, or vets with a boatload of question marks. And adding Vesey adds a rookie with promise who has 0 pro games under his belt.

That isn't what I would call stacked.

B) What decent UFA D are out there?

 

[TehDoak]

A) I disagree with the bolded statement. They have two vets you can count on (ROR & Okposo), two great young players (Eichel & Reinhart), and then a bunch of role players, good young players, or vets with a boatload of question marks. And adding Vesey adds a rookie with promise who has 0 pro games under his belt.

That isn't what I would call stacked.

B) What decent UFA D are out there?

None now. Yandle and Gologoski were both scooped off the market before Murray had a crack at them.

Fowler is still rumored to be out there.

I still think not getting Gologoski's rights were a swing and a miss, though, maybe the team wasn't prepared to go 5 years on a 31 YO d-man.

 

[Jim Bob]

None now. Yandle and Gologoski were both scooped off the market before Murray had a crack at them.

Fowler is still rumored to be out there.

I still think not getting Gologoski's rights were a swing and a miss, though, maybe the team wasn't prepared to go 5 years on a 31 YO d-man.

The point I was trying to make is that bemoaning the state of the defense to end a conversation about a newly available UFA forward makes little sense to me. There isn't a conversation worthy UFA D out there. So, let a conversation about a forward happen as it's not like the Sabres are having to make a choice over Vermette vs a LHD that would upgrade the roster.

Personally, I think Anaheim wants a massive overpayment for Fowler. If not, he would have moved by now.

 

[TehDoak]

The point I was trying to make is that bemoaning the state of the defense to end a conversation about a newly available UFA forward makes little sense to me. There isn't a conversation worthy UFA D out there. So, let a conversation about a forward happen as it's not like the Sabres are having to make a choice over Vermette vs a LHD that would upgrade the roster.

Personally, I think Anaheim wants a massive overpayment for Fowler. If not, he would have moved by now.

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/anaheim-ducks

Something is going to give at some point.

I wonder if Fowler for Kane was being discussed then Kane being stupid on draft night sent the discussion off the rails.

 

[Jim Bob]

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/anaheim-ducks

Something is going to give at some point.

I wonder if Fowler for Kane was being discussed then Kane being stupid on draft night sent the discussion off the rails.

I agree that something has got to give, but I don't think that moving Fowler is near the top of the list of ways that GMBM wants to go about resolving things unless someone gives him an offer he can't refuse.

Given their internal budget, the added $2M in salary in a Fowler for Kane deal makes me not really believe that a deal like that was ever close.

The Sabres cap situation doesn't really allow them to take on a bunch of salary either (think Fowler and Stoner for Kane).

If Ennis didn't have the concussion issues last year, he would be the better fit in a Fowler deal, IMO.

One more year on his deal and the salary is cheaper than Fowler.

 

[haseoke39]

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/anaheim-ducks

Something is going to give at some point.

I wonder if Fowler for Kane was being discussed then Kane being stupid on draft night sent the discussion off the rails.

$9M under the cap, and already at their internal cap from last year.

Still to sign: Lindholm, Rakell, and two other forwards.

Someone should take a run at Lindholm. It won't be us, but someone with the space definitely should.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Spagetti at the wall....

1st: full court press to sign Vesey. Big trip to Boston on August 14th that includes Pegula, Murray, and Bylsma. Offer max A and B bonus schedules.

2nd: patience with the next moves. All the best assets the Sabres have and might want to move need time to play, and put issues in the past. Speaking about Ennis and Kane.

3rd: Kane. After court issues are settled, send him to Vancouver for futures. Use the year-and-a-half of Kane's remaining contract to re-stock the system. I'd be OK with a 2017 2nd, 2018 2nd, Pedan, Cassels, and a cap dump (Burrows).

4th: Trade deadline moves.
- Allow Ennis to show that he's still a scorer, then send him to a top team looking to add firepower before their hopeful Cup run. Try to get a late 1st rounder in 2017.
- Franson to a playoff team for an out-year third. I'm good with a 2018 3rd.
- Sabres power-up on the blueline. Trade 2nd and Bailey for Shattenkirk.

Draft pick review:
2017: 1, 1 (Ennis), 2, 2 (MIN), 2 (VAN), 3, 3 (WSH).
2018: 1, 2, 2 (VAN), 3, 3 (Franson)

Playoff roster:
Vesey - Eichel - Fasching
Girgensons - Reinhart - Okposo
Carrier - O'Reilly - Burrows
Foligno - Larsson - Gionta

Kulikov - Ristolainen
McCabe - Shattenkirk
Gorges - Bogosian

Lehner - Nilsson

Sabres lose in the first round of the playoffs to Tampa Bay (eventual Cup winners). Great experience for a young team.

Expansion draft:
2017 2nd, 2017 3rd, Baptiste to Las Vegas to select Moulson.
Re-sign Kulikov and Shattenkirk

2017 draft: 7 picks in the first 3 rounds. BPA and re-stock the cupboards.

2017 Opening night roster: no big off-season moves. Let this team grow together.
Vesey - Eichel - Fasching
Girgensons - Reinhart - Okposo
Carrier - O'Reilly - Nylander
Foligno - Larsson - competition (Rodriguez, Cassels, Asplund, etc).
x - Deslauriers, COR

Kulikov - Ristolainen
McCabe - Shattenkirk
Guhle - Bogosian
x - Nelson

Lehner
Ullmark

 

[phosphene*]

I had a dream that Vesey was playing with the Sabres. My last hockey related dream was last spring, with us winning the lottery.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

A) I disagree with the bolded statement. They have two vets you can count on (ROR & Okposo), two great young players (Eichel & Reinhart), and then a bunch of role players, good young players, or vets with a boatload of question marks. And adding Vesey adds a rookie with promise who has 0 pro games under his belt.

That isn't what I would call stacked.

They are definitely above average with arguably more potential than any group who are currently ahead.

There are also too many players for too few spots when you think about the young guys who should be getting looked at but are not due to the depth,

Both IMO.

B) What decent UFA D are out there?

None & I never wanted them to consider any of the UFA's available from the outset (the same goes pretty much every summer to be honest).

But what I don't want to see is yet more salary & roster spots used on our forward group when there is such a glaring need at LHD.

IImagine Okposo didn't get signed - we'd have had a huge chunk of cap space which could have been used as a valuable asset in acquiring said LHD help. Now that opportunity no longer exists & is only made more worse by throwing yet more money at another F we just don't need. Now with all the Kane stuff I'm just resigned to the faint hope of offloading that POS for nothing but futures & cap space to then use said cap space (along with whatever other non core pieces) to get our LHD. THink the Ledy / Boychuk deals the Islanders pulled.

 

[DJN21]

Spagetti at the wall....

1st: full court press to sign Vesey. Big trip to Boston on August 14th that includes Pegula, Murray, and Bylsma. Offer max A and B bonus schedules.

2nd: patience with the next moves. All the best assets the Sabres have and might want to move need time to play, and put issues in the past. Speaking about Ennis and Kane.

3rd: Kane. After court issues are settled, send him to Vancouver for futures. Use the year-and-a-half of Kane's remaining contract to re-stock the system. I'd be OK with a 2017 2nd, 2018 2nd, Pedan, Cassels, and a cap dump (Burrows).

4th: Trade deadline moves.
- Allow Ennis to show that he's still a scorer, then send him to a top team looking to add firepower before their hopeful Cup run. Try to get a late 1st rounder in 2017.
- Franson to a playoff team for an out-year third. I'm good with a 2018 3rd.
- Sabres power-up on the blueline. Trade 2nd and Bailey for Shattenkirk.

Draft pick review:
2017: 1, 1 (Ennis), 2, 2 (MIN), 2 (VAN), 3, 3 (WSH).
2018: 1, 2, 2 (VAN), 3, 3 (Franson)

Playoff roster:
Vesey - Eichel - Fasching
Girgensons - Reinhart - Okposo
Carrier - O'Reilly - Burrows
Foligno - Larsson - Gionta

Kulikov - Ristolainen
McCabe - Shattenkirk
Gorges - Bogosian

Lehner - Nilsson

Sabres lose in the first round of the playoffs to Tampa Bay (eventual Cup winners). Great experience for a young team.

Expansion draft:
2017 2nd, 2017 3rd, Baptiste to Las Vegas to select Moulson.
Re-sign Kulikov and Shattenkirk

2017 draft: 7 picks in the first 3 rounds. BPA and re-stock the cupboards.

2017 Opening night roster: no big off-season moves. Let this team grow together.
Vesey - Eichel - Fasching
Girgensons - Reinhart - Okposo
Carrier - O'Reilly - Nylander
Foligno - Larsson - competition (Rodriguez, Cassels, Asplund, etc).
x - Deslauriers, COR

Kulikov - Ristolainen
McCabe - Shattenkirk
Guhle - Bogosian
x - Nelson

Lehner
Ullmark

Sabres hands down win every trade you proposed lol. Not even close to real life.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

Watching the World Junior Summer Showcase - CAN vs FIN - Babcock is there with half a dozen Leaf scouts including Mark Hunter. Babcock is relentless, Bylsma isn't chopped liver but Babcock is a major edge to Toronto in the Battle of the Rebuilds.

Now to google for the origins of 'chopped liver' as a metaphor for 2nd rate. wikipedia "chopped liver was traditionally served as a side dish rather than a main course."

 

[sfoote]

Ain't no way the Sabres are getting a1st for Ennis.

 

[Jim Bob]

None & I never wanted them to consider any of the UFA's available from the outset (the same goes pretty much every summer to be honest).

But what I don't want to see is yet more salary & roster spots used on our forward group when there is such a glaring need at LHD.

IImagine Okposo didn't get signed - we'd have had a huge chunk of cap space which could have been used as a valuable asset in acquiring said LHD help. Now that opportunity no longer exists & is only made more worse by throwing yet more money at another F we just don't need. Now with all the Kane stuff I'm just resigned to the faint hope of offloading that POS for nothing but futures & cap space to then use said cap space (along with whatever other non core pieces) to get our LHD. THink the Ledy / Boychuk deals the Islanders pulled.

A lack of cap space isn't why a Leddy/Boychuk type deal for a LHD hasn't happened yet.

The issue is that no team has traded a decent LHD for peanuts.

Maybe GMBM does it with Fowler, but I doubt it.

And signing a guy like Vermette to play 4C wouldn't impact a potential trade for Fowler. Risto's contract will.

 

[start winnin]

lol @ 2nd and Bailey for Shattenkirk

 

[Der Jaeger]

lol @ 2nd and Bailey for Shattenkirk

For a pending free agent?

Sabres hands down win every trade you proposed lol. Not even close to real life.

I don't think the Sabres make out that well in the Kane trade.

 

[gallagt01]

For a pending free agent?



I don't think the Sabres make out that well in the Kane trade.

The Sabres make out extremely well in that Kane trade.

 

[Der Jaeger]

The Sabres make out extremely well in that Kane trade.

In my original deals, reduce the Kane trade to a deal with only 1 second round pick, trade Ennis for a 2018 2nd, and up the Shattenkirk trade to the 2017 1st, Bailey, and Nelson (Yandle template)....

.... and it still doesn't take away from the 2017 opening night roster. It's all pick shuffling. It'd go from this:

2017: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3
2018: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3

to this

2017: 2, 2, 3
2018: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3

 

[sabresandcanucks]

Anyone have an issue signing Vrbata for 1 year 2 million or less to play on Eichel's wing should Vesey go elsewhere?

Vrbata is soft, but he can still skate well and has an excellent release. He put up 32 with the Twins and I think could get 20 or more with Eichel.

 

[thewookie1]

In my original deals, reduce the Kane trade to a deal with only 1 second round pick, trade Ennis for a 2018 2nd, and up the Shattenkirk trade to the 2017 1st, Bailey, and Nelson (Yandle template)....

.... and it still doesn't take away from the 2017 opening night roster. It's all pick shuffling. It'd go from this:

2017: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3
2018: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3

to this

2017: 2, 2, 3
2018: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3

Bolded - Waste of assets
Also Gorges is under contract for 2017

 

[AustonsNostrils]

Would never trade Bailey without getting a good look at him in Buffalo.

Enough with giving up our young, Tim's done plenty of that, finish the rebuild with smarts - draft well, develop well, savvy trades and ufa signings to fill in what's missing.

 

[Tatanka]

Anyone have an issue signing Vrbata for 1 year 2 million or less to play on Eichel's wing should Vesey go elsewhere?

Vrbata is soft, but he can still skate well and has an excellent release. He put up 32 with the Twins and I think could get 20 or more with Eichel.

I would rather have Hudler if they go that route.

 

[Ruckus007]

So how far into the summer do we have to get before people are okay with a 1 year deal for Kris Russell?

 

[TehDoak]

So how far into the summer do we have to get before people are okay with a 1 year deal for Kris Russell?

Much like Franson last year...he doesn't improve the team. Franson wasn't an upgrade to Bogo/Risto, Russell might be a marginal upgrade to Gorges (provides a little more offense, but doesn't drive possession)

Much rather roll with McCabe and hope he pushes Gorges down to to the bottom pair.

 

[Husko]

So how far into the summer do we have to get before people are okay with a 1 year deal for Kris Russell?

If we're going to add a Russel type, I'd rather he be a righty at this point. But it wouldn't be terrible. More competition for Georges and McCabe isn't a bad thing.