Speculation: Roster Speculation, 2018 Off-Season

[Dreakon13]

I’d love to get Holtby.

I’m also terrified of what a nincompoop GM like Botts might do to get him.... I fear it’s something that would make Mike Milbury blush....

It really doesn't take long, or much, to get this fanbase to completely turn on a GM these days.

 

[OkimLom]

But...you were excited when Housley was hired. Everybody was.

Have you ever had a Christmas that you were happy to get a present from someone. Then you shook it, and you felt you knew what was inside, but there was hope that it could've been something else, so you were still excited but not as much as when you initially received the present. Then you opened it, and you see that it was something you talked about years ago but don't need anymore.

That's the point I'm at with Housely. The thought was nice, but I don't need this present. I needed something else.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

It really doesn't take long, or much, to get this fanbase to completely turn on a GM these days.

The team is 20 points worse.

All of his players are less valuable than when he was hired.

His coach oversaw comprehensive regression and is coming back for another year, with organizational backing.

He blew the Kane situation.

He's in the process of running his second best player out of town.

Like, what constitutes “much” for you?

 

[Jame]

The selection of Housley as coach was pretty universally cheered throughout the hockey world. We weren't the only team in demand for his services.

I'd be interested in seeing the evidence of that.... how many times has a head coach been hired with literally no professional head coaching experience... let's say, in the last 15 years?

The system Housley laid out that he wants to play sounded exactly what both Botts and us wanted for this team, especially with Jack Eichel. It hasn't worked for a number of reasons but to really bash Botts and Pegula over it is a bit much.

Paper GMs, paper coaches..... Pegula is clueless.

What great GM hasn't made mistakes with coaching hires? Lou used to fire his coaches mid-season almost yearly and still win Cups. Red Wings fans are hating on Holland, especially for hiring Blashill, but it's a bit much when you have all that success as a track record.

I'm not sure how an example of a great GM immediately parting with a bad coach, becomes a defense of Botts....

I'd love to know how hiring the right coach is an exact science. Based on the amount of coaching turnover every year, finding the right coach might be the hardest and most inexact job for a GM.

It isn't an exact science, that's the point.... it's a skill.

 

[joshjull]

The team is 20 points worse.

All of his players are less valuable than when he was hired.

His coach oversaw comprehensive regression and is coming back for another year, with organizational backing.

He blew the Kane situation.

He's in the process of running his second best player out of town.

Like, what constitutes “much” for you?

That's not true and never will be no matter how many times you post it.

 

[Dreakon13]

The team is 20 points worse.

All of his players are less valuable than when he was hired.

His coach oversaw comprehensive regression and is coming back for another year, with organizational backing.

He blew the Kane situation.

He's in the process of running his second best player out of town.

Like, what constitutes “much” for you?

I feel like there are reasons for much of this beyond "Botts is an idiot".

I watched an episode of Hoarders once where the house was so full of shit that the supports/ceiling in the basement was starting to cave in. Botts inherited that house. If Murray and Bylsma stayed, they might've kept doing what they were doing, slap some fresh boards on and keep the ceiling up just a little longer. Playing a simple dumb system to mitigate the issues. Instead, Botts hired a new coach, implemented a new system with more of a focus on modern NHL play, added some new faces... took some steps towards doing things the right way... and the poor basement finally caved in.

Odd as it sounds, I'm more comfortable that the basement caved in. Now they can just keep the stuff that didn't get crushed by it, and build something new and better. And I don't see anything so damning at this point to think Botts is incapable of that. Heck, maybe he even learned a thing or two from this year.

But maybe I'm just overly optimistic. It depends on how much you really cared about this season.

 

[joshjull]

I want Ullmark to have every opportunity to win the job, so having a goalie signed for $6 mil for the next 3 seasons would be a major obstacle.

Just a fyi, He's signed for 2 more years.

 

[Dingo44]

I'd be interested in seeing the evidence of that.... how many times has a head coach been hired with literally no professional head coaching experience... let's say, in the last 15 years?




Paper GMs, paper coaches..... Pegula is clueless.




I'm not sure how an example of a great GM immediately parting with a bad coach, becomes a defense of Botts....




It isn't an exact science, that's the point.... it's a skill.

Look, I don't have an agenda, though obviously some on here do. It's cool to bash things retroactively to fit whatever biases you have against certain people. But last year wasn't that long ago, so we all still have fairly fresh memories of Housley being considered an excellent hire. Again, you stated in the beginning of the Housley is Hired thread that his being hired was one thing you SPECIFICALLY wanted. I'm disappointed in how it's turned out too but that's just how it is. It's different from year to year and team to team, too. How did you feel about Jared Bednar at the end of last season? Did you agree when Columbus hired Torts? Guy was considered way past his expiration date. Who did you predict would have more success - McLelland or DeBoer?

Is Botts the right man? The jury is still out for me, but I think he made what was considered a good hire for the team he wanted, and then instead of going overboard and making tons of changes to the Sabres, he made a few minor moves other than getting Scandella, and then used this year to evaluate and make some decisions on what had to be done going forward.

If you're now going to use Botts an as example of why Pegula is horrible that is really stretching. Botterill was probably the best candidate out there who wasn't a GM. He was coming off being one of the major reasons for the Penguins success, coming off a Stanley Cup win, on their way to another Stanley Cup win. Listening to interviews with people like Dreger he's still considered one of the best young minds in hockey. He inherited a bad situation and no one was going to turn it around in one season. It's better to sit back and make minor changes and figure out what you have than come in and make major changes with no real in-depth idea of the organization and what type of plan is needed going forward.

You can make a lot of complaints but I tend to suspect a lot of people are basically I DON'T LIKE PEGULA>EVERYTHING IS HIS FAULT and then builds their perceptions through that bias.

But based on the rock star hires of Sean McDermott and Brandon Beane, not to mention building an insanely successful company, I'm pretty confident in Pegula. Everyone makes mistakes.

 

[OkimLom]

I feel like there are reasons for much of this beyond "Botts is an idiot".

I watched an episode of Hoarders once where the house was so full of **** that the supports/ceiling in the basement was starting to cave in. Botts inherited that house. If Murray and Bylsma stayed, they might've kept doing what they were doing, slap some fresh boards on and keep the ceiling up just a little longer. Playing a simple dumb system to mitigate the issues. Instead, Botts hired a new coach, implemented a new system with more of a focus on modern NHL play, added some new faces... took some steps towards doing things the right way... and the poor basement finally caved in.

Odd as it sounds, I'm more comfortable that the basement caved in. Now they can just keep the stuff that didn't get crushed by it, and build something new and better. And I don't see anything so damning at this point to think Botts is incapable of that. Heck, maybe he even learned a thing or two from this year.

But maybe I'm just overly optimistic. It depends on how much you really cared about this season.

Actually in this case, Botts took some garbage out of the house, but brought in his own garbage, and then put a new color of paint on the house, and then dusted a little bit around the house.

But maybe I'm just overly optimistic. It depends on how much you really cared about this season.

I wasn't caring about the wins and losses about this team. But it's pretty depressing the direction the individual players took this year. It was a little encouraging that certain guys bounced back, but very discouraging when other guys didn't bounce back. It's a sad state when you had ROR say he lost the love of the game, this after playing for two years for a coach who didn't want ANYTHING to do with the players.

I know people want to say this says a lot of ROR's mental mindframe, but I'm curious if there's something going on with the new coach and the players that allowed this to happen. They lost a lot last year and the year before. There were whispers of the team being okay with losing last year as well. Why all of a sudden did ROR lose that love of the game THIS year when it was supposed to be a brand new year? This was supposed to be a new coach. New starts for everyone. IMO, there may be something more under the surface. We all know the players, regardless of how much hatred they may have for their coach, they will always direct any issues of the state of the team at themselves publicly and to the media.

 

[Dreakon13]

Actually in this case, Botts took some garbage out of the house, but brought in his own garbage, and then put a new color of paint on the house, and then dusted a little bit around the house.

Well, I believe the early season struggles were a result of him and Housley pushing their whole attack, 5 man unit offensive philosophy... on a team of players that were used to dump and chase, waiting at the blue line for stretch passes, and generally not moving a whole lot.

It failed miserably due to the lack of talent, hurt the confidence of some players, they took a step back and the rest of the season was Housley and the players crawling out of it. Some players never made it.

IMO, that was the basement caving in. Changing things was the right thing to do, but it's possible it was too much change or that this team just couldn't handle any real change. Now they have the blueprints for a new foundation, insurance covered some of it (in the form of a top pick this year), and hopefully Botts "retools" it better than his predecessor.

 

[Icicle]

Yea... but I expect my ability to judge of the coaching ability of a guy who has no track record as a head coach.... should be significantly lower than Botts, who is essentially hired because that is one of his actual abilities (turns out... it's not).... which only once again goes to show that Pegula doesn't have a clue.

bwahahahahhahahahahahhahahahaha

So you hurl insults at the GM who followed your advice? Comedy hour

 

[Dingo44]

bwahahahahhahahahahahhahahahaha

So you hurl insults at the GM who followed your advice? Comedy hour

It does kind of come off as "You hired the guy that I wanted you to hire? What a moron. Pegula sucks."

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I'd rather go hard after Grubauer than Holtby. And I mean hard, been banging about this for a while and won't stop until Grubauer has re-signed in Washington long term.

 

[Reddawg]

Nearly every single person on this board came away from the summer celebrating the fact that we hired Botterill and Housley. They were the #1 choice out of the available candidates for nearly every single person on this board to fill the open positions. One season doesn't define them. I'm very willing to give them both at least one more year to show significant improvement before starting to ask questions about whether or not they're right for the job.

 

[Jame]

bwahahahahhahahahahahhahahahaha

So you hurl insults at the GM who followed your advice? Comedy hour

It does kind of come off as "You hired the guy that I wanted you to hire? What a moron. Pegula sucks."

What does any fan know about the coaching ability of someone who has never been a head coach?

I certainly feel like a dumb ass for it. For being blinded by Nashville's D core and one of the best coaches in hockey (Laviolette), and not seeing the inexperience staring me right in the face.

 

[ZZamboni]

Nearly every single person on this board came away from the summer celebrating the fact that we hired Botterill and Housley. They were the #1 choice out of the available candidates for nearly every single person on this board to fill the open positions. One season doesn't define them. I'm very willing to give them both at least one more year to show significant improvement before starting to ask questions about whether or not they're right for the job.

I'm of the same mindset. Unless ...... Someone becomes available who is massively more successful and has a good to great history of making young players better and a team hum.

 

[Jame]

bwahahahahhahahahahahhahahahaha

So you hurl insults at the GM who followed your advice? Comedy hour

ironically....

Coach Search 2017

I like that Tocchet has the experience of being an NHL head coach, while having the shine of a Stanley Cup winning assistant. That's a good mix.

For all the excitement of Housley... it's gotta be a little concerning that he's never head coached a hockey team beyond tournaments.


ps i wanted Lombardi as team president, and Brisebois for GM.....

 

[OkimLom]

Well, I believe the early season struggles were a result of him and Housley pushing their whole attack, 5 man unit offensive philosophy... on a team of players that were used to dump and chase, waiting at the blue line for stretch passes, and generally not moving a whole lot.

It failed miserably due to the lack of talent, hurt the confidence of some players, they took a step back and the rest of the season was Housley and the players crawling out of it. Some players never made it.

IMO, that was the basement caving in. Changing things was the right thing to do, but it's possible it was too much change or that this team just couldn't handle any real change. Now they have the blueprints for a new foundation, insurance covered some of it (in the form of a top pick this year), and hopefully Botts "retools" it better than his predecessor.

That's why I didn't care about the wins and losses. I knew and expected changes and a timeline of players getting used to the new system. It comes with a new coach. What you should be seeing is guys IMPROVING through the year individually, maybe not as a collective team as quickly, but individual players, especially the talented players should bounce back. That's why the ROR's and Reinhart's struggles didn't upset me as much as other posters earlier in the year. It was only a matter of time before they would get comfortable. According to some posters, they may claim it to be "when the season was lost" (whenever that was), but they did bounce back and they played well for the rest of the year.

But on the topic of Housley's 5 man attack, it's one thing to say you want to do that, it's a whole other thing to be able to execute it, and to me, it seemed they got themselves away from the 5 man attack as it was leading to poor decision making by the players and multiple chances that went the other way for breakaways. The Sabres coaching staff seem to have cut down on the aggressive nature of the attack. That was obviously a smart move on that part. It remains to be seen though, what type of offensive attack will suit these players better going forward and if Housley is capable of implementing it good enough.

 

[OkimLom]

I'm of the same mindset. Unless ...... Someone becomes available who is massively more successful and has a good to great history of making young players better and a team hum.

Didn't he recently re-sign with them?

 

[Revelate]

To STL:
ROR
Ristolainen

To BUF:
Berglund
Parayko

 

[ZZamboni]

Didn't he recently re-sign with them?

A coach can be fired at anytime so one can hope lol

 

[Reddawg]

To STL:
ROR
Ristolainen

To BUF:
Berglund
Parayko

That trade makes us considerably worse.

 

[Aladyyn]

To STL:
ROR
Ristolainen

To BUF:
Berglund
Parayko

Parayko is awesome, but that's a baaad trade.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I think many fans were so excited about Botterill and Housley that they expected a near playoff season. I was excited because I thought the team would start getting a proper re-build that is two years late thanks to TM. That proper re-build is going to take time and high draft picks, and re-stocking the prospect pool that Murray emptied into the yard. That means a few seasons of suck, and if nobody in the front office explained that to the team, at least some of the vets like O'Reilly should have understood what was coming. Yeah it sucks, yeah it means losing even more, but that's nobody's fault but TM and the people that brought him in. Players (the ones that are good enough to be considered keepers) need to dig in and buckle up for the long haul it will take before they're good again. Fans too. There's no quick fix, no amount of certain, particular FA vets that will make it better. The change will have to come from the draft, no other way.

 

[Revelate]

Parayko is awesome, but that's a baaad trade.

We get the best player in the deal. If we are going to use ROR in a checking line role anyway (which I don’t agree with) I think the magnitude of difference between ROR and Berglund is similar to the magnitude of difference between Parayko and Ristolainen.