Roster Speculation 2015-16 Pt. III

[Jame]

Pronger wanted to be traded from Edmonton and players like OEL wont get traded in the salary cap era because you will likely never get a player like that back.

So you're saying Arizona will keep him for 3 years while they are a bottom feeder going through a rebuild and then trade him when he's a pending free agent for far less... instead of trading him for a haul of assets that actually assist the rebuild and would be around to contribute when they come out of it?

“Shane Doan is not going anywhere. Oliver Ekman-Larsson is a player we would certainly be very very reluctant to part with,” - Maloney January 2015

Sounds like they will be listening to offers...

 

[Ghills23]

So you're saying Arizona will keep him for 3 years while they are a bottom feeder going through a rebuild and then trade him when he's a pending free agent for far less... instead of trading him for a haul of assets that actually assist the rebuild and would be around to contribute when they come out of it?

“Shane Doan is not going anywhere. Oliver Ekman-Larsson is a player we would certainly be very very reluctant to part with,†- Maloney January 2015

Sounds like they will be listening to offers...

The question I'm weighing is what is more important to adding to the core. ROR or someone like OEL. I think The defensive depth of Ristolainen, Bogosian, Pysyk, Zadorov, McCabe is already pretty good and only needs to be supplemented by a complimentary LHD. I think ROR would be a better addition to the current core. Question is what is the package to get ROR.

 

[Moskau]

So you're saying Arizona will keep him for 3 years while they are a bottom feeder going through a rebuild and then trade him when he's a pending free agent for far less... instead of trading him for a haul of assets that actually assist the rebuild and would be around to contribute when they come out of it?

“Shane Doan is not going anywhere. Oliver Ekman-Larsson is a player we would certainly be very very reluctant to part with,†- Maloney January 2015

Sounds like they will be listening to offers...

You really don't think they're going to lock him up long term before it comes to that?

He'd be the first major talent drafted in the salary cap era that was traded near the end of his contract that I can think of. Seguin is the only high profile young talent that has lived up to expectations and then been traded but the situation was much different. OEL is a top 10 maybe top 5 defensemen in the league right now. He's going to be locked extended sometime. We're not talking about Evander Kane, JVR or Erik Johnson. OEL is far more established and has lived up to his potential. I just can't see him being on any team but Arizona before he's 35.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The question I'm weighing is what is more important to adding to the core. ROR or someone like OEL. I think The defensive depth of Ristolainen, Bogosian, Pysyk, Zadorov, McCabe is already pretty good and only needs to be supplemented by a complimentary LHD. I think ROR would be a better addition to the current core. Question is what is the package to get ROR.

But remember that defensive depth (Zadorov) would be used to acquire OEL, so it would be a wash in terms of depth but a big upgrade in terms of quality for the current roster, and likely the future roster as well (IMO).

Also ROR is only under contract for one more year whereas OEL is signed until 2019, so we'd have to give up a lot more to get OEL but there would be a lot less risk of him leaving. I assume TM would try to get whichever was available. Even both, if possible. There fit the description of what he's looking for exactly.

 

[Jame]

The question I'm weighing is what is more important to adding to the core. ROR or someone like OEL. I think The defensive depth of Ristolainen, Bogosian, Pysyk, Zadorov, McCabe is already pretty good and only needs to be supplemented by a complimentary LHD. I think ROR would be a better addition to the current core. Question is what is the package to get ROR.

I'm not comfortable entrusting the Left Side to Zadorov and McCabe...

I think we are far deeper at center, where we have more "sure things" in Eichel and Reinhart, and more proven young talent in Girgensons and Larsson.

Honestly... I'm really confident in Larsson. Yea, small sample size... but the advanced metrics showed us in the previous season the type of possession dog and defensive stalwart he was going to be, bumped up into an "oreilly-like" role this year, and the offense came with it.

I've been cheerleading for Oreilly specifically, and other players like him, for three years... it just so happened that along the way, we may have developed our own.

 

[Jame]

You really don't think they're going to lock him up long term before it comes to that?

No. I don't think anyone besides Shane Doan actually wants to be in Arizona, when they'll likely have the option to play wherever they want.

He'd be the first major talent drafted in the salary cap era that was traded near the end of his contract that I can think of. Seguin is the only high profile young talent that has lived up to expectations and then been traded but the situation was much different. OEL is a top 10 maybe top 5 defensemen in the league right now. He's going to be locked extended sometime. We're not talking about Evander Kane, JVR or Erik Johnson. OEL is far more established and has lived up to his potential. I just can't see him being on any team but Arizona before he's 35.

Well if you are going to narrow the list and remove guys drafted in the top 5, with big contracts, and lots of term left....

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

You also have to wonder if they're going to be tanking next year. They might need a Tank Commander - a role Hodgson was born to play.

 

[Beerz]

1. I think adding a top pair capable LD is priority
2. I've been told that my offer for Staal is CRAY CRAY, so clearly I should be able to get a much much better player.

I listen to feedback... contrary to popular belief

Fair enough.

 

[Heraldic]

OEL is an UFA in 4 seasons... so basically, he's on the trade block in 3 years or less.

Arizona is YEARS and YEARS away from contending...

They can cash OEL in now for a massive haul. He's not going to be around when they are relevant again.

Purely from asset management and team building perspective you're right.

But Arizona operates in a different reality than Buffalo or Toronto. If OEL is not going to stay with them, they trade him 2-3 years from now. Right now they badly lack talent. They need OEL's stardom to survive through the years that Domi, Duclair, Dvorak, Samuelsson and the 3rd overall pick take to develop into roster players in Arizona. That's not going to happen next season or not even the season after that.

If they now trade OEL for bunch of futures, they lose maybe the only enticing piece they have in their roster.Team that is suffering heavy financial losses and is in a risk of being relocated, can't do that. After 2-3 years, they likely have at least few of Domi, Dvorak, Duclair and 3rd overall to compensate the loss of OEL - or they might be able to re-sign him.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Its very interesting to see how many fans don't include Grigorenko in their mock lineups for next season. Do most of you feel a trade will happen?

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Would you take Semin and Ward if it meant moving up to 5 from 21?

I know I would easily do that, and add some.

#5+Semin+Ward for #21+Grigorenko+#31

Draft Eichel and Hanifin and our need for a LHD is gone.Ward only has one year left.Semin's contract is horrendous but if it means being able to get a top 5 pick and a guarantee of walking away with Eichel and one of Strome/Marner/Hanifin then I easily do it.If Toronto is trying to do a deal like this then let's beat them to the punch.We have far better assets and way more cap flexibility anyway.Semin has 3 years left.I think we can afford to eat that contract easily, considering Reinhart and Eichel will be on ELCs over those 3 years,Gionta's deal is done before that and Moulson will only have one year left too.

 

[Jame]

Purely from asset management and team building perspective you're right.

But Arizona operates in a different reality than Buffalo or Toronto. If OEL is not going to stay with them, they trade him 2-3 years from now. Right now they badly lack talent. They need OEL's stardom to survive through the years that Domi, Duclair, Dvorak, Samuelsson and the 3rd overall pick take to develop into roster players in Arizona. That's not going to happen next season or not even the season after that.

If they now trade OEL for bunch of futures, they lose maybe the only enticing piece they have in their roster.Team that is suffering heavy financial losses and is in a risk of being relocated, can't do that. After 2-3 years, they likely have at least few of Domi, Dvorak, Duclair and 3rd overall to compensate the loss of OEL - or they might be able to re-sign him.

Without OEL, they'd probably have McEichel...

Honestly, I don't think OEL changes the gate in Arizona one dime. They are a terrible team with or without him for the next few years.

They could trade him sooner and get a much bigger haul of assets that fit right in their rebuild window. Or they could wait... and get less.

 

[Moskau]

Well if you are going to narrow the list and remove guys drafted in the top 5, with big contracts, and lots of term left....

How did I narrow the list? There is no list. Name a player drafted in the salary cap era who was top 10 at his position and traded. I really can't think of one. And with guys like Jeff Petry being worth over $6 Million on the open market I'd be willing to bet if one of these types of players ever is traded it likely wont be a defensemen.

 

[Heraldic]

Without OEL, they'd probably have McEichel...

Exactly. Now you might know why they brought up that OEL might be available JANUARY.

They knew that tanking last season was a helluva risk, but the reward was just too big to not try to. I really think they considered that would trading OEL be worth the risk. Most likely they didn't get offers good enough. OEL is a player you just don't get rid of to better your odds of securing McEichel, but if you had a great return + increase the odds significantly, you would just consider it...

Honestly, I don't think OEL changes the gate in Arizona one dime. They are a terrible team with or without him for the next few years.

Of course one player won't make a lot of difference in a team - not changing a bottom-feeder into playoff team - that's not really relevant, though. But that player might be the only reason people go to watch the games and that player might be the difference between being just one of the bottom feeders and being the absolute suckage in the league. It means A LOT in the reality where Arizona lives financial and hockey market wise.

Arizona is not only fighting for points, it's also fighting for its existence in NHL.

They could trade him sooner and get a much bigger haul of assets that fit right in their rebuild window. Or they could wait... and get less.

That's a thinking you can conclude if you're a GM of Toronto or Buffalo. I think it's likely that Arizona won't be competitive enough after 3 years to get OEL extended. But you just never know how the players develop etc. The team just might be competitive enough to get OEL extended. You just never know, and when you don't know, you just can't trade a player like OEL in a situation where Arizona right now is.

 

[Jame]

How did I narrow the list? There is no list. Name a player drafted in the salary cap era who was top 10 at his position and traded. I really can't think of one. And with guys like Jeff Petry being worth over $6 Million on the open market I'd be willing to bet if one of these types of players ever is traded it likely wont be a defensemen.

Name one top 10 player at his position that was in a situation like the Coyotes? How many bottom feeding rebuilding teams have top 10 players in their prime? It's a silly standard to base anything on.

Some would argue Vanek and/or Pominville were top 10 wingers when they were traded... or at least close. Pominville finished 9th in scoring among wingers the year before he was traded - with term left.

 

[Jame]

Of course one player won't make a lot of difference in a team - not changing a bottom-feeder into playoff team - that's not really relevant, though. But that player might be the only reason people go to watch the games and that player might be the difference between being just one of the bottom feeders and being the absolute suckage in the league. It means A LOT in the reality where Arizona lives financial and hockey market wise.

I'm specifically stating i don't think that's the case at all.

Arizona is not only fighting for points, it's also fighting for its existence in NHL.

debatable

That's a thinking you can conclude if you're a GM of Toronto or Buffalo. I think it's likely that Arizona won't be competitive enough after 3 years to get OEL extended. But you just never know how the players develop etc. The team just might be competitive enough to get OEL extended. You just never know, and when you don't know, you just can't trade a player like OEL in a situation where Arizona right now is.

For 5 first rounders at various stages of development? Sure you could, depending on how you felt about said players.

If you believe that Grigorenko is going to be a top 6 offensive center.... and Zadorov a top pairing beast... and you can resurrect Hodgson into the 40-50 pt secondary scorer... while adding a 1st this year, and a very likely to be top 10 next year... you still don't do it?

If like me, you think Grigo is going to be nothing special, and Zadorov hockey IQ leaves too much to chance... then of course you don't do this deal

 

[Sabretip]

So you're saying Arizona will keep him for 3 years while they are a bottom feeder going through a rebuild and then trade him when he's a pending free agent for far less... instead of trading him for a haul of assets that actually assist the rebuild and would be around to contribute when they come out of it?

“Shane Doan is not going anywhere. Oliver Ekman-Larsson is a player we would certainly be very very reluctant to part with,” - Maloney January 2015

Sounds like they will be listening to offers...

Yeah, right - in the same way that Murray would listen to an offer for the # 2 pick if it consisted of a return of Crosby, Toews or some unfathomable return.

I think ROR would be a better addition to the current core. Question is what is the package to get ROR.

Its very interesting to see how many fans don't include Grigorenko in their mock lineups for next season. Do most of you feel a trade will happen?

Yes....it's the simple logic of numbers. After officially drafting Eichel, Sabres will have 6 centers under the age of 25, including Grigorenko, with only Eichel having never played an NHL game. That kind of depth means Murray can trade someone for help elsewhere. Of those, Grigorenko and Hodgson would arguably be 5th/6th on the chart.

Arizona is not only fighting for points, it's also fighting for its existence in NHL.

You just never know, and when you don't know, you just can't trade a player like OEL in a situation where Arizona right now is.

With so few identities for the casual fan to latch onto and keep some glimmer of interest alive in watching the team, the Coyotes need OEL for off-ice marketing as much as they need him on the ice. That was abundantly clear last season after they sold off Yandle, Vermette and embraced the rebuild - their in-game presentations, programs and promotions as well as broadcasts kept selling him up as their best player and future star (especially the part about his age relative to the 20+-goal season). I really can't see them relinquishing OEL unless it's in a package for the 1st or 2nd pick this year - which neither Edmonton nor Buffalo will consider.

 

[sabrebuild]

Exactly. Now you might know why they brought up that OEL might be available JANUARY.

They knew that tanking last season was a helluva risk, but the reward was just too big to not try to. I really think they considered that would trading OEL be worth the risk. Most likely they didn't get offers good enough. OEL is a player you just don't get rid of to better your odds of securing McEichel, but if you had a great return + increase the odds significantly, you would just consider it...



Of course one player won't make a lot of difference in a team - not changing a bottom-feeder into playoff team - that's not really relevant, though. But that player might be the only reason people go to watch the games and that player might be the difference between being just one of the bottom feeders and being the absolute suckage in the league. It means A LOT in the reality where Arizona lives financial and hockey market wise.

Arizona is not only fighting for points, it's also fighting for its existence in NHL.



That's a thinking you can conclude if you're a GM of Toronto or Buffalo. I think it's likely that Arizona won't be competitive enough after 3 years to get OEL extended. But you just never know how the players develop etc. The team just might be competitive enough to get OEL extended. You just never know, and when you don't know, you just can't trade a player like OEL in a situation where Arizona right now is.

To the last bit, you can make that trade if you get a blue chip young guy who your fans can see impact the team right away.

Switch girgs for grigs and I think they bite.

The only real problem with the original trade is that if Zona I want more. There's not enough guaranteed star potential to give up my only elite piece.

It's possible I draft marner who is more ready than ppl think, my glut of young fwd prospects make a jump and OEL can lead my young but deep d Corp to above average. To put it another way, they have too much hope that come this year they are looking at drafting Matthews etc and being ready to start competing again. When OEL is 26.

Not the likelier scenario but emotionally I could see it from stopping them from making that trade without a blue chip player involved.

 

[Jame]

Yeah, right - in the same way that Murray would listen to an offer for the # 2 pick if it consisted of a return of Crosby, Toews or some unfathomable return.

Remind me what Murray's quote was on trading Tyler Myers....

 

[tmack224]

I would be completely and utterly surprised if Arizona traded OEL. The dude is a stud and the only guarantee on that team.

If they are trading anything to get a couple high end pieces then its the 3rd pick.

In my opinion, they can offer that 3rd pick up for a top young offensive player to go with OEL. If not i think they draft Strome and move on.

Im with Jame on the Zadorov thing tho. Something about him make me feel like we are always going to be waiting for him to bust out and really perform at a consistent level.

If Murray is happy with a top 4 of Bogo, Risto, McCabe and Pysyk for years to come. He should put up Grigorenko, Zadorov, the 21st and 31st overall pick at the draft and get another Kane type deal.

Just not sure if a player like that is available...

Who could that player be?

 

[Sabretip]

OTTAWA - With three NHL goalies under contract, Bryan Murray knows something has to give.

The Ottawa Senators general manager told media Thursday morning that he has fielded a number of calls regarding his goaltending trio.

"There's some real interest by a number of teams that don't have the depth that we have that are looking for an NHL goaltender and we'll just have to filter through them as we do, as we're doing now, and try and get a deal that fits for the organization," Murray said.

He added there's no immediate timetable to get a deal done, but he anticipates something happening sooner rather than later.

"I think we have identified and know the teams that are looking, that are serious about looking. I think over the next week or two I'll probably get as good an offer as I'm going to get for it and I'll have to make a call at some point, hopefully before the draft, but it doesn't have to be then it can be around training camp if that's what it leads to."

http://www.tsn.ca/murray-knows-something-has-to-give-in-the-sens-crease-1.299780

I'd place the odds of Tim acquiring Lehner from Bryan before, or at, the draft at 75% minimum. There are too many variables (size, age, contract, experience, personal history, current market value) to support the theory of Tim targeting Lehner as a possible 1st choice.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

Would you take Semin and Ward if it meant moving up to 5 from 21?

I know I would easily do that, and add some.

#5+Semin+Ward for #21+Grigorenko+#31

Draft Eichel and Hanifin and our need for a LHD is gone.Ward only has one year left.Semin's contract is horrendous but if it means being able to get a top 5 pick and a guarantee of walking away with Eichel and one of Strome/Marner/Hanifin then I easily do it.If Toronto is trying to do a deal like this then let's beat them to the punch.We have far better assets and way more cap flexibility anyway.Semin has 3 years left.I think we can afford to eat that contract easily, considering Reinhart and Eichel will be on ELCs over those 3 years,Gionta's deal is done before that and Moulson will only have one year left too.

Keep adding to get the #5 from Carolina

 

[Jame]

I would be completely and utterly surprised if Arizona traded OEL. The dude is a stud and the only guarantee on that team.

If they are trading anything to get a couple high end pieces then its the 3rd pick.

In my opinion, they can offer that 3rd pick up for a top young offensive player to go with OEL. If not i think they draft Strome and move on.

Im with Jame on the Zadorov thing tho. Something about him make me feel like we are always going to be waiting for him to bust out and really perform at a consistent level.

If Murray is happy with a top 4 of Bogo, Risto, McCabe and Pysyk for years to come. He should put up Grigorenko, Zadorov, the 21st and 31st overall pick at the draft and get another Kane type deal.

Just not sure if a player like that is available...

Who could that player be?

Alexander Edler ?

 

[tmack224]

Alexander Edler ?

That would be interesting. Just turned 29. With Bogo and Risto playing top pair Minutes Edler could play 2nd pairing and prolong his career a little. Would be solid on the 2nd pair.

Is that to much to give for him though?

If he was 26 I would say now but he will be 30 before the end of next year.

 

[Jame]

That would be interesting. Just turned 29. With Bogo and Risto playing top pair Minutes Edler could play 2nd pairing and prolong his career a little. Would be solid on the 2nd pair.

Is that to much to give for him though?

If he was 26 I would say now but he will be 30 before the end of next year.

Bogo and Risto will play on opposite pairs...

Im not afraid of 30 year old defensemen who will improve our team tremendously over the next 3-4 years.