Speculation: Roster Speculation: Part XVI (Off-Season Madness)

[Dingo44]

For sure. Vesey-Eichel-Reinhart would be great.
Or even Vesey-Eichel-Fasching
Or Vesey-Eichel-Girgensons

If Buffalo grabs one of Vesey or Caggiula I'll be thrilled. Should try to trade for Vesey's rights

I sort of get why you'd trade for them and sort of don't. It does allow us to negotiate with him exclusively until August 15, but it's still no guarantee, and who's to say we couldn't just sign him then anyway? Of course, it would probably be no more than a 6th or 7th, or maybe a conditional pick.

Of course, I'm sure Jack will be in Vesey's ear while they're working out together this summer, and I bet he'll get back to Murray if he gets the word Vesey would sign. Then it would look something like 2017 6th for rights to Vesey on July 1 or at the draft, and then Vesey signs a couple of days later. I'm sure Toronto and others would not be thrilled but oh well.

 

[stokes84]

Or they trade Cogliano and Stoner, which frees up a combined $6.25 million. The situation is much, much less apocalyptic than you make it out to be.

An additional two roster spots that need to be filled. So what is that, 11 roster spots with $11 million to sign them all. Even better! Means you are still going to have to move on from all of your UFAs and RFAs, then fill in those other spots with general fodder.

 

[dkollidas]

Lindholm is the last person Anaheim should be moving to deal with their cap...

I bet they find a way to move Perry.

As you said "should".
This time last year Brandon Saad and Dougie Hamilton were the last player Chicagi or Boston should've moved, but it happened.

Not saying I disagree with you. I completely agree with you. But this is an organization that traded valuable pieces for a beaten down expensive Kevin Bieksa...

 

[Der Jaeger]

I'd go into the draft looking to come out with either Juolevi or Chychrun. Offer sheet Lindholm (threaten) and try to trade for either Lindholm or Fowler as the alternative. Then I'd stack arms around:

Eichel
Reinhart
O'Reilly
Ristolainen
Chychrun/Juolevi
Lindholm/Fowler

Everyone else is moveable. I'd work some expansion draft deals, build depth, and trade UFAs at the deadline each year.

 

[alcolol]

Ritchie ($900k) - Getzlaf ($8.25m) - Pirri ($2m)
Tatar ($2.75m) - Rakell ($2m) - Perry ($8.65)
Cogliano ($3m) - Kesler ($6.875m) - Silfverberg ($3.75m)
Garbutt ($900k) - Thompson ($1.6m) - Wagner($637k)

Lindholm ($6m) - Manson ($825k)
Despres ($3.7m) - Vatanen ($5m)
Theodore ($900k) - Bieksa ($4m)

Gibson ($2.3m)
Random Backup ($1m)

Total Salary: $65m

And all I did was trade Fowler for Tatar, and dump Stoner. Hardly inevitable that Lindholm gets moved

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

The Ducks don't have to spend to the Cap to screw with Stokes' calculations. If they decide to bump the internal cap up to 67 and trade Bieksa, that suddenly gives them 11 mil for those 9 roster slots. Rakell gets bridged at 2.5-3, Ritchie steps up at < 1. So that's ~7.2-7.7 mil with:

Rakell-Getz-Perry
Cogliano-Kesler-Slif
Ritchie-X-Y
Z-Thompson-Garbutt

Manson-Lindholm
Despres-Fowler
Theodore-Stoner
_______

Gibson
______

Plugging the third line prolly takes ~4.5 mil, so that's 2.7-3.2 left for a 7th D (not counting Montour), 12th forward, and 2nd goalie. It's tight, but doable, and that's without introducing even more complicating variables like trading someone like Vats or Fowler for cheap/ELC talent.

Either way, so long as the Ducks adhere to an internal cap, they're going to have to choose between cheaping out on depth or losing their high end secondary players.

 

[dkollidas]

Anaheim is an internal cap team, this year spending about $64 million. They have 4 UFA forwards and 5 RFAs that came off the books. This leaves them currently at $53 million. Assuming their internal cap stays the same or only slightly increases, that means they have 9 holes to fill. RFAs are Lindholm, Vatanen, Andersen, Rackell, and Pirri. If they match an offersheet of $7.3 mil for Lindholm, they have about $4 million to fill 8 roster holes. Almost impossible. Even if they traded an expensive player, for the sake of argument, Kevin Bieksa, for draft picks, that would mean that they have around $8 million to fill 9 roster spots. They would have to say goodbye to Vatanen, Andersen, Rackell, all of their UFAs, probably Pirri too. 9 roster spots to fill with less than a million per player. That would be a cataclysmic event for a hockey team. And that's with them clearing out salary.

Im not totally disagreeing with your analysis of the cap situation. I was just pointing out ways that they could "get around it" but moreso, why other options (trading Vatanen/Andersen/Fowler) are LESS appealing than maybe meets the eye.

But you are correct in that the internal cap restraints will hurt the Ducks. Especially since they didn't go as deep in the playoffs and gain that much more revenue.

 

[dkollidas]

The Ducks don't have to spend to the Cap to screw with Stokes' calculations. If they decide to bump the internal cap up to 67 and trade Bieksa, that suddenly gives them 11 mil for those 9 roster slots. Rakell gets bridged at 2.5-3, Ritchie steps up at < 1. So that's ~7.2-7.7 mil with:

Rakell-Getz-Perry
Cogliano-Kesler-Slif
Ritchie-X-Y
Z-Thompson-Garbutt

Manson-Lindholm
Despres-Fowler
Theodore-Stoner
_______

Gibson
______

Plugging the third line prolly takes ~4.5 mil, so that's 2.7-3.2 left for a 7th D (not counting Montour), 12th forward, and 2nd goalie. It's tight, but doable, and that's without introducing even more complicating variables like trading someone like Vats or Fowler for cheap/ELC talent.

Either way, so long as the Ducks adhere to an internal cap, they're going to have to choose between cheaping out on depth or losing their high end secondary players.

As much as you, I or most HF posters would say to move Bieksa, losing him makes that defense core VERY soft. Which was why he was brought in. He has a NTC as well I believe, which further limits options. Plus, who's like "you who would be great for us, Bieksa! He was terrible in the regular season and looked marginally professional in the post season, let's do that!" And if you say Arizona, every team is going to try to dump contracts on the Coyotes this year, and they still have Chris Friggen Pronger on their books. I see them starting to sign actual talent to build around their young core.

 

[stokes84]

Ritchie ($900k) - Getzlaf ($8.25m) - Pirri ($2m)
Tatar ($2.75m) - Rakell ($2m) - Perry ($8.65)
Cogliano ($3m) - Kesler ($6.875m) - Silfverberg ($3.75m)
Garbutt ($900k) - Thompson ($1.6m) - Wagner($637k)

Lindholm ($6m) - Manson ($825k)
Despres ($3.7m) - Vatanen ($5m)
Theodore ($900k) - Bieksa ($4m)

Gibson ($2.3m)
Random Backup ($1m)

Total Salary: $65m

And all I did was trade Fowler for Tatar, and dump Stoner. Hardly inevitable that Lindholm gets moved

Why is Lindholm getting $6? This is based on him signing a $7.3 mil offersheet, which puts your calculations at more than $2 mil over their current internal budget.

 

[Reddawg]

I think it's pretty severely unlikely that an NHL club will part ways with a true, young, #1 LHD over an internal salary cap, personally.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

As much as you, I or most HF posters would say to move Bieksa, losing him makes that defense core VERY soft. Which was why he was brought in. He has a NTC as well I believe, which further limits options. Plus, who's like "you who would be great for us, Bieksa! He was terrible in the regular season and looked marginally professional in the post season, let's do that!" And if you say Arizona, every team is going to try to dump contracts on the Coyotes this year, and they still have Chris Friggen Pronger on their books. I see them starting to sign actual talent to build around their young core.

That scenario is based off the criteria Stokes presented, not my own feelings about how any of this actually goes. I'm actually surprised he's given them the benefit of the doubt on being able to move either the Stoner or Bieksa contracts.

Also, breaking up Getz-Perry makes it much easier to plug random dudes from Fowler/Anderson/Vatanen/whoever trades into the lineup.

 

[Dingo44]

I think it's pretty severely unlikely that an NHL club will part ways with a true, young, #1 LHD over an internal salary cap, personally.

You would think but Boston parted ways with a #1 RHD over the salary cap, and RHD are apparently harder to come by.

I see you typed internal, but the Ducks do have to have a budget.

 

[alcolol]

Why is Lindholm getting $6? This is based on him signing a $7.3 mil offersheet, which puts your calculations at more than $2 mil over their current internal budget.

And I'm basing my calculations on the more likely scenario in which Lindholm gets signed prior to being offer-sheeted.

Let's say your scenario plays out and we match a $7.3m offersheet. Our salary expenditure now becomes $67m, which is marginally above the internal budget we maintained this year. GMBM is on record saying revenues increased and next year's internal budget will reflect that change.

 

[Reddawg]

You would think but Boston parted ways with a #1 RHD over the salary cap, and RHD are apparently harder to come by.

I see you typed internal, but the Ducks do have to have a budget.

I realize that, but the whole thing about an internal cap is that it's self-imposed. I can't see a contending NHL team self-imposing themselves into losing a franchise player. The Bruins had to part with Hamilton over the hard cap, that's completely different.

 

[alcolol]

You would think but Boston parted ways with a #1 RHD over the salary cap, and RHD are apparently harder to come by.

I see you typed internal, but the Ducks do have to have a budget.

The difference being Hamilton did NOT want to play in Boston. Them not wanting to sign his POS brother to an AHL deal also factored in Dougie's refusal to sign a contract.

Lindholm made clear in his exit interview that he wants to be part of Anaheim's future.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I think it's pretty severely unlikely that an NHL club will part ways with a true, young, #1 LHD over an internal salary cap, personally.

I think it's highly unlikely that an NHL club would part way with true top 6 centers over in internal contract negotiating rule.

I don't think Lindholm moves either.... but teams get the crazies sometimes.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Ritchie ($900k) - Getzlaf ($8.25m) - Pirri ($2m)
Tatar ($2.75m) - Rakell ($2m) - Perry ($8.65)
Cogliano ($3m) - Kesler ($6.875m) - Silfverberg ($3.75m)
Garbutt ($900k) - Thompson ($1.6m) - Wagner($637k)

Lindholm ($6m) - Manson ($825k)
Despres ($3.7m) - Vatanen ($5m)
Theodore ($900k) - Bieksa ($4m)

Gibson ($2.3m)
Random Backup ($1m)

Total Salary: $65m

And all I did was trade Fowler for Tatar, and dump Stoner. Hardly inevitable that Lindholm gets moved

I think it's Fowler too. Threaten the offer sheet to Lindholm, then work the deal. Hard to beat the Tatar deal.

 

[dkollidas]

That scenario is based off the criteria Stokes presented, not my own feelings about how any of this actually goes. I'm actually surprised he's given them the benefit of the doubt on being able to move either the Stoner or Bieksa contracts.

Also, breaking up Getz-Perry makes it much easier to plug random dudes from Fowler/Anderson/Vatanen/whoever trades into the lineup.

I see where you're coming from. I just don't see Getzlaf or Perry allowing a trade. They have NMC's. It's a situation similar to San Jose. They're in a non-traditional market, they need faces that score goals to put butts in the seats. Getzlaf and Perry do that.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I meant putting them on different lines like the dude below me did.

 

[dkollidas]

I think it's pretty severely unlikely that an NHL club will part ways with a true, young, #1 LHD over an internal salary cap, personally.

Agreed. But, I think the organization views Fowler as that guy.
Vatanen also holds a lot of value as a right handed guy.
Stoner and Bieksa are guys I think they see as "playoff" performers, ala Orpik in DC.
And you can put quotation marks around "internal cap" all you want and write it off, but even if you're worth millions, or billions, you still have limited resources and budgets. They're bigger than yours & mine, but they are limits that still exist.

 

[dkollidas]

I meant putting them on different lines like the dude below me did.

Oh wow! Ok my bad.

 

[Man of Principles]

I think they're gonna try to trade Perry. Didn't find the scoresheet all series. He's supposed to be the guy. that contract is gonna be hard to move. I want no part of it.

If they're trading any defenseman outside of Stoner or Bieksa that's where our focus should be.

 

[dkollidas]

I realize that, but the whole thing about an internal cap is that it's self-imposed. I can't see a contending NHL team self-imposing themselves into losing a franchise player. The Bruins had to part with Hamilton over the hard cap, that's completely different.

The thing with the "internal cap" is its not put in place by the "organization", it's put in place specifically by ownership.

 

[haseoke39]

The thing with the "internal cap" is its not put in place by the "organization", it's put in place specifically by ownership.

Same thing.

 

[dkollidas]

Same thing.

Not really. It wasn't the same thing when the Rigas' bankrupted the team bc of their other businesses.

The "organization", at least as I see it, refers to everyone on the coaching staff, scouting staffs (pro and amateur), management (GM, team president, etc) and owners.

The owners themselves may as a collective say "yes that person is integral to us winning a cup", but the owner(s) may sit down and say "eh, it may be important, but I'm not paying that much for it".

That's the difference to me.