Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 3

[Jim Bob]

If you compare Nilsson vs Lehner on the website someone gave in the other thread Nilsson's numbers are actually better.

https://www.dispellingvoodoo.com/save-v2-1617

God knows how anyone can argue Lehner is an average NHL starter, when he gets beaten on numbers by a fairly average back-up on the same team.

If you compare his numbers to another started behind a crap defense like Cam Talbot, it's ugly. Lehner is a bad goalie. I hope we trade him before ED to someone that is blind and relies only on basic SV% numbers. Is GMTM getting another gig soon?

Also last season The Chad's numbers are no worse than Lehner, arguably they are actually better than Lehner's.

https://public.tableau.com/shared/KD7Z6FYZX?:display_count=no

Lehner's stats last year were on par with Lundqvist.

I guess Lundy is horrible, too.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I'd go to war with him. I like his fire.

Whomever is number 2 can take that job any time they want. RL is not Botts guy. Nothing holding them back. History/salary/nothing.

The asset we have to spend on some good goalie (unless we go for Mason) we can get in return for Lehner.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

https://public.tableau.com/shared/KD7Z6FYZX?:display_count=no

Lehner's stats last year were on par with Lundqvist.

I guess Lundy is horrible, too.

Every goalie has a bad season, Lehner is consistently underperforming.

 

[Jim Bob]

Every goalie has a bad season, Lehner is consistently underperforming.

How is he under performing if the place you are using as proof said he was above average overall last season?

 

[Jim Bob]

The asset we have to spend on some good goalie (unless we go for Mason) we can get in return for Lehner.

If you think Mason is better than Lehner....

https://public.tableau.com/shared/KD7Z6FYZX?:display_count=no&:showVizHome=no

 

[Beerz]

I'm not a huge Lehner fan... I disliked the trade immensely.... but some of you are making him out to be a horrible goaltender..which he isn't.

He's young..in terms of goaltenders and is pretty inconsistent. He can take the team to the playoffs..but I don't know how far he can take us.

I'm fine with him for next season I guess

 

[Aladyyn]

Mason is an actual prima donna who supposedly has a beef with the Flyers FO and that's why he's on the way out.

But it's Lehner who's a distraction and hurting the team and we should replace him.

 

[Djp]

The difference was that's 2015 was an elite draft, so #21 in that draft would be a player that would be a top 10 pick in virtually every other draft. 2015 was one of the best drafts in the last 20 years, right up there with 2003,2008 and 2013. The guys who we could have drafted at #21 are high end prospects/young proven NHL players like Konecny.

2015 had McDavid and Eichel and a few other good players in the top 10.

Beyond those the only player to do anything is Aho.

Like I said--check back in 5 years and we will see what this draft actually had.

every draft they say there are strong prospects but historically 21-25 have little chance of being top line/top Dman. I think the only top line player drafted in that range was Giroux.

Let's put it this way, we finished bottom 8 both years we had Lehner on this team. Who would you rather have long term as our goalie? 26 year old Lehner who has proven he isn't a high end starter or arguably the best goalie prospect in the league or at the very worst a top 3 goalie prospect in Ilya Samsonov.

Sabres should have just rolled with a 1a/1b platoon the last two years with a cheap goalie like Nilsson and then Ullmark or another Nilsson type goalie while drafting Samsonov at #21. Samsonov is ready to take the reins within the next 2 years. Oh well, that's what Buffalo gets for hiring Timmy Murray who wants "HIS" guys, Tim Murray gets who Tim Murray wants, regardless of cost.

Not a single non Sabre fan would rather have Robin Lehner then Ilya Samsonov.

Samsanov has proven nothing. Who is to say he would have cme over for Russia and the KHL anyway.


How old was Miller when he became the starter? How old was Hasek?

Goelies take longer to develop and have proven to be an utter crapshoot.

I had no issue of them trading for Lehner with the 1st and get someone who would be 24 to start 2015/16 season

Too bad the 2012 draft was straight garbage. Actually pretty comparable to this upcoming draft. The prospects available at #21 in 2015 are easily top 10 picks in the 2012 draft, just like they would be in this draft. Guys like Konecny,Boeser, Roslovic, White etc are easily top 3-8 picks in 2017.

hindsight is 20/20. because there isnt a generational talent the draft sucks---right??

Things you don't ever get at 21: a guaranteed starting quality player. Doesn't matter what draft year. Ever.

Thing got by trading 21: a starting quality player.

Thing also got by trading 21: people who never stop crying about something they're wrong about

people dont understand historical drafted at 21 and what actually comes out. They are not start players but people like to think they are the next sliced bread.

I didn't like the Lehner trade

I think Lehner is a perfectly fine starting goalie

Not sure why for some the first prevents them from appreciating the second

because they are biased toward young talent and think everyone will be future star players.

I've given my negative opinion on Lehner long before anyone actually gave advanced stats despite his "good" SV%. The eye test is enough with Lehner, he is not a quality starter...

But not factoring the defense and the overall team play doesnt matter?

I'm not a huge Lehner fan... I disliked the trade immensely.... but some of you are making him out to be a horrible goaltender..which he isn't.

He's young..in terms of goaltenders and is pretty inconsistent. He can take the team to the playoffs..but I don't know how far he can take us.

I'm fine with him for next season I guess

he gets a 1 yr extension given a new GM.

 

[Dingo44]

Maybe an admin can pull out all of the Lehner nonsense? It's been the same argument for two years and has nothing to do with the roster in 2017-18.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Maybe an admin can pull out all of the Lehner nonsense? It's been the same argument for two years and has nothing to do with the roster in 2017-18.

I must have missed the news where we re-signed him. Care to provide a link?

 

[darcyRegier]

Any guesses what the Eichel line will look like next season? Assuming the roster relatively stays the same. I haven't seen Botsy say anything about it.

A lot of people (including myself) want to see Reinhart center his own line, so that's an empty RW spot.

I would love to see:

Baptiste - Eichel - Nylander

But that means that both of those guys will have to make opening night roster, which is by no means a given at this point in time. Maybe substitute Girgensons in one of the wing spots?

Baileys speed would compliment Jack's game very well also.

 

[toomuchsauce]

Mason is an actual prima donna who supposedly has a beef with the Flyers FO and that's why he's on the way out.

But it's Lehner who's a distraction and hurting the team and we should replace him.

Steve Mason sucks, has always sucked, and will continue to suck, forever. Anyone who says otherwise is probably online Steve Mason himself or a close relative. Sweet jeezus why is his name in the "Buffalo Sabres roster speculation" thread?

 

[Dreakon13]

Any guesses what the Eichel line will look like next season? Assuming the roster relatively stays the same. I haven't seen Botsy say anything about it.

A lot of people (including myself) want to see Reinhart center his own line, so that's an empty RW spot.

My thought in a perfect world would be something around Girgs and Jack. If I recall they had a brief stint together and looked very competent. Maybe...

Girgensons - Eichel - Baptiste ?

Kane - Eichel - Girgensons ?

Don't want to see Reinhart on his wing, preferably. And don't want to see him stuck dragging Moulson or Ennis around. Give Nylander another season in Roch to cook, to start with at least.

Even Kane isn't ideal but we only have so many options... and I think they started to figure it out towards the end of last year.

 

[toomuchsauce]

Mason is an actual prima donna who supposedly has a beef with the Flyers FO and that's why he's on the way out.

But it's Lehner who's a distraction and hurting the team and we should replace him.

"Tyrod can't throw over the middle so let's sign Ryan Leaf"

 

[Husko]

I'd do a 6 year, 38 million dollar offersheet for Dumolin.

Tell me I'm crazy.

 

[Baccus]

U Crazy.

 

[gallagt01]

I'd do a 6 year, 38 million dollar offersheet for Dumolin.

Tell me I'm crazy.

What would the comp be?

 

[Sabre Dance]

My thought in a perfect world would be something around Girgs and Jack. If I recall they had a brief stint together and looked very competent. Maybe...

Girgensons - Eichel - Baptiste ?

Kane - Eichel - Girgensons ?

Don't want to see Reinhart on his wing, preferably. And don't want to see him stuck dragging Moulson or Ennis around. Give Nylander another season in Roch to cook, to start with at least.

Even Kane isn't ideal but we only have so many options... and I think they started to figure it out towards the end of last year.

Botterill described players that would work best with Eichel are puck retrievers that get the puck back to Eichel so he can do his thing.

 

[joshjull]

I'd do a 6 year, 38 million dollar offersheet for Dumolin.

Tell me I'm crazy.

You're crazy

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

jeez, Im not advocating for Mason but we may do...Im not the GM. Just mentioned him as he's probably the best of the UFAs. For me the clear best cheap candidate is Grubauer. Run them 1A/1B with Ullmark and see who wins the starter job (or Nilsson if Ullmark is picked by Vegas). Frankly IMO Nilsson is no worse than Lehner anyway...

 

[Husko]

What would the comp be?

A first, second, and third

 

[Sabre the Win]

https://public.tableau.com/shared/KD7Z6FYZX?:display_count=no

Lehner's stats last year were on par with Lundqvist.

I guess Lundy is horrible, too.

He is 36.

Now I was a huge advocate for Cam Talbot and people got upset but Cam Talbot is above average. I compared the two.

https://ibb.co/c5SEiF

See for yourself. Talbot is even older but nowhere past prime like your trying to do with Lundqvist who is now playing below average.

Us with Cam Talbot would be better off. This a clear I told this board so.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

He is 36.

Now I was a huge advocate for Cam Talbot and people got upset but Cam Talbot is above average. I compared the two.

https://ibb.co/c5SEiF

See for yourself. Talbot is even older but nowhere past prime like your trying to do with Lundqvist who is now playing below average.

Us with Cam Talbot would be better off. This a clear I told this board so.

It gets uglier when you compare the 3 seasons prior numbers (12/13 to 15/16):
https://public.tableau.com/shared/JJ2R3X3R8?:display_count=no

Like Lehner last year had relatively good year to his prior 3 seasons and he was still worse than the average you see from semi-decent starting goalies like Tlabot. Lehner's 3 years prior numbers are comparable to G's like Niemi, Ward and Kari freaking Ramo...here, if you don't believe it have a look https://public.tableau.com/shared/F7BXFSY25?:display_count=no . Ramo's numbers are actually better

Of course these are 5v5 numbers, but considering how bad his post to post movement and rebound control are, I can't see how he compensate for this on the PK long term. Frankly after looking at all this I would not give him any deal and expose him to ED if he's not traded before for even modest return (preferred option). There are silly teams out there like WPG and CGY that may take him.

 

[Icicle]

Carrier and Rodriguez should be Eichels wings unless we sign an expensive shiny toy.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I like Lehner, Ive supported him through the ups and downs. I think he has the ability to be a top 10 goalie. Murray believed he would be a top goalie, so I supported the trade.

That said, Lehner is not dependable at this point in his career. I would understand if Botts moves him.