Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 3

[gallagt01]

Philly isn't trading Sanheim for a goalie of Lehner's caliber.

 

[TehDoak]

Gm bighead said he was fine with lehner. Now rumors are he's kicking tires.

It might be in the realm of possibility that lehner doesn't want to be in buffalo.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Gm bighead said he was fine with lehner. Now rumors are he's kicking tires.

It might be in the realm of possibility that lehner doesn't want to be in buffalo.

He said G is not priority to fix and D is (I agree) pretty much before talking to Sabres staff and without watching Lehner (he referenced his play from 5+ years ago as the positive impression he has ). If you think he couldn't change his mind by now based on team reports and tape, then I don't know what to say.

 

[pigpen65]

Botterill is killing it. If he can replace even half of Murray's "core" by opening day i would be ecstatic. Really even just getting rid of Kane and Lehner would be enough to make me optimistic for this season. Fixing the locker room and getting rid of a well established choker could amount to a good swing in wins.

 

[DJN21]

This is a great year to get good, possibly young goalies on the cheap (reinforced by expansion draft moves). That's a plenty good reason for me to make the switch or make a good acquisition to at least compete with Lehner if not replace him completely rather than gifting him starter job that he IMO doesn't deserve.

Peterson is a college kid, why are you even counting him in the starter conversation at this point. Even if he stays that means nothing for the starter plans for next 2-3 years. And if we don't plan to compete in next 3 years I'm giving up on this team...it's been a while.

Peterson is not 3 years from pushing lehner. You're right he's a college kid...he's put in 3 years at that very level playing just about every single night. Will he storm on the scene and win a vezina? No. But his body is ready for a moderate nhl work load as early as this year or next. But whatever floats your boat. Peterson shouldn't be a bonafied 1g this year obviously...hence why I said qualify lehner on a prove it contract to give Peterson a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[pigpen65]

Gm bighead said he was fine with lehner. Now rumors are he's kicking tires.

It might be in the realm of possibility that lehner doesn't want to be in buffalo.

Timing matches up almost perfectly with about how long it would take a new GM to sit down and watch through all of the games. And of course the overwhelming feeling any GM doing that with the Sabres games is going to come away with is, "Damn that guy sure choke a lot." Honestly he wouldn't even have to watch all of the games. Just watching the shootouts would be enough.

 

[Butt Ox]

Spending assets on a position that doesn't need addressing is not how I envision GMBH fixing the defense.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Peterson is not 3 years from pushing lehner. You're right he's a college kid...he's put in 3 years at that very level playing just about every single night. Will he storm on the scene and win a vezina? No. But his body is ready for a moderate nhl work load as early as this year or next. But whatever floats your boat. Peterson shouldn't be a bonafied 1g this year obviously...hence why I said qualify lehner on a prove it contract to give Peterson a light at the end of the tunnel.

From what people are saying he's Chicago-bound so I'm not wasting my time discussing him. I am optimistic about Ullmark but he may be gone too. Too many unknowns. Botts said G is nt priority but it may very soon be equal priority to fixing the D if we have Lehner who many of us do not like and no one else of value in the organization.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Spending assets on a position that doesn't need addressing is not how I envision GMBH fixing the defense.

You can sell the rights to Lehner and use the assets to get one of the other cheap available goalies like Grubauer. I am not saying let's break the bank for another G, but we should get something back for Lehner and we don't have to spend much on his replacement.

 

[ZZamboni]

Spending assets on a position that doesn't need addressing is not how I envision GMBH fixing the defense.

Agree. Pigpen asset management is wrong as usual.

 

[sabrebuild]

Timing matches up almost perfectly with about how long it would take a new GM to sit down and watch through all of the games. And of course the overwhelming feeling any GM doing that with the Sabres games is going to come away with is, "Damn that guy sure choke a lot." Honestly he wouldn't even have to watch all of the games. Just watching the shootouts would be enough.

The timing matches up..... wow

 

[Jame]

Botterill is killing it. If he can replace even half of Murray's "core" by opening day i would be ecstatic. Really even just getting rid of Kane and Lehner would be enough to make me optimistic for this season. Fixing the locker room and getting rid of a well established choker could amount to a good swing in wins.

I get a good chuckle every time you post this...

 

[Sabreality]

Anybody who can definitively say Raanta...or Grubauer...or Lehner will be the better goalie going forwards is full of ****. Grubauer, he of 66 NHL starts, in a cushy gig backing up a Vezina goalie, on a great team, could just as well come here and look worse than Lehner. Crystal balling young goalies is a fruitless endeavor in this league.

Moving assets to only get a potentially similar goalie as Lehner makes no sense when he's under team control and who can now be assessed playing behind a better team and new system.

But theres no sense in even debating this with some.

 

[Baccus]

I'm not sold on Lehner as some type of top end goalie, but that's an argument that literally nobody has made for him. He's perfectly fine as a starter over the next couple years, he will not get a contract that is untenable for the Sabres current cap, so frankly, why the hell would you be trying to find another goalie right now? Granted if you can trade Lehner for a top 4 D, sure, but you can't so what are you talking about except yet another incessant cry about the Lehner trade? You know, that late 1st that would have been spent on a goalie prospect that still wouldn't be NHL ready anyway...

 

[DJN21]

From what people are saying he's Chicago-bound so I'm not wasting my time discussing him. I am optimistic about Ullmark but he may be gone too. Too many unknowns. Botts said G is nt priority but it may very soon be equal priority to fixing the D if we have Lehner who many of us do not like and no one else of value in the organization.

It's not a priority and won't be. Lehner is under team control. We can still pitch Peterson an dull mark may not be taken...btw if you put stock in ullmark but none in lehner that's a whole other discussion to be had.

We can find a goalie in a non playoff caliber year easily.

I can bring in a miller, niemi, halal etc etc without batting an eye and coast through a year hoping for a playoff birth.

Young goalies become available...i.e how talbot, lehner, and Jones all moved...

Fix the damn defense and let lehner discussions go.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

I'm not against upgrading from Lehner.

BUT there is no obvious upgrade in house (Ullmark is still too big a ? to put in that role, let's see how he handles being an NHL backup first assuming he doesn't get picked by Vegas).

And I'm not in favor of using assets to address that position this offseason when we have bigger fish to fry.

Lehner has his flaws, but he should be good enough for this team to make the playoffs if the D and coaching are improved. Is he good enough to be a contender? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm not worried about that right now. And we certainly have the cap space to afford him on a 1-2 year deal even if he gets something crazy in arbitration.

I think the most prudent thing to do is fix the D, see what the team looks like with better coaching, see how our G prospects end up (while the chances may not be great he actually signs, I still think Petersen will consider the Sabres), and re-assess our goaltending situation next year. Is Lehner's issues (especially in the shootout) fixable with better coaching? I don't know, but I think it's worth it to spend another season finding out especially given what else needs to be done to improve this team.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I have a feeling if Lehner is going to be moved its 1 of 2 reasons.

1. Does not want to be in Buffalo or players don't want his ego in Buffalo (locker room cancer)
2. Wants too much $$ and term while holding arbitration eligibility over managements heads.

I like Raanta, I like Grubauer, either one of these guys would suffice. Bring Ullmark up to play back-up and sign Petersson to starting goalie Rochester.

 

[BarbadosSlim]

I have a feeling if Lehner is going to be moved its 1 of 2 reasons.

1. Does not want to be in Buffalo or players don't want his ego in Buffalo (locker room cancer)
2. Wants too much $$ and term while holding arbitration eligibility over managements heads.

I like Raanta, I like Grubauer, either one of these guys would suffice. Bring Ullmark up to play back-up and sign Petersson to starting goalie Rochester.

What is this obsession with moving Lehner? Seriously. I get we paid a premium for him, maybe more than he's 'worth'. But we have a relatively young goalie that put up great numbers. Realistically, who is coming in that outperforms Lehner, that doesn't cost assets that hurts the team?

 

[Der Jaeger]

well, Hextall would hang up on you for that one.

Not sure why the hurry to move on from Lehner, agreed no interest in MAF and the stop gaps arent an upgrade over Lehner. He's 25, lets see if theres another step up in his game. fix the D + new coaches system and lets see what we have for another 60 starts with Lehner. Moving on now is simply premature. Sorry Lehner haters.

Possibly. I don't think Lehner is worth nothing, nor Sanheim worth the moon. Especially with the depth of Philly's defensive prospects.

And BTW, not a Lehner hater. Just talking hypotheticals if GMJB wanted to trade him.

Philly isn't trading Sanheim for a goalie of Lehner's caliber.

See above comment.

Botterill is killing it. If he can replace even half of Murray's "core" by opening day i would be ecstatic. Really even just getting rid of Kane and Lehner would be enough to make me optimistic for this season. Fixing the locker room and getting rid of a well established choker could amount to a good swing in wins.

If I write this enough, people will start to believe.
(Morgan Freeman's voice)

 

[darcyRegier]

Lehner is a serviceable starter not a quality one. A quality starter would be a top 10-12 goalie capable of playing ~65+ games. And also able to win a single shootout. As much of a gimmick the shootouts are it is still a major component of regular season play. We simply have to improve in the shootout if we want to make the playoffs we can't be giving away those extra points like we did.

And the price we paid has to be considered when it comes to Lehner. Because of our idiot ex GM who wanted to help out Uncle Bryan we gave away a first in an elite draft for Lehner AND took back a cap dump. No other team was offering anything close to #21 for Lehner and Murray idiotically overpaid immensely. Edmonton was offering #16...for Lehner AND #18. They weren't giving up a first for Lehner let alone take a cap dump. The Legwand contract should have been worth a minimum of a 3rd round pick coming to Buffalo.

Put it this way, #21 in 2015 could have been Ilya Samsonov, Travis Konecny, Colin White, Brock Boeser, Jack Roslovic, and Anthony Beauvillier. Every one of those prospects would easily be drafted in the 3-8 range in this draft. Puts the Lehner trade in a sickening perspective. Makes me sick thinking about what we gave up for a middle of the pack at best goalie who isn't even that young. I'd prefer if we moved Lehner and got a first back and started fresh in our hunt for a high end starter.

That 1st was going to Colorado in the ROR trade if we didn't trade for Lehner. This is also a confirmed fact. Would've taken the place of the 2nd. I don't get why so many people overlook this as it just makes the Lehner trade look like an overpayment for Lehner when we actually gave the Avs less than what they were willing to give for O'Rielly. ROR >>> Colin White

My question is what if Murray had thrown in Compher/Zadorov with the 2nd for Lehner if he'd sent the 1st to the Avs? How does that trade look?

Also what's with the Lehner hate? The dude was top 5 in GAA and Sv% if I remember correctly. And he's only 25. That's crazy young for a goalie that put up numbers like that. I don't think anyone else in the NHL can even compare with that achievement besides Gibson.

 

[OkimLom]

Lehner is going to keep you in games. He most likely won't win you games if you're team has a bad night. He's a cost controlled goalie who can control the crease until one of your young goalies has shown enough ability to take the crease. Thats part of the reason why Murray had faith in the guy.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

That 1st was going to Colorado in the ROR trade if we didn't trade for Lehner. This is also a confirmed fact. Would've taken the place of the 2nd. I don't get why so many people overlook this as it just makes the Lehner trade look like an overpayment for Lehner when we actually gave the Avs less than what they were willing to give for O'Rielly. ROR >>> Colin White

My question is what if Murray had thrown in Compher/Zadorov with the 2nd for Lehner if he'd sent the 1st to the Avs? How does that trade look?

Also what's with the Lehner hate? The dude was top 5 in GAA and Sv% if I remember correctly. And he's only 25. That's crazy young for a goalie that put up numbers like that. I don't think anyone else in the NHL can even compare with that achievement besides Gibson.

No, Lehner was not top 5 in those stats.15th in svp (behind his backup) and 35th in gaa. And where are you getting that if we didn't make the Lehner trade #21 was going to Colorado? The Lehner trade was done first. And now does that make things any better if it even is true? Murray was planning on trading even MORE for RoR? It's not like we got a steal for him, we paid full trade value possibly even overpayment. Not because of his talent and production but the simple fact he was an impending UFA. Thank god that idiot Murray is gone. He virtually ruined the rebuild on his own. Thankfully he was fired before he set the Sabres back another 7 years.

 

[JThorne]

That 1st was going to Colorado in the ROR trade if we didn't trade for Lehner. This is also a confirmed fact. Would've taken the place of the 2nd. I don't get why so many people overlook this as it just makes the Lehner trade look like an overpayment for Lehner when we actually gave the Avs less than what they were willing to give for O'Rielly. ROR >>> Colin White

My question is what if Murray had thrown in Compher/Zadorov with the 2nd for Lehner if he'd sent the 1st to the Avs? How does that trade look?

Also what's with the Lehner hate? The dude was top 5 in GAA and Sv% if I remember correctly. And he's only 25. That's crazy young for a goalie that put up numbers like that. I don't think anyone else in the NHL can even compare with that achievement besides Gibson.

Matt Murray?

 

[Der Jaeger]

No, Lehner was not top 5 in those stats.15th in svp (behind his backup) and 35th in gaa. And where are you getting that if we didn't make the Lehner trade #21 was going to Colorado? The Lehner trade was done first. And now does that make things any better if it even is true? Murray was planning on trading even MORE for RoR? It's not like we got a steal for him, we paid full trade value possibly even overpayment. Not because of his talent and production but the simple fact he was an impending UFA. Thank god that idiot Murray is gone. He virtually ruined the rebuild on his own. Thankfully he was fired before he set the Sabres back another 7 years.

The Lehner and ROR trades were announced separately but worked by Murray at the same time. I can't remember where I read/heard it, but the ROR deal was Grigorenko, Zadorov, and a 1st. When the 1st went for Lehner, because the Sabres would have been outbid with pick 33, Murray moved the first for Lehner.

The ROR deal then morphed to 33 and Compher with McGinn added in on Colorado's side.

 

[Aladyyn]

Botterill is killing it. If he can replace even half of Murray's "core" by opening day i would be ecstatic. Really even just getting rid of Kane and Lehner would be enough to make me optimistic for this season. Fixing the locker room and getting rid of a well established choker could amount to a good swing in wins.

So which 2 of Eichel, ROR, Reinhart, Ristolainen do you want him to trade?