Speculation: Roster Speculation: Part XVI (Off-Season Madness)

[Jim Bob]

I don't think the prices around "here" are too much. On the trade board when the discussion becomes Reinhart, that's too much.

I, like Murray, have no issue with perceived overpayment in secondary or tertiary assets when addressing core team needs (see Oreilly trade).

If Brodin makes a great fit/pair with Risto... Than these deals are fine with me.

And that is my issue with the deals.

I don't see Brodin being that guy. Perhaps I'm undervaluing him...

 

[Jame]

And that is my issue with the deals.

I don't see Brodin being that guy. Perhaps I'm undervaluing him...

Why? Because he's Swedish?

 

[Jim Bob]

Why? Because he's Swedish?

It probably has to do with the fact that he plays behind Suter.

But, his advanced stats point to a guy with limited offensive game. Heck, Pysyk's offensive advanced stats look way better than Brodin's do. And Pysyk has played his entire NHL career on a horrid offensive club.

http://public.tableau.com/shared/Z9XXG54PF?:display_count=yes

If you are talking about a guy to play on the top pairing with Risto, I'd want a guy with a bit more of a well rounded game, is all.

 

[Zip15]

Coller has a list of 10 possible defense targets. Pretty much all of the names have been mentioned at one time or another around here. Here's a sampling:

Anaheim - LD - Cam Fowler
Key stat: 22:47 TOI per game last season

The Ducks are not in "cap jail" but they have two Restricted Free Agent star defenseman in Sami Vatanen and Hampus Lindholm. Both will demand big pay days. They also may view young defender Shea Theodore, who is on an Entry Level Contract, as a similar player to Fowler. At one time, the former first-round pick was believed to be the Ducks' franchise defenseman, but he has been passed by Lindholm and Vatanen, which could make him expendable. Fowler still played 22 minutes per game and scored 28 points. He is a strong skater and has offensive gifts - those skills would be a solid compliment to Ristolainen.

St. Louis - RD - Kevin Shattenkirk
Key stat: 7.92 points per 60 on Power Play, No. 1 in the NHL

The Blues have series salary cap issues and may want to move Shattenkirk out before he hits the final year of his contract. As for as "power play quarterbacks" there is nobody better in the entire NHL. He is a brilliant puck distributor who consistently puts up 40-plus points. At even strength, Shattenkirk is a puck possession driver, pushing the puck up the ice with quality D-zone exit passes. He is occasionally over aggressive and not a perfect defender, but the positives far outweigh the negatives. Shattenkirk would have to come along with a long-term contract extension and would have a fairly high price on the trade market.

Free agent - LD - Keith Yandle
Key stat: 5.49 Assists per 60 on PP, 2nd in NHL

The talented passer has been similar in power play production to Shattenkirk as one of the elite man-advantage players in the NHL. There are more defensive questions about Yandle than Shattenkirk. He lacks toughness and can be beaten in front of the net and in the corners. There are also occasional mental lapses - ones that caused the Rangers to give him protected minutes. Yandle received the highest percentage of offensive zone faceoffs in the league for defenseman. He could take puck-carrying pressure away from Ristolainen, but there would be moments of frustration.

http://www.wgr550.com/10-defenseman-the-Sabres-could-target-in-the-offse/22729191

 

[Matt Ress]

Coller has a list of 10 possible defense targets. Pretty much all of the names have been mentioned at one time or another around here. Here's a sampling:



http://www.wgr550.com/10-defenseman-the-Sabres-could-target-in-the-offse/22729191

I'd love Brodin as a #4LD and I don't think it costs nearly as much as HF Minny posters believe but Shattenkirk would be the real prize. Not sure if this off season would be a perfect time for St. Louis to move him especially if they go deeper and he has a few hero moments.

 

[Chainshot]

At least he could stop by and say "thank you".

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Am i totally insane for preferring to give up Girgensons to Fasching/Bailey?

Girgensons is better player than Fasching is, or likely will become.

 

[Jame]

It probably has to do with the fact that he plays behind Suter.

But, his advanced stats point to a guy with limited offensive game. Heck, Pysyk's offensive advanced stats look way better than Brodin's do. And Pysyk has played his entire NHL career on a horrid offensive club.

http://public.tableau.com/shared/Z9XXG54PF?:display_count=yes

If you are talking about a guy to play on the top pairing with Risto, I'd want a guy with a bit more of a well rounded game, is all.

I'm familiar with the metrics/narrative. He definitely has a limited offensive game, but does that make him a poor fit with Risto? I think Risto's offensive game could take off with a defensive partner that allowed him more freedom, along with the growth in our top 6 talent.

Brodin's athletics/skating are not a hindrance in any way. The defensive defensemen who are limited athletically (Gorges) are a dying breed with regards to top 4 roles.

I also think Minnesota's forwards limit their team Corsi via their low end transition skills as a group.

And Brodin's contract is a high value component of the package (5 more years/4.16 per)... for ages 23 to 27 years old.

If he's available, and the "ideal" candidates aren't... and the cost is a few "nice" assets without touching core assets. I'm in. Low Risk, High Reward IMO.

 

[1972]

Brodin isn't even that good

 

[Jim Bob]

If he's available, and the "ideal" candidates aren't... and the cost is a few "nice" assets without touching core assets. I'm in. Low Risk, High Reward IMO.

Sorry, but I don't see Brodin worth 3 or 4 "nice" assets.

 

[Jame]

Brodin isn't even that good

i think he's pretty darn good.

I think his 2014-15 season shows that. Sure... he was paired with Suter. And while Risto may never reach that elite level, we do expect him to be a bonafide top pair defensemen, right?

Brodin 2014-15 (68% with Suter)
GF 2.72
GA 1.67
+1.05

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I'd be happy with Hamhuis or Campbell on 1 or 2 year deals. Maybe 3 for Hamhuis. That might not be viable.

They'd also be unappealing players for an expansion team to select, so they could be left unprotected.

Hamhuis 15million 3 years
Campbell 6million 1 year, 2 million in bonus?

 

[Myllz]

Is it too much to ask to get both Brodin and Fowler?

 

[NotABadPeriod]

I'd be happy with Hamhuis or Campbell on 1 or 2 year deals. Maybe 3 for Hamhuis. That might not be viable.

They'd also be unappealing players for an expansion team to select, so they could be left unprotected.

Hamhuis 15million 3 years
Campbell 6million 1 year, 2 million in bonus?

Hamhuis is an intriguing option I've never really considered. The question is whether he will still be effective in 3 years or not, but right now he could certainly handle big minutes next to Risto.

 

[Jim Bob]

Coller has a list of 10 possible defense targets. Pretty much all of the names have been mentioned at one time or another around here. Here's a sampling:

http://www.wgr550.com/10-defenseman-the-Sabres-could-target-in-the-offse/22729191

http://public.tableau.com/shared/8K3GXQ3YN?:display_count=yes

That article made me look...

 

[Jame]

http://public.tableau.com/shared/8K3GXQ3YN?:display_count=yes

That article made me look...

These compares don't pass the sniff test...

Should compare Larsson to McGinn next?

http://public.tableau.com/shared/RTFW5H8PZ?:display_count=no

 

[Zip15]

I'd be happy with Hamhuis or Campbell on 1 or 2 year deals. Maybe 3 for Hamhuis. That might not be viable.

They'd also be unappealing players for an expansion team to select, so they could be left unprotected.

Hamhuis 15million 3 years
Campbell 6million 1 year, 2 million in bonus?

No way Hamhuis comes east to play for a team that's not a bona fide Stanley Cup contender.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Fasching is close to untradeable along with Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, and ROR

As others have pointed out... he really isn't.

He's a promising player in an area that isn't a huge team need. If he helps fill THE area of need then he's available. For me at least

Jonas Brodin is getting reaaaaaal overrated around here.

I'm not sure that he is. He ticks a lot of boxes...

I agree with this.
To me, Fowler >> Brodin.

If I was in charge, I'd stay the course and work what I could on D via free agency rather than trade.

... boxes that Fowler doesn't necessarily tick. I actually liked the idea of going after both though.

Brodin could be the perfect partner for Risto. I like the idea of getting a guy like Brodin (very solid defensively, high hockey IQ, someone able to log big minutes on a 'top' pairing against whoever) & also getting a guy more likely to put up big points (or dare I say even a PPQB) for a 'second' pairing role The problem here is that I'm still not sure where how (or even if) Bogo fits in long term I like him and all but anyway...

The other thing that is really great abut Brodin is his contract Its perfect.

As for free agency - I don't think there is one UFA I would like the team to sign from the current crop.

I never understand some people's obsession with not wanting to give up assets to improve the squad as a whole. UFA should be for adding you're final complimentary pieces, a wily veteran to help lead in the locker room. Not to fill glaring & cavernous holes in your roster.

Agreed. I like him, but the most I'd do is something along the lines of girgensons and a flipping of 1sts.

I'd be far more inclined to overpay for fowler, or just try and pluck someone on the cheap and spend assets on a winger for the boys

So you don't want to give up assets to fill the one obvious hole on the team - but at the same n problem giving up assets for another winger ? Because that is such a huge need ?

Switch teams & then see if you make that deal from the Wild's perspective.

As for 'overpaying' for Fowler... as already said there are a number of reasons why Brodin could be seen as being more attractive - playing style, contract, costs in terms of assets etc.

Brodie would be a perfect partner for Risto, don't get me wrong. I love his game.

But he's definitely not the "QB" GMTM wants

As I said above - I hope it may be the case that he targets two players.

I also don't know how much to read into the 'QB' comments...

The Wild want a young center with top six upside for Brodin. Idk if Girgs + fits the bill for them. But then, young top six centers are difficult to come by and I'm not sure if they'd get a better offer anywhere around the league. RNH maybe. But then the Oilers want RHD, so....

The problem is for them - they need a true '1C' which they don't have Girgs is a nice piece for us, could be a nice piece for them also. But he's not a '1C'. They may hit lucky wth 8ov which is why I offer this in return for Brodin first & foremost...

I still like 2017 first, 2016 second, and Bailey for Brodin. Bailey will be at two years service at the expansion draft and exempt. The picks re-stock the pipeline for the Wild, while moving a defenseman they can't protect.

As for centers for the Wild, the only one on the market is RNH, and I'd make the trade for Harmoic if I'm the Oilers. The Wild aren't so bad off at center anyway. Koivu, Grandlund, Coyle, and Huala all can or do play center. Eriksson Ek is in the pipeline. And they've got a shot at Rubtsov. They aren't that bad off.

As said above - they need a '1C'. I really like their group as a whole & depth but this is where they are sorely lacking. The problem for them is that nobody will trade any close to proven '1C' for someone like Brodin... so they have to take a chance. With 8ov+ their own first they have a chance.

As for Fasching vs. Bailey+2nd

I think Minnesota prefers Fasching (there's no real basis to this view TBH) - I'd have no problem trading either plus '17 1st for Brodin.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Coller has a list of 10 possible defense targets. Pretty much all of the names have been mentioned at one time or another around here. Here's a sampling:

http://www.wgr550.com/10-defenseman-the-Sabres-could-target-in-the-offse/22729191

Honestly the only guys I realistically target here are Fowler, Brodin & to a lesser extent Wier.

Shattenkirk plays the wrong side & you would assume would cost the world especially given his age
Yandle is terrible - do not want
Goligoski isn' t bad but is a little old & i see him getting over paid (as with most UFAs)
Campbell is too old plus you should never go back..
Enstrom is too old given what it would likely take to trade for him. If they can get him relatively cheaply I wouldn't hate it though.
Barrie plays the wrong side & I doubt he's moving anyway
Hamhuis is too old

 

[EichHart]

Fasching needs to work on his speed/explosiveness to be considered in our top tier of players. He definitely has the potential though.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Sorry, but I don't see Brodin worth 3 or 4 "nice" assets.

if I can trade complimentary wingers and some picks for a D-man that plays 20+ mins a night against top competition while maintaining very high defensive numbers, well I get pretty pumped about that

 

[Matt Ress]

As others have pointed out... he really isn't.

He's a promising player in an area that isn't a huge team need. If he helps fill THE area of need then he's available. For me at least



I'm not sure that he is. He ticks a lot of boxes...



... boxes that Fowler doesn't necessarily tick. I actually liked the idea of going after both though.

Brodin could be the perfect partner for Risto. I like the idea of getting a guy like Brodin (very solid defensively, high hockey IQ, someone able to log big minutes on a 'top' pairing against whoever) & also getting a guy more likely to put up big points (or dare I say even a PPQB) for a 'second' pairing role The problem here is that I'm still not sure where how (or even if) Bogo fits in long term I like him and all but anyway...

The other thing that is really great abut Brodin is his contract Its perfect.

As for free agency - I don't think there is one UFA I would like the team to sign from the current crop.

I never understand some people's obsession with not wanting to give up assets to improve the squad as a whole. UFA should be for adding you're final complimentary pieces, a wily veteran to help lead in the locker room. Not to fill glaring & cavernous holes in your roster.



So you don't want to give up assets to fill the one obvious hole on the team - but at the same n problem giving up assets for another winger ? Because that is such a huge need ?

Switch teams & then see if you make that deal from the Wild's perspective.

As for 'overpaying' for Fowler... as already said there are a number of reasons why Brodin could be seen as being more attractive - playing style, contract, costs in terms of assets etc.



As I said above - I hope it may be the case that he targets two players.

I also don't know how much to read into the 'QB' comments...



The problem is for them - they need a true '1C' which they don't have Girgs is a nice piece for us, could be a nice piece for them also. But he's not a '1C'. They may hit lucky wth 8ov which is why I offer this in return for Brodin first & foremost...



As said above - they need a '1C'. I really like their group as a whole & depth but this is where they are sorely lacking. The problem for them is that nobody will trade any close to proven '1C' for someone like Brodin... so they have to take a chance. With 8ov+ their own first they have a chance.

As for Fasching vs. Bailey+2nd

I think Minnesota prefers Fasching (there's no real basis to this view TBH) - I'd have no problem trading either plus '17 1st for Brodin.

I wouldn't disregard TM's comments about a PPQB or his comments about already having tentative trades in place. The question is really what the details would be.

Fasching is probably more known in Minny HF circles which is why he'd be more coveted on trade boards.

 

[Jim Bob]

if I can trade complimentary wingers and some picks for a D-man that plays 20+ mins a night against top competition while maintaining very high defensive numbers, well I get pretty pumped about that

Here is the problem for me.

People talk about Pysyk, Bailey, Fasching, '17 1st, and various 2nd rounders being "complimentary" and "non-core" pieces.

But, I don't see Brodin coming in and being a "core piece". At least not by my definition of "core piece".

Brodin would be kind of like Bogosian to me. And Bogosian isn't a "core piece".

So, you are giving up 3 or 4 complimentary pieces for 1 complimentary piece.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

I wouldn't trade Bailey for Brodin straight up. Bailey's upside is greater than Fasching's as well.

 

[Samsonite23]

I wouldn't trade Bailey for Brodin straight up. Bailey's upside is greater than Fasching's as well.

That is certifiable. I want to hear your reasoning behind that.