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Roster Speculation 2015-16 Part IV

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Sabretip

Sabretip

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Jan 13, 2010
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When looking at Girgensons and Larsson, it seems Larsson is better suited as a center because of his playmaking and faceoff skills while Girgensons, although a solid faceoff guy as well, has more strength and size to win battles along the boards as a winger. He's not as creative or natural playmaker as Larsson IMO.

Both are interchangeable but if it comes down to one playing out of their natural position to fit both in the top 9 (which they both deserve to be), I'd lobby for Larsson as a center and Girgensons as a winger.
 
Sabretip

Sabretip

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Interesting angles on offer sheets:

Didn’t ask DeBoer about potential offer sheets, but, as teams wonder if anyone will hit cap-tight Boston, Chicago or Los Angeles, a couple executives reminded of what San Jose did in 2010. The Sharks dropped one on the Blackhawks, a four-year, $14M contract for Niklas Hjalmarsson. It wasn’t a huge number with crazy bonuses (just $250,000), but once Chicago matched, it allowed San Jose to get Antti Niemi. Is a similar move out there?
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The obvious focus when debating offer sheets is looking at the player who gets one - but it's a chess move some teams might use to offer-sheet one player they know the incumbent team will match but in doing so, force a hardship on that team to let another player go.

On the possibility of an offer sheet for Dougie Hamilton? “I’d like to see the guy who does that to Jeremy Jacobs,” one GM said. Another countered, “I can think of someone.” Another reason teams think offer sheets will get matched: the compensation isn’t high enough.
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The revenge factor - of alienating another team's executives with the offer sheet - is one Regier was always fearful of but we know Murray (and presumably Pegula) isn't.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-defencemen-a-hot-commodity-at-draft/
 
TehDoak

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Sabretip said:
Interesting angles on offer sheets:



The obvious focus when debating offer sheets is looking at the player who gets one - but it's a chess move some teams might use to offer-sheet one player they know the incumbent team will match but in doing so, force a hardship on that team to let another player go.



The revenge factor - of alienating another team's executives with the offer sheet - is one Regier was always fearful of but we know Murray (and presumably Pegula) isn't.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-defencemen-a-hot-commodity-at-draft/
Click to expand...

The issue is that Usually the GM/front office turnover is so high by the time cap strapped front offices are in the position for "revenge", it's a different GM president. My issue is that to make it work, you have to pay double:

You pay the higher cost to make the offersheet work
You pay the high cost in draft picks.

Its very rare for franchise players who would be worth it to become available via RFA. The most efficient use of the offersheet is to do what San Jose did. Drive up the cost of secondary players to handcuff rivals. But, that can end up back firing as well, esp if the secondary player whose cost you drove up ends up being a comparable in arbitration.
 

Bps21*

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When they were talking offer sheets on wgr after they asked Murray about it...I actually yelled at my radio when they discussed a reason for not doing it being someone doing it back to you. SOMEONE ALREADY ****ING DID. so instead we should wait around and another team will do it to us again if they want to regardless of what I did or didn't do.

That said doing one this offseason is the epitome of ********. They can improve 30 points and still finish drafting near the bottom with 3 lottery spots. Give up the 2016 first...draft in buffalo with a pick no doubt going to be high...just ********. You don't get lottery protection or top 5 or 10 protection in an offer sheet. These are for when you already know you'll be at least good. Not for when you are digging out of back to back 50 loss seasons with a bunch of kids.
 
Sabresfansince1980

Sabresfansince1980

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TehDoak said:
The issue is that Usually the GM/front office turnover is so high by the time cap strapped front offices are in the position for "revenge", it's a different GM president. My issue is that to make it work, you have to pay double:

You pay the higher cost to make the offersheet work
You pay the high cost in draft picks.
Click to expand...

Bps21 said:
That said doing one this offseason is the epitome of ********. They can improve 30 points and still finish drafting near the bottom with 3 lottery spots. Give up the 2016 first...draft in buffalo with a pick no doubt going to be high...just ********. You don't get lottery protection or top 5 or 10 protection in an offer sheet. These are for when you already know you'll be at least good. Not for when you are digging out of back to back 50 loss seasons with a bunch of kids.
Click to expand...

This is why I wish RFA offer sheet talk would just die. Too expensive in most situations.
 
Pads of Irbe

Pads of Irbe

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So, if I get this correctly - because of his 18 game season-ending stretch Larsson now is better center/winger than Girgensons?

Ok.
 
jvirk

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Pads of Irbe said:
So, if I get this correctly - because of his 18 game season-ending stretch Larsson now is better center/winger than Girgensons?

Ok.
Click to expand...

THANKKK YOUUUUUU

Finally someone who agrees w/ me that everyone needs to stop loving larsson so much. A small stretch of decent games and all of a sudden he's pencilled into our top 6.
 
phosphene*

phosphene*

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jvirk said:
THANKKK YOUUUUUU

Finally someone who agrees w/ me that everyone needs to stop loving larsson so much. A small stretch of decent games and all of a sudden he's pencilled into our top 6.
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It's not the end of the world if Larsson plays himself into the top 6. Torrey Mitchell was our first line center last year. It's not like anyone has solidified a spot in the lineup outside of Bogosian, Risto, and Ennis. Girgensons could be inserted as center/winger on the first three lines depending on how well Reinhart and Eichel perform. We're afforded that luxury due to Zemgod's versatility and team-first attitude.

Should make for an interesting discussion all through the summer until training camp!
 
BCS

BCS

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jvirk said:
THANKKK YOUUUUUU

Finally someone who agrees w/ me that everyone needs to stop loving larsson so much. A small stretch of decent games and all of a sudden he's pencilled into our top 6.
Click to expand...

Larsson's advanced numbers portended that stretch. All he needed was a legit opportunity at the NHL level, and he made the most of it when his chance finally came.
 
Jacob582

Jacob582

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Is Larsson/Girgensons going to be the new debate now that the Ennis/Hodgson debate is dead?
 

boots electric

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Mar 12, 2008
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do the people that are up in arms at thinking larsson is better than girgensons realize that larsson was drafted two years earlier?

larsson's underlying stats being better than girgensons' doesn't mean that zemgus is trash, it means larsson is at a different stage of his development. zemgus is my favorite player on the team, but that doesn't mean i can't appreciate the huge leaps in development from someone else.

larsson showing he has the chops to play in the nhl and drive possession at his age is a really, really good thing for the future of the club. there's no reason to respond negatively to it
 
TehDoak

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Off season play v 39

To TB: 51st OA
To Buffalo: Matt Carle

To Vancouver: Grigerenko
To Buffalo: Lack, conditional pick next year (4th that can turn into a 2nd)

To Phx: Hodgson (25% retained)
To Buffalo: 3rd round pick

Sign: Downie to a 2 yr, 3.5M deal
Sign: Neuvirth to a 2 year, 2.5M deal

Kane-Eichel-Ennis
Moulson-Reinhart-Downie
Foligno-Girgensons-Gionta
Deslauriers-Schaller-XXXX
McCormick

Carle-Bogosion
Gorges-Ristoleinen
Zadorov-Pysyk
Weber

Lack
Neuvirth
 
FearTheBeard

FearTheBeard

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TehDoak said:
Off season play v 39

To TB: 51st OA
To Buffalo: Matt Carle

To Vancouver: Grigerenko
To Buffalo: Lack, conditional pick next year (4th that can turn into a 2nd)

To Phx: Hodgson (25% retained)
To Buffalo: 3rd round pick

Sign: Downie to a 2 yr, 3.5M deal
Sign: Neuvirth to a 2 year, 2.5M deal

Kane-Eichel-Ennis
Moulson-Reinhart-Downie
Foligno-Girgensons-Gionta
Deslauriers-Schaller-XXXX
McCormick

Carle-Bogosion
Gorges-Ristoleinen
Zadorov-Pysyk
Weber

Lack
Neuvirth
Click to expand...

Where is Larsson? And signing Neuvirth is redundant when we already have Johnson under contract
 
Sabresfansince1980

Sabresfansince1980

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Connor McDavid said:
Sample size is a myth, time is a construct
Click to expand...

Magic Beans said:
Time is a flat circle
Click to expand...

We will know whether Larsson is better than Girgensons once we find where they fall on the time/space continuum. Or, if Girgensons can manage to exceed the speed of light for just a few minutes and come out at Larsson's age and development, this will also provide a definitive answer. Until then I'm afraid we will have to rely on pointless bickering.
 
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