Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 3

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I hope he can do with the supporting cast around him what Sid has been doing for years in Pittsburgh. That said give him some combination of natural wingers like Rodriguez, Baptiste, Carrier, Nylander and hope for the best. Kane can go with Reinhart (if they both stay on the team somehow, cause then how do we fix the D?) on the 3rd line with 1 more defensively responsible winger, while ROR is playing alongside Okposo. The rest is filler. Larsson to center 4th line.

 

[Jim Bob]

He is 36.

Now I was a huge advocate for Cam Talbot and people got upset but Cam Talbot is above average. I compared the two.

https://ibb.co/c5SEiF

See for yourself. Talbot is even older but nowhere past prime like your trying to do with Lundqvist who is now playing below average.

Us with Cam Talbot would be better off. This a clear I told this board so.

The ironic part is that Talbot basically cost the Oilers a 2nd and 3rd which isn't far off from what the Sabres gave up for Lehner.

Talbot this year looks a lot better than Talbot did last year. And honestly, Talbot is marginally better than Lehner, IMO.

They are both OK starting goalies. Neither is hot trash and neither is elite.

 

[Jim Bob]

I like Lehner, Ive supported him through the ups and downs. I think he has the ability to be a top 10 goalie. Murray believed he would be a top goalie, so I supported the trade.

That said, Lehner is not dependable at this point in his career. I would understand if Botts moves him.

What is your definition of a dependable starting goalie?

 

[Der Jaeger]

Botterill described players that would work best with Eichel are puck retrievers that get the puck back to Eichel so he can do his thing.

I agree with GMJB.

 

[Jame]

The ironic part is that Talbot basically cost the Oilers a 2nd and 3rd which isn't far off from what the Sabres gave up for Lehner.

Talbot this year looks a lot better than Talbot did last year. And honestly, Talbot is marginally better than Lehner, IMO.

They are both OK starting goalies. Neither is hot trash and neither is elite.

You mean... if you improve the defense in front of them... then the goalie... (wait for it)... plays better?

 

[Der Jaeger]

You mean... if you improve the defense in front of them... then the goalie... (wait for it)... plays better?

As a goalie, totally agree. It's pretty easy to understand.

I usually stop the shots I see and I'm squared up against.

Things that all goalies will have difficulty with:
- lateral movement to make saves off the rush. Everything happens so fast, it's hard to get set back up after coming across the crease.
- seeing around bodies in front.
- shots from the slot. Simple science here. Less time for the puck to travel = less time for the goalie to react.

Things which I can control:
- rebounds (most of the time)
- form
- lateral movement speed
- technique
- staying on skates
- making the second move

Off the first list, there's nothing I can do, as a goalie, to change that. Defensemen have to make sure the passing lanes off the rush are closed. Defensemen clear the front of the crease. The whole team is in charge of the slot. If they do that, and keep shots primarily in the low danger areas, I get to make a bunch of easy saves.

Grade goalies off the second list. The team has no control over those things. Watching Murray, he did all that very well. The Pens were able to take care of the first list most of the playoffs.

 

[Jame]

I'd do a 6 year, 38 million dollar offersheet for Dumolin.

Tell me I'm crazy.

It's a crazy gamble

 

[Dreakon13]

Quit all this logic and rational thinking!

Just face it, Lehner is bad. Shootouts. Botts is here to clean up Murray's mess. He doesn't stop pucks when it'd be better to stop them. The eye test. He doesn't... move... cleanly enough. Err... you know... sh- shootouts. Etc, etc. Do I really need to go on?

 

[flashsabre]

The Finals were fascinating from a d corps matchup. The Pens had one star dman ( Letang who was injured and didn't play). They had a group of competent dmen who fit into the system the Pens played.

The Preds had an allstar top 4 dcorps but were hurt by RyJo and Fiala being injured.

It will be interesting if Housley is the coach how him and Botts try to shape this d corps. Do they try to bring in really talented D or do they set a system in place and bring in compotent D that fit the system. (Smart, quick puck moving).

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Quit all this logic and rational thinking!

Just face it, Lehner is bad. Shootouts. Botts is here to clean up Murray's mess. He doesn't stop pucks when it'd be better to stop them. The eye test. He doesn't... move... cleanly enough. Err... you know... sh- shootouts. Etc, etc. Do I really need to go on?

Stats, eye test and shootouts are plenty reasons to send him to another team that's willing to pay for him. If thats not enough for you, than whatever. Im not here to convince you. We have a GM that makes the decisions. I will be disappointed if he stays but whatever.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

A first, second, and third

Doesn't that cost four firsts due to term?

But any deal involving a single first for Dumoulin is more cost effective than any Hanifin, Brodin, Tanev, or Fowler trade.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

He is 36.

Now I was a huge advocate for Cam Talbot and people got upset but Cam Talbot is above average. I compared the two.

https://ibb.co/c5SEiF

See for yourself. Talbot is even older but nowhere past prime like your trying to do with Lundqvist who is now playing below average.

Us with Cam Talbot would be better off. This a clear I told this board so.

Goalie who was worse on low percentage chances would definitely have improved team allowing high volume of low percentage chances. Got it.

 

[Chainshot]

The Finals were fascinating from a d corps matchup. The Pens had one star dman ( Letang who was injured and didn't play). They had a group of competent dmen who fit into the system the Pens played.

The Preds had an allstar top 4 dcorps but were hurt by RyJo and Fiala being injured.

It will be interesting if Housley is the coach how him and Botts try to shape this d corps. Do they try to bring in really talented D or do they set a system in place and bring in compotent D that fit the system. (Smart, quick puck moving).

And if we go by imitation, the Pens Blueline is mostly acquired here modest trade. Compared to Nashville where the defenseman were predominantly high draft picks or high profile trade for a former high draft pick.

 

[Jim Bob]

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/06/12...fleury-the-best-team-player-in-all-of-sports/

After winning the Stanley Cup on Sunday night, Rutherford made sure to mention just how vital the 32-year-old was during Pittsburgh’s run.

“Fleury is probably the best team player in all of sports,†said Rutherford.

“He carried us at different times of the season, carried us through two rounds of the playoffs, turned it over to Murray. I talked at the start of the season about keeping two goalies and these guys did exactly what I hoped they’d do. They got us the cup.â€

To his credit, Fleury never openly complained about losing the starting job to Matt Murray last year or this year. He could have easily become a distraction in the locker room, but he chose to handle the situation with class.

I still think that if Botts moves on from Lehner that MAF is the most likely replacement.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

And if we go by imitation, the Pens Blueline is mostly acquired here modest trade. Compared to Nashville where the defenseman were predominantly high draft picks or high profile trade for a former high draft pick.

I like to caution people who use the pens/chi/la as models. So I'll take this opportunity to do it again. Each of those teams have some extra factor that you can't "build" into a team. Crosby/Malkin and some contracts that are no longer legal to hand out.

 

[Chainshot]

I like to caution people who use the pens/chi/la as models. So I'll take this opportunity to do it again. Each of those teams have some extra factor that you can't "build" into a team. Crosby/Malkin and some contracts that are no longer legal to hand out.

And yet the end result of how the Pens Cup winning defense is built involves more modest/incremental improvement. My point is that it should take the heat out of talking points, not that it is precisely repeatable. It also shows it is possible to make moves and be effective without breaking the bank, asset wise.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I like to caution people who use the pens/chi/la as models. So I'll take this opportunity to do it again. Each of those teams have some extra factor that you can't "build" into a team. Crosby/Malkin and some contracts that are no longer legal to hand out.

Agree. I think GMJB should go with what he's got. Sabres have three two way centers (ROR, Reinhart, Larsson), a mobile defense (Ristolainen, Bogosian, McCabe, Antipin), and a superstar center (Eichel).

Find a coach who can harness the talent in a up-tempo, possession game. Add on defense. Sabres' model.

 

[TehDoak]

Re: Lehner.

First off, forget that we paid a price for him. It's immaterial. Second, there's a ton more than "can we make the playoffs with him" to consider.

If we can improve the team by moving Lehner, that we should move him. That's it.

 

[Sabre Dance]

What is your definition of a dependable starting goalie?

His health is my biggest concern. I cant say Lehner is over his injury issues yet.

 

[The Red Helmet]

The ironic part is that Talbot basically cost the Oilers a 2nd and 3rd which isn't far off from what the Sabres gave up for Lehner.

Talbot this year looks a lot better than Talbot did last year. And honestly, Talbot is marginally better than Lehner, IMO.

They are both OK starting goalies. Neither is hot trash and neither is elite.

No, they gave up the 21st pick in a great draft. That would be comparable to giving up a top ten this draft. The Oilers gave up a late 2nd and a third. Not even close to comparable.

 

[Jame]

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/06/12...fleury-the-best-team-player-in-all-of-sports/



I still think that if Botts moves on from Lehner that MAF is the most likely replacement.

I just can't see the logic in moving on from Lehner at this time. There's no pressure to do so (expansion, cap, free agency, etc).

Could GMBH move him, sure... but I would only expect that if a team can trying to get him (Calgary?). I don't think GMBH is trying to actively move him, to replace him with someone more expensive, older, etc

 

[cramdizzl]

No, they gave up the 21st pick in a great draft. That would be comparable to giving up a top ten this draft. The Oilers gave up a late 2nd and a third. Not even close to comparable.

That is an enormous assumption

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I just can't see the logic in moving on from Lehner at this time. There's no pressure to do so (expansion, cap, free agency, etc).

Could GMBH move him, sure... but I would only expect that if a team can trying to get him (Calgary?). I don't think GMBH is trying to actively move him, to replace him with someone more expensive, older, etc

I think that getting a pair of assets without really downgrading our post 2010 goalie performance is reason enough for that series of moves.

 

[The Red Helmet]

That is an enormous assumption

No it's not. All experts agree that 2015 was one of the best drafts in history. This year is considered a weak draft. Travis Koecny for example would have gone top 10.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I think that getting a pair of assets without really downgrading our post 2010 goalie performance is reason enough for that series of moves.

With ED looming it is a great year to find a good young goalie on the cheap if you find a belieber to take Lehner from you for equivalent or better price. Of course its worth the effort if improves the team.