Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[SI]

delete

 

[SI]

Barzal the Solution. That’s a new one. I don’t mind adjusting or building a team around a Crosby or Crosby-lite. I do mind doing that for, well, someone like Barzal. A bunch of not so elite players have played shotgun with Crosby and HE elevated their game. Barzal, yeah, not so much.

Still waiting on 5 comparable players to Barzal making $7M with similar production.
Please enlighten us all.


He needs better players to play with. Duh…

Pettersson
Suzuki
Hischier
Dubois
Hughes
Larkin
Tkachuk
Keller

Here are 8 comparable players- some making a bit more and some a bit less- most are centres, except Tkachuk and Keller. Tkachuk’s production this year was way higher but before this year was on par. I mention him because he was an RFA the year before Barzal and that contract was the comparable bridge deal they used. Each of these players have had ups and downs similar to Barzal.

And The Crosby Lite is exactly the description of a particular player who was once Captain of this team and we all see how that went. Quite, frankly you having a hard on for former Rags coaches and now hinting to Tavares is really showing me what you are really trying to do on this board.

I love creative and dynamic players like Barzal - his speed, vision, and playmaking abilities are exactly what you build around.

I don’t understand the amount of air that has been spent on Barzal right now - it has dominated this board for too long and it is simply by 2 posters. Let’s agree for everyone’s sanity that he needs to produce more and move on. He is NOT getting traded this off-season and let’s discuss the off-season, the draft, UFAs, and ways to make this team better.

 

[CupHolders]

I'm not advocating moving on at this point. I just don't think he's played well enough to get a free pass and for everyone to just ignore that some of the problems are his own making.

I understand you are not calling for him to be traded. My point was that this board is split into camps of opinions on Barzal.

Furthermore, that in that particular sequence of conversation the answer to the post you quoted… trading Barzal is the perceived solution.

I hate the whole simplified description of “pro or anti” Barzal camps. But for lack of a better term… I feel almost all of my dealings with people who can be perceived as “pro Barzal,” have acknowledged that he bares responsibility for adjustments to his game.

I don't think he needs to be complimented directly to have a positive impact though. If another play driver is brought on the team it adds layers of threats, that would open the game up a bit for Barzal.

Agree. All cup competitors have layers of threats. Those layers of threat ordinarily offer benefit for one another by spreading the coverage they will face. Moreover, the discussion of getting such players should be about improving the team. Because again, the better teams are all built accordingly.

But that again gets diminished by some here as strictly looking to make changes to pander to Barzal’s production. Rather than what changes can be made to improve the lineup that also includes Barzal.

Because again, to some posters the only permissible solution to this current roster, is one where Barzal is removed.

 

[Lek]

Pretty much, most of everything posted on thread like this are pure speculation and really just fun off season conversation....anything goes, no? So saying trading him or him is neither good or bad or right or wrong as really most of the speculation turns out to be nothing more than conversational fun.

I do not think trading Barzal would do anything to help this team in the short term....my thoughts , in off season speculaton form, more go to what if we did trade Barzal, Nelson, Mayfield, Bailey and Beau and Varly.....what could we get in retrun and would it be enough for a quick turnaround?

 

[Mike C]

Pretty much, most of everything posted on thread like this are pure speculation and really just fun off season conversation....anything goes, no? So saying trading him or him is neither good or bad or right or wrong as really most of the speculation turns out to be nothing more than conversational fun.

I do not think trading Barzal would do anything to help this team in the short term....my thoughts , in off season speculaton form, more go to what if we did trade Barzal, Nelson, Mayfield, Bailey and Beau and Varly.....what could we get in retrun and would it be enough for a quick turnaround?

 

[CupHolders]

Pretty much, most of everything posted on thread like this are pure speculation and really just fun off season conversation....anything goes, no? So saying trading him or him is neither good or bad or right or wrong as really most of the speculation turns out to be nothing more than conversational fun.

I do not think trading Barzal would do anything to help this team in the short term....my thoughts , in off season speculaton form, more go to what if we did trade Barzal, Nelson, Mayfield, Bailey and Beau and Varly.....what could we get in retrun and would it be enough for a quick turnaround?

Based on your parameters, unfortunately I don’t think the Isles could do a quick enough turn around. They will not have the benefits that the Rangers and other pre-expansion teams have on free agency.

Only chance (albeit a small one) the Isles have to sign prominent players is if Lou can convince them he intends to compete. But clearing all those players would appear to go counter that.

So, by the time some of these younger drafted replacements can hopefully contribute you may already have lost the opportunity to extend Sorokin and possibly Dobson. You may be looking at a secondary sell off phase and possibly prolonging a re-build.

But sure if everything breaks right, you likely have a better stacked prospect system. Maybe you luck out and land again on more than one franchise level player?

 

[lafellaesobar]

Beauviller being looked at by the Kraken

 

[CupHolders]

So I don’t think the Isles want to deal Varlamov and will only do so if circumstances make it impossible not to.

With that said, I feel that Varlamov to Washington might be the best fit for all parties involved.

Caps have two similar young goalies who have not showed the consistency to be a number one. Their approaching the end of Ovechkin’s career, and likely will want to make a final push. Varlamov surely would accept a trade there.

So… Varlamov, 5th for Samsonov and 2nd.

Isles sign Samsonov for 2 years and hope he pulls a Ville Husso… great back up numbers that they flip for a pick in a year or two, to a team looking for a starter.

Helps to keep a Russian connection for Sorokin’s sake.

 

[danteipp]

Beauviller being looked at by the Kraken

Beauvillier for Eberle?

 

[SCMURRAY]

Send me Dunn. Even take Soucy with some additions

 

[PK Cronin]

Send me Dunn. Even take Soucy with some additions

Dunn is precisely the type of deal I see Beauvillier being dealt in.

 

[lafellaesobar]

Send me Dunn or Soucy

But its nichols so no deal

but if we trade away Beau it would mean we lost yet another top 6 contributor who has failed to pan out. I really don't want to lose Beau but if they can sign Mikheyev at least, i would feel a lot more confident in this team next season.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

Russian NHL stars traveled home; will they all be back? 'It's a big unknown'

Work visa complications, war in Ukraine create anxiety among some who worry high-profile stars will face obstacles when trying to return.

theathletic.com

Not sure if Sorokin went back home for the summer, but this alone may be reason enough to hold onto Varlamov (if I'm not mistaken he's settled in Texas).

 

[CupHolders]

Send me Dunn or Soucy

Dunn straight up. If Soucy, then hopefully a pick is added by SEA since he is an UFA after this year.

Pretty meh on both those players. But Beau hasn’t been more than meh himself. And he does play the less valued position.

 

[danteipp]

Beauviller being looked at by the Kraken

In all seriousness, Dunn would be very interesting given his age (25), contract (he is still a RFA after the upcoming season, so he can be extended), and two-way game. Dunn could help generate additional offense from the blueline and should mesh well with Dobson.

The current money is also essentially a wash with Dunn at $4 million and Beauvillier at $4.15 AAV.

I still have hope for Beauvillier to develop more but, if he is going to be moved, it should probably be for a player like Dunn or in a package for more.

Where did you hear about Seattle and AB?

 

[CupHolders]

Russian NHL stars traveled home; will they all be back? 'It's a big unknown'

Work visa complications, war in Ukraine create anxiety among some who worry high-profile stars will face obstacles when trying to return.

theathletic.com

Not sure if Sorokin went back home for the summer, but this alone may be reason enough to hold onto Varlamov (if I'm not mistaken he's settled in Texas).

Yeah, that definitely is cause for concern. At this point I gotta think that Russians would prefer to play in NA for financial reasons. But things can always go off the rails… and players may not even have a choice to return.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

In all seriousness, Dunn would be very interesting given his age (25), contract (he is still a RFA after the upcoming season, so he can be extended), and two-way game. Dunn could help generate additional offense from the blueline and should mesh well with Dobson.

The current money is also essentially a wash with Dunn at $4 million and Beauvillier at $4.15 AAV.

I still have hope for Beauvillier to develop more but, if he is going to be moved, it should probably be for a player like Dunn or in a package for more.

Where did you hear about Seattle and AB?

Kraken looking to add top-six forwards — The Fourth Period

Kraken GM Ron Francis is looking to add two top-six forwards this off-season.

t.co

 

[CupHolders]

Kraken looking to add top-six forwards — The Fourth Period

Kraken GM Ron Francis is looking to add two top-six forwards this off-season.

t.co

It says TWO top six forwards. Fine, enough of the arm twist! We’ll add Bailey for a second and a Francis Hartford Whalers signed jersey.

 

[PK Cronin]

Yeah, that definitely is cause for concern. At this point I gotta think that Russians would prefer to play in NA for financial reasons. But things can always go off the rails… and players may not even have a choice to return.

Barring familial reasons, no chance I'd go back during the off-season if I were a Russian player.

 

[crashthenet]

But its nichols so no deal

but if we trade away Beau it would mean we lost yet another top 6 contributor who has failed to pan out. I really don't want to lose Beau but if they can sign Mikheyev at least, i would feel a lot more confident in this team next season.

Varying degrees of no deal.

I like the idea of Dunn.

I also like the Idea of bringing back Nino if Bailey goes. Agree on Mikheyev or Lehkonen if Beau goes.

 

[MJF]

Send me Dunn. Even take Soucy with some additions

The Kraken STILL aren’t interested in Josh Bailey. That is all.

 

[blinkman360]

I think it's from both, that's why it's not a binary. His 80 point season was when he was an unknown entity around the league, was on the second line, and played in a no defense system too. People often overlook that fact.

This is a bit unfair. Unknown entities come into the league all the time and very, very few of them put up 80+ points - especially as a 20 year old. Also saying he only did it from the 2nd line is a bit unfair as well, implying it's common for 2nd liners to produce totals like that. Also not true. The only teams you'll see that have PPG 2C's are teams that have two 1st line centers.

..and if we want to point to Weight's offense-first system as a reason to downplay his great offensive year, can we also point to Trotz's defense-first system as a reason to downplay his average years? Is it safe to assume his totals will be somewhere in between in a balanced system? We probably also need to take into account that in his rookie year he had another elite offensive talent on the PP with him.

Barzal IMO is the least of our concerns, and still our biggest untouchable followed by guys like Dobson, Pelech, and Sorokin. Let's put the man in a position to succeed.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

I would do Beau for Dunn in a nanosecond.

There's UFAs who could easily replace Beau.

 

[saintunspecified]

Russian NHL stars traveled home; will they all be back? 'It's a big unknown'

Work visa complications, war in Ukraine create anxiety among some who worry high-profile stars will face obstacles when trying to return.

theathletic.com

Not sure if Sorokin went back home for the summer, but this alone may be reason enough to hold onto Varlamov (if I'm not mistaken he's settled in Texas).

I anticipated this back at the deadline, and said (for that reason) that it would be a big risk to deal Varlamov. I obviously don't know, but considering his offseason home, it seems likely that Varlamov is a US permanent resident.

 

[PK Cronin]

This is a bit unfair. Unknown entities come into the league all the time and very, very few of them put up 80+ points - especially as a 20 year old. Also saying he only did it from the 2nd line is a bit unfair as well, implying it's common for 2nd liners to produce totals like that. Also not true. The only teams you'll see that have PPG 2C's are teams that have two 1st line centers.

It's not to diminish what he did, but he has an elite skillset that players hadn't seen before and could definitely catch some by surprise during the season. Saying he did it on the second line does not imply that it's normal for second liners to produce like that, it's suggesting he was insulated from the top defensive match ups because he was a second liner. It works in tandem with the first point, which is that he was catching teams/players by surprise, and playing against inferior opponents with an elite skillset.

..and if we want to point to Weight's offense-first system as a reason to downplay his great offensive year, can we also point to Trotz's defense-first system as a reason to downplay his average years? Is it safe to assume his totals will be somewhere in between in a balanced system? We probably also need to take into account that in his rookie year he had another elite offensive talent on the PP with him.

Yes. I have no doubt that Trotz's system has impacted his offensive production. I've mentioned the need for elite talent, not necessarily a line mate, for some time now.

Barzal IMO is the least of our concerns, and still our biggest untouchable followed by guys like Dobson, Pelech, and Sorokin. Let's put the man in a position to succeed.

See, I don't think he's a problem but "put him in a position to succeed" is where there are gripes. First line minutes with every top 6 forward and getting PP isn't a position to succeed? The systems can't be changed to suit a singular player.