Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Glory Days]

Was always hoping that Leo Komarov would change how he plays to, you know, actually be good.

Seriously tho...

Bailey is never going to be a shooter. Lee is never going to be fast. Martin is never going to have hands.

Barzal is what he is - A 1st/2nd line "tweener" center who is dynamic skater/stickhandler and could be a premier set up guy....If he had a true complimentary sniper on his wing.

Instead of asking Barzal to significantly change his game (which is probably not possible), you either add pieces around him to complement his game...Or trade him. I think to do anything but one of those two things is to just bang your head against the wall.

Some here want to trade for Chychrun to help fix the left side of the defense. If we did we wouldn't expect him to score 30 goals...No more than we would expect Forsberg to play defense if we signed him.

Barzal is a far from perfect talent...But he's a serious talent. No one on this team is perfect, but we celebrate the skills that each individual brings. Personally I think we should focus on the positive Barzal does bring to the team, but if you don't like him that's totally cool. But in that case I think you should just prefer trading him then whining about him.

Well said, Lou needs to retool the roster with players that complement each other. And Lane needs to be more flexible with his line combos than Barry was.

 

[PK Cronin]

Tbf I think it's a bit from column A and column B. Sure Barzal should be trying to modify his game to better suit the style of player he's playing with, but at the same time maybe playing Barzal with dump and chase guys who like to battle in the corners isn't the best strategy? For all the talk of Barzal convos always being about "potential", the guy HAS put up 80+ points in this league, and he did it playing with speed/skill guys. It can't all be on the player to adapt - a good chunk of the responsibility has to be on the coach to put his players(especially his BEST players; the guys he is relying on to win games) in a position to succeed.

I think it's from both, that's why it's not a binary. His 80 point season was when he was an unknown entity around the league, was on the second line, and played in a no defense system too. People often overlook that fact.

 

[MJF]

I agree with your assessment but curious why you want to trade the only forward who plays that way. Shouldn’t the Isles want more players with good wheels and quick accurate passers and not less.

Because he doesn’t play that way. He has the tools to, but he doesn’t use them. He has wheels but then loves to pull up, curl, force passes that aren’t there. It’s as if he’s outthinking the game in front of him. It’s been 5 years of it and I don’t see him learning from the mistakes. In short I have questions about his hockey IQ. I also doubt that whether you could put a stud like Leon Draisaitl next to Barzal and he would get him the puck enough. More likely Barzal would put the passes where he isn’t or continue to skate himself into giveaways.

 

[PK Cronin]

To be fair, I don’t think in this case it’s about what solution/s there are for Barzal ON the Islanders. The posters who criticize Barzal at this point, primarily see the solution as moving on from Barzal.

But what is making it difficult for this board, is that this thread is by nature an exploration of roster possibilities. (Who are we kidding… rosterbaiting!)

So essentially any lineup suggestions that includes Barzal is likely to be viewed negatively by some. Because it is in their opinion either maintaining a cost-per-performance wasteful player in Barzal. Or it’s deepening an ineffectual lineup by using assets and more cap space to “pander” to Barzal.

I disagree with this view, for some very well nuanced reasons. But I’m not bothering to post them again. Sure hope some genuine hockey news comes our way! Going to be an awful summer for the Mods on this site otherwise!

I'm not advocating moving on at this point. I just don't think he's played well enough to get a free pass and for everyone to just ignore that some of the problems are his own making.

Barzal is absolutely not an easy guy to mesh with. He needs a high IQ winger, that can keep up with him, find the soft areas of the ice, and shoot.

Parise 10 years ago would have been a great winger for him. Right now there isnt a single player in the organization that checks all the boxes. Wahlstrom could, but i question his hockey IQ, and defensively he needs alot of work.

I think Nichushkin would he a great winger for him and so would Gaudreau/Forsberg. How realistic those options are is another story. .

Another option could be Boeser, but Lou needs to find someone from outside the organization that checks some of the boxes that Barzal needs to thrive.

We all know he isnt going to carry the offense by himself, he needs help. Unfortunately he will never be Mcdavid or Mackinnon, but hes still a 1st liner and our most offensively gifted player.

I don't have issue with anything you're saying here. I'd just add that if he did simplify his game some of the time it'd be for the benefit of everyone.

No, Beau hasn't been better without Barzal- not offensively. His numbers have headed in the wrong direction since his rookie campaign. In 2017-18 and 2018-19 while playing plenty with Barzal he averaged 21 goals while netting around 14:30 minutes a game and he was a +3....since almost exclusively NOT playing with Barzal, that has gone down to 19 goals a game, and a -6 even though he has averaged almost 17 minutes a game.

I don't care about his numbers, his best all around hockey was played away from Barzal.

Now I am not sure at all that is where he needs to be, because I also remember him deferring too much, but that was four years ago and we can all agree he is one of a few wings we have on the roster who can skate with Mathew. IMO that line (AB-MB-Eberle) was still the most potent one he has had to work with and you can go to Frozen Puck and see the success rate.....and oddly enough they had a +7 together.

Granted, those 3 weren't ideal (I would argue it was even worse with "man-I-was-hoping-I-would-never-have-to-utter-his-name-again" Andrew Ladd on it") defensively because of their lack of size, but it was the most potent. Barry simply didn't care about that.....not if it meant struggling to work in his system.

I don't care about potency if they can't play defense, that's a huge issue to gloss over (not saying you are).

Was always hoping that Leo Komarov would change how he plays to, you know, actually be good.

Seriously tho...

Bailey is never going to be a shooter. Lee is never going to be fast. Martin is never going to have hands.

Barzal is what he is - A 1st/2nd line "tweener" center who is dynamic skater/stickhandler and could be a premier set up guy....If he had a true complimentary sniper on his wing.

Instead of asking Barzal to significantly change his game (which is probably not possible), you either add pieces around him to complement his game...Or trade him. I think to do anything but one of those two things is to just bang your head against the wall.

Some here want to trade for Chychrun to help fix the left side of the defense. If we did we wouldn't expect him to score 30 goals...No more than we would expect Forsberg to play defense if we signed him.

Barzal is a far from perfect talent...But he's a serious talent. No one on this team is perfect, but we celebrate the skills that each individual brings. Personally I think we should focus on the positive Barzal does bring to the team, but if you don't like him that's totally cool. But in that case I think you should just prefer trading him then whining about him.

I don't think he needs to be complimented directly to have a positive impact though. If another play driver is brought on the team it adds layers of threats, that would open the game up a bit for Barzal.

 

[19 Straight]

I think it's from both, that's why it's not a binary. His 80 point season was when he was an unknown entity around the league, was on the second line, and played in a no defense system too. People often overlook that fact.

And his recent seasons were when he was in a defense first system with limited wingers playing as a first line center for a coach that did not necessarily appreciate him with defenses set up to neutralize him. So the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

 

[periferal]

I don't think he needs to be complimented directly to have a positive impact though. If another play driver is brought on the team it adds layers of threats, that would open the game up a bit for Barzal.

That's fine, but the overall point is...

Let's stop complaining about getting Barzal to change and instead either....

1) Change the talent around him to help accentuate his game.
2) Trade him.

Instead asking (or expecting) him to downshift his game to the lackluster revolving door he's had on his wing over the years is a failure of the Isles GM to land the proper talent as linemates.

In a nutshell...We haven't had a true 1st line winger on this franchise since Ziggy Palffy. That was in 1999. That is so much more a failure of every GM/scout/ownership group to not be able to draft, develop, and/or trade for legit talent.

In my opinion, Barzal is very much a "solution" on this team. If Lou goes another offseason keeping us up against the cap without adding a winger to help Barzal then Lou is part of the problem.

 

[xECK29x]

Once again, Puljujarvi wants out, and Oilers are ready to accommodate with a trade

www.sportsnet.ca

Pool party for Varlamov?

 

[WangMustGo]

Once again, Puljujarvi wants out, and Oilers are ready to accommodate with a trade

www.sportsnet.ca

Pool party for Varlamov?

Varlamov wont waive for Edmonton.

 

[PK Cronin]

Once again, Puljujarvi wants out, and Oilers are ready to accommodate with a trade

www.sportsnet.ca

Pool party for Varlamov?

Article says he struggled with McDavid and Draisaitl, why would he work here?

 

[doublechili]

Once again, Puljujarvi wants out, and Oilers are ready to accommodate with a trade

www.sportsnet.ca

Pool party for Varlamov?

Did you get to this part of the article?

"Puljujarvi is deemed “a play killer” inside the Oilers dressing room, it is believed, where two of the best centremen in the world have not been enough to turn Puljujarvi into a legitimate Top 6 winger in the NHL. The puck dies on his stick in the offensive zone too often to continue to saddle Connor McDavid or Leon Draisaitl with such a winger on a regular basis."

 

[periferal]

Once again, Puljujarvi wants out, and Oilers are ready to accommodate with a trade

www.sportsnet.ca

Pool party for Varlamov?

When trying to win a Stanley Cup the goal should be to NOT trade for inconsistent head cases who've never scored more than 15 goals in a season and is due a RAISE on his 3.4M contract this offseason.

The hardest of hard passes.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Change of scene for change of scene?

Poolparty for Bellows

 

[JKP]

Maybe we can shift to 'late bloomer?'

If we get him a better linemate, replace the coach + system and send him to the Josh Bailey hockey IQ school, I suspect he’ll be fine!

 

[lafellaesobar]

Once again, Puljujarvi wants out, and Oilers are ready to accommodate with a trade

www.sportsnet.ca

Pool party for Varlamov?

nah, his skating is atrocious

 

[seafoam]

Change of scene for change of scene?

Poolparty for Bellows

That’s what I thought. Picks to balance it out. Get a right hand shot who is better than Bellows in the DZ & NZ.

 

[Glory Days]

Because he doesn’t play that way. He has the tools to, but he doesn’t use them. He has wheels but then loves to pull up, curl, force passes that aren’t there. It’s as if he’s outthinking the game in front of him. It’s been 5 years of it and I don’t see him learning from the mistakes. In short I have questions about his hockey IQ. I also doubt that whether you could put a stud like Leon Draisaitl next to Barzal and he would get him the puck enough. More likely Barzal would put the passes where he isn’t or continue to skate himself into giveaways.

Fair enough, since he has never played with anyone close to Draisaitl’s skill level this is nothing more than message board banter

 

[Lights911]

Once again, Puljujarvi wants out, and Oilers are ready to accommodate with a trade

www.sportsnet.ca

Pool party for Varlamov?

If a competent organization gets their hands on him, he’ll be viewed in the same light as Nichushkin this time next year.

 

[LeapOnOver]

That's fine, but the overall point is...

Let's stop complaining about getting Barzal to change and instead either....

1) Change the talent around him to help accentuate his game.
2) Trade him.

Instead asking (or expecting) him to downshift his game to the lackluster revolving door he's had on his wing over the years is a failure of the Isles GM to land the proper talent as linemates.

In a nutshell...We haven't had a true 1st line winger on this franchise since Ziggy Palffy. That was in 1999. That is so much more a failure of every GM/scout/ownership group to not be able to draft, develop, and/or trade for legit talent.

In my opinion, Barzal is very much a "solution" on this team. If Lou goes another offseason keeping us up against the cap without adding a winger to help Barzal then Lou is part of the problem.

Where is 3) give the young guy with elite hands and skating more time to dominate the league?

 

[SI]

Because he doesn’t play that way. He has the tools to, but he doesn’t use them. He has wheels but then loves to pull up, curl, force passes that aren’t there. It’s as if he’s outthinking the game in front of him. It’s been 5 years of it and I don’t see him learning from the mistakes. In short I have questions about his hockey IQ. I also doubt that whether you could put a stud like Leon Draisaitl next to Barzal and he would get him the puck enough. More likely Barzal would put the passes where he isn’t or continue to skate himself into giveaways.

Not every zone entry is about driving to the net - these are NHL D men - it is actually very selfish to drive to the net and force a play or shot - he gains the zone and pulls up and curls to delay and wait for help - where the team can craft a goal - he is talented enough to hold onto it, so he can make a play happen and make things happen.

He is a creative and dynamic player but he doesn’t turn over the puck as much as you think he does.
He just turned 25 and has absolutely another gear to his game hasn’t even hit his prime years.

Barzal is the solution to this team not the problem.

The questioning his hockey IQ is absolutely absurd.

Would love to hear the trade you’d make for Barzal? Better be a very good LHD with high, high IQ.

 

[SI]

McDonagh-Dobson would be insane. No shot NYI lands him though.

Just for fun, something around Mayfield for McDonagh?

McDonagh - Dobson would be an awesome pairing.

Not frightened of the 4 years (even at 33) - he’ll be logging 20 mins a game at 37 just like Suter-

the cap hit is a bit too rich, but if the price to acquire were picks - 2 seconds. I think I’d do that deal.

Bailey for sure would also have to be moved to make room for that cap hit

 

[LeapOnOver]

Judging by this thread, it's officially okay for me to not feel guilty wanting to trade Barzal for Duchene back in the day?

 

[beach]

Article says he struggled with McDavid and Draisaitl, why would he work here?

Because we don't have superhuman players?

 

[BelovedIsles]

Brown is a nice player. Definite upgrade over Bailey as well. However, he would be best on a 3rd line in Bailey's stead. A line of Parise/JGP/Brown would be excellent I think. As far as Barzy winger goes, the Isles really need someone with elite shooting ability. Somebody who can bury Barzy passes with ease and consistency. A Pasternak type would be ideal, even though a pipe dream. Wahlstrom is the best bet to develop into such player on the team, but with the window getting more narrow each year, I'm not sure you can bet on that.

IMO, Lou has been far too loyal with the players on the roster. He has been far too loyal to the 4th line, Bailey, and Chara/Greene. This has cost us dearly. It's imperative he deals Bailey, Varlamov to create the cap space and improve the team's ability to create easy goals. It's been really hard for me to understand what the plan is based on the moves that have been made during his tenure. Most personnel decisions have been lazy without an eye to compete with the speed of the true elite teams in the NHL.

Forsberg would be the quintessential linemate for Barzal. He goes to the soft spots; is quick, smart, and creative enough to keep up with Barzal. Put the puck on his stick, he'll either dangle through defenders or pick corners.

 

[Mike C]

Article says he struggled with McDavid and Draisaitl, why would he work here?

He wouldn't

 

[Throttle]

Not every zone entry is about driving to the net - these are NHL D men - it is actually very selfish to drive to the net and force a play or shot - he gains the zone and pulls up and curls to delay and wait for help - where the team can craft a goal - he is talented enough to hold onto it, so he can make a play happen and make things happen.

He is a creative and dynamic player but he doesn’t turn over the puck as much as you think he does.
He just turned 25 and has absolutely another gear to his game hasn’t even hit his prime years.

Barzal is the solution to this team not the problem.

The questioning his hockey IQ is absolutely absurd.

Would love to hear the trade you’d make for Barzal? Better be a very good LHD with high, high IQ.

Barzal the Solution. That’s a new one. I don’t mind adjusting or building a team around a Crosby or Crosby-lite. I do mind doing that for, well, someone like Barzal. A bunch of not so elite players have played shotgun with Crosby and HE elevated their game. Barzal, yeah, not so much.

Still waiting on 5 comparable players to Barzal making $7M with similar production.
Please enlighten us all.

He wouldn't

He needs better players to play with. Duh…