Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Lame Lambert]

I have very little confidence in Lou navigating this offseason correctly. I’d love to be proven wrong, but I’m not getting my hopes up.

 

[lafellaesobar]

Isn't this considered one of the strongest UFA classes ever? Don't we also have one of the weakest prospect pools in the league? Am I missing something here? Why exactly shouldn't Lou be looking to improve the team via UFA while attempting to restock the cupboard? Oh that's right - we've always sucked with UFAs so why even try, I guess. Sound strategy.

I'll gladly take my chances on Forsberg or Gaudreau. If it doesn't work out, there will still be trade candidates out there. Kane/DeBrincat; Boeser; Ehlers/Connor; etc.

Forsberg needs to be the top target though. Perfect fit for what this team needs and won't cost an asset. Gotta at least try before moving on to the plan B trade options and further crippling the long-term future of this team.

Its an abysmal LHD market: the one we need if the isles want to even be considered a playoff contender.

 

[YearlyLottery]

The Kings were actually one of 3 other teams accounting for 4 championships in that 7 year span that won playing a "heavy game". The Bruins and the Capitals being the other 2 teams. We were always patterning ourselves to be able to beat the Caps and the Bruins.

You don't have to copy cat the rest of the league but you do have to be aware of how you are losing games. The Isles throughout Trotz's time here had trouble defending against the Penguins, Canadiens, Lightning...teams that were considered to have good wheels and quick, accurate passers. More teams are going that route now. We do have to adjust to that.

I agree that adjustments are needed. That is why I believe that they should going after a true first liner if they really want to compete. I do think there are positives to having a more heavy team when they do match up against teams like Pittsburgh and Tampa. Pittsburgh we defeated twice in the playoffs during the Trotz era. Tampa is a bit heavier compared to some of the more skilled teams.

I trust that Lou will not allow this to totally curb his thought process. Whatever we think about the guy he sticks to his plan.

 

[YearlyLottery]

i know you bleed sarcasm but the isles were so slow and geriatric against any playoff team that we badly need to add some young legs and skill. you cannot gaslight yourself into thinking trap hockey with Zdeno Chara and Andy Greene will make us stay good, and giving Barzal another revolving door of wingers. We need to get younger, period. Being the oldest team is not a good sign at all.


so you believe that slower teams will come back now? colorado proved to me that depth is important, and more teams will now pursue guys who can be reliable 2nd-3rd liners.

Quite the opposite. Teams are going to go wild after these quicker forwards who are offense first. That is what Colorado is. But in a change in thought process comes opportunity.

 

[lafellaesobar]

Quite the opposite. Teams are going to go wild after these quicker forwards who are offense first. That is what Colorado is. But in a change in thought process comes opportunity.

so you want us to stay slow?

 

[PK Cronin]

Exactly. Some posters bitch and cry about Barzal over and over, yet offer no solution.

The solution is that Barzal needs to change how he plays to compliment the players around him. Another solution is to bring in someone else that might make that easier. It doesn't have to be a binary.

Fans love to oversimplify things and say things like, a shooter + a passer = success. It rarely goes that way. Plenty of trades end with players not being slotted where fans originally thought. It's also about more than just getting one good player going, which explains why certain combinations weren't tried.

There's a new guy behind the bench so we'll see what he does, but I'm not sold on Wahlstrom being a top line winger at this point, and Beauvillier hadn't played as well with Barzal as he has away from him. He turns into a tentative player who defers to Barzal too much. Maybe he's matured a little bit, but it's not like we haven't seen that version of Beauvillier before.

I've spent a lot of time posting how the way Barzal plays is incredibly difficult to play with, that's proving to be true as the years go by. I'm not sure why that's hard for people to accept and realize it's not as easy as just plugging in a shooter.

 

[lafellaesobar]

The solution is that Barzal needs to change how he plays to compliment the players around him. Another solution is to bring in someone else that might make that easier. It doesn't have to be a binary.

Fans love to oversimplify things and say things like, a shooter + a passer = success. It rarely goes that way. Plenty of trades end with players not being slotted where fans originally thought. It's also about more than just getting one good player going, which explains why certain combinations weren't tried.

There's a new guy behind the bench so we'll see what he does, but I'm not sold on Wahlstrom being a top line winger at this point, and Beauvillier hadn't played as well with Barzal as he has away from him. He turns into a tentative player who defers to Barzal too much. Maybe he's matured a little bit, but it's not like we haven't seen that version of Beauvillier before.

I've spent a lot of time posting how the way Barzal plays is incredibly difficult to play with, that's proving to be true as the years go by. I'm not sure why that's hard for people to accept and realize it's not as easy as just plugging in a shooter.

or we could just avoid seeing barzal play with guys like Czarnik for stretches, because a good winger like a lehkonen or mikeyev can fix that imo, and in theory speed should compliment speed, hence why everyone loves spitballing Beau with Barzal

Barzal needs to get more, but he needs more from himself and more from his wingers.

 

[blinkman360]

Its an abysmal LHD market: the one we need if the isles want to even be considered a playoff contender.

Maybe, if what you're looking for is a #1 or 2. I see a couple of solid options though, mainly CdH and Ryan Murray who I think would both compliment Dobson pretty well on the 2nd pairing. CdH in particular, who I've always been a big fan of and should come relatively cheap and on the short term.

 

[blinkman360]

The solution is that Barzal needs to change how he plays to compliment the players around him. Another solution is to bring in someone else that might make that easier. It doesn't have to be a binary.

Fans love to oversimplify things and say things like, a shooter + a passer = success. It rarely goes that way. Plenty of trades end with players not being slotted where fans originally thought. It's also about more than just getting one good player going, which explains why certain combinations weren't tried.

There's a new guy behind the bench so we'll see what he does, but I'm not sold on Wahlstrom being a top line winger at this point, and Beauvillier hadn't played as well with Barzal as he has away from him. He turns into a tentative player who defers to Barzal too much. Maybe he's matured a little bit, but it's not like we haven't seen that version of Beauvillier before.

I've spent a lot of time posting how the way Barzal plays is incredibly difficult to play with, that's proving to be true as the years go by. I'm not sure why that's hard for people to accept and realize it's not as easy as just plugging in a shooter.

Tbf I think it's a bit from column A and column B. Sure Barzal should be trying to modify his game to better suit the style of player he's playing with, but at the same time maybe playing Barzal with dump and chase guys who like to battle in the corners isn't the best strategy? For all the talk of Barzal convos always being about "potential", the guy HAS put up 80+ points in this league, and he did it playing with speed/skill guys. It can't all be on the player to adapt - a good chunk of the responsibility has to be on the coach to put his players(especially his BEST players; the guys he is relying on to win games) in a position to succeed.

 

[CupHolders]

Exactly. Some posters bitch and cry about Barzal over and over, yet offer no solution.

The solution is that Barzal needs to change how he plays to compliment the players around him. Another solution is to bring in someone else that might make that easier. It doesn't have to be a binary.

Fans love to oversimplify things and say things like, a shooter + a passer = success. It rarely goes that way. Plenty of trades end with players not being slotted where fans originally thought. It's also about more than just getting one good player going, which explains why certain combinations weren't tried.

There's a new guy behind the bench so we'll see what he does, but I'm not sold on Wahlstrom being a top line winger at this point, and Beauvillier hadn't played as well with Barzal as he has away from him. He turns into a tentative player who defers to Barzal too much. Maybe he's matured a little bit, but it's not like we haven't seen that version of Beauvillier before.

I've spent a lot of time posting how the way Barzal plays is incredibly difficult to play with, that's proving to be true as the years go by. I'm not sure why that's hard for people to accept and realize it's not as easy as just plugging in a shooter.

To be fair, I don’t think in this case it’s about what solution/s there are for Barzal ON the Islanders. The posters who criticize Barzal at this point, primarily see the solution as moving on from Barzal.

But what is making it difficult for this board, is that this thread is by nature an exploration of roster possibilities. (Who are we kidding… rosterbaiting!)

So essentially any lineup suggestions that includes Barzal is likely to be viewed negatively by some. Because it is in their opinion either maintaining a cost-per-performance wasteful player in Barzal. Or it’s deepening an ineffectual lineup by using assets and more cap space to “pander” to Barzal.

I disagree with this view, for some very well nuanced reasons. But I’m not bothering to post them again. Sure hope some genuine hockey news comes our way! Going to be an awful summer for the Mods on this site otherwise!

 

[19 Straight]

Exactly. Some posters bitch and cry about Barzal over and over, yet offer no solution.

The solution appears to be to trade him because they claim he's not worth the money he is being paid now on his bridge contract, let alone what he will command when this contract expires. I greatly appreciate what Trotz and Lou did to provide great playoff runs in 20 and 21. But you also have to realize that the Islanders owners just spent hundreds of millions on a brand new arena and now that arena needs to be filled with fans. The product the Islanders put on the ice last season was subpar.... and boring. It was somewhat understandable because the Islanders appeared to be a win now team. But it failed, and I don't think anybody thinks they can run with the same roster and style next year and win and fill the arena. Nobody wants to go back to fire wagon pond hockey like we saw with Weight, but this team needs to get better, younger and faster to compete on the ice and financially.

The style of play can be excused if the team wins. But if the team doesn't win, the combination is bad on all fronts. Something has to change and it has started with the coaching change. Now the Islanders need "some" young skilled players and need to play at a more uptempo pace. It is not 1995. Moving Barzal only moves this team backwards.

 

[WangMustGo]

The solution is that Barzal needs to change how he plays to compliment the players around him. Another solution is to bring in someone else that might make that easier. It doesn't have to be a binary.

Fans love to oversimplify things and say things like, a shooter + a passer = success. It rarely goes that way. Plenty of trades end with players not being slotted where fans originally thought. It's also about more than just getting one good player going, which explains why certain combinations weren't tried.

There's a new guy behind the bench so we'll see what he does, but I'm not sold on Wahlstrom being a top line winger at this point, and Beauvillier hadn't played as well with Barzal as he has away from him. He turns into a tentative player who defers to Barzal too much. Maybe he's matured a little bit, but it's not like we haven't seen that version of Beauvillier before.

I've spent a lot of time posting how the way Barzal plays is incredibly difficult to play with, that's proving to be true as the years go by. I'm not sure why that's hard for people to accept and realize it's not as easy as just plugging in a shooter.

Barzal is absolutely not an easy guy to mesh with. He needs a high IQ winger, that can keep up with him, find the soft areas of the ice, and shoot.

Parise 10 years ago would have been a great winger for him. Right now there isnt a single player in the organization that checks all the boxes. Wahlstrom could, but i question his hockey IQ, and defensively he needs alot of work.

I think Nichushkin would he a great winger for him and so would Gaudreau/Forsberg. How realistic those options are is another story. .

Another option could be Boeser, but Lou needs to find someone from outside the organization that checks some of the boxes that Barzal needs to thrive.

We all know he isnt going to carry the offense by himself, he needs help. Unfortunately he will never be Mcdavid or Mackinnon, but hes still a 1st liner and our most offensively gifted player.

 

[JKP]

Won’t it be nice when Lou does something so we can bitch about that instead bitching about all this speculative stuff!!

 

[lafellaesobar]

Maybe, if what you're looking for is a #1 or 2. I see a couple of solid options though, mainly CdH and Ryan Murray who I think would both compliment Dobson pretty well on the 2nd pairing. CdH in particular, who I've always been a big fan of and should come relatively cheap and on the short term.

Murray is okay if you're gonna make him play third pair, but we need better. I already believe in Salo getting a shot to play on the roster next season, but that 2nd LHD spot is up for grabs. CdH should be left out since he probably hates our guts.

Barzal is absolutely not an easy guy to mesh with. He needs a high IQ winger, that can keep up with him, find the soft areas of the ice, and shoot.

Parise 10 years ago would have been a great winger for him. Right now there isnt a single player in the organization that checks all the boxes. Wahlstrom could, but i question his hockey IQ, and defensively he needs alot of work.

I think Nichushkin would he a great winger for him and so would Gaudreau/Forsberg. How realistic those options are is another story. .

Another option could be Boeser, but Lou needs to find someone from outside the organization that checks some of the boxes that Barzal needs to thrive.

We all know he isnt going to carry the offense by himself, he needs help. Unfortunately he will never be Mcdavid or Mackinnon, but hes still a 1st liner and our most offensively gifted player.

Nichushkin would be awesome on the isles and actually make sense! too bad he'll probably sign for someone like NJ and rot away

 

[CupHolders]

Won’t it be nice when Lou does something so we can bitch about that instead bitching about all this speculative stuff!!

No. Because you won’t hear about what he did until some September afternoon after Islanders start showing up for informal skating.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

Quite the opposite. Teams are going to go wild after these quicker forwards who are offense first. That is what Colorado is. But in a change in thought process comes opportunity.

St. Louis is the only team that seemed to give Colorado a challenge until Binnington went down. We may be closer to emulate their structure of size/grit mixed with speed than Colorado with how we're currently built.

 

[lafellaesobar]

Mikheyev is a free agent essentially: isles should be all in on him for winger help

EDIT: they're gonna do the same thing as Goodrow it appears. isles probably need to part with a pick for it to happen.

 

[19 Straight]

St. Louis is the only team that seemed to give Colorado a challenge until Binnington went down. We may be closer to emulate their structure of size/grit mixed with speed than Colorado with how we're currently built.

You don't structure your roster to beat one team. The Islanders could not beat any playoff bound teams last season. It was telling that the team played poorly both early in the season when they had too much to overcome with the schedule and Covid and late when the team either ran out of gas or tuned out Trotz. This is not a roster built for an 82 game season and now it is a year older.

And everyone is making it sound extremely complicated to find someone on the wing to pair with Barzal. But who exactly has been put on Barzal's line in the past 3 seasons besides a bunch of old and slow stone hands/defensive 3rd and 4th line players? One of the posters went down a list of wingers he has played with and its embarrassing. And the players that could possibly play with him and elevate the 1st line - Beau, Palmieri, Wahlstrom - never really got the chance. It's not that difficult to understand that Barzal should be provided the opportunity to play with somebody or anybody who can skate and shoot and score.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

You don't structure your roster to beat one team. The Islanders could not beat any playoff bound teams last season. It was telling that the team played poorly both early in the season when they had too much to overcome with the schedule and Covid and late when the team either ran out of gas or tuned out Trotz. This is not a roster built for an 82 game season and now it is a year older.

And everyone is making it sound extremely complicated to find someone on the wing to pair with Brazil. But who exactly has been put on Barzal's line in the past 3 seasons besides a bunch of old and slow stone/defensive 3rd and 4th line players? One of the posters went down a list of wingers he has played with and its embarrassing. And the players that could possibly play with him and elevate the 1st line - Beau, Palmieri, Wahlstrom - never really got the chance. It's not that difficult to understand that Barzal should be provided the opportunity to play with somebody or anybody who can skate and shoot and score.

I wasn't suggesting to structure the team to just beat Colorado.
The conversation was building around the notion that teams will likely follow their model of speedy forwards and suggesting that the St. Louis approach may be a viable alternative against that type of team.

 

[CupHolders]

I wasn't suggesting to structure the team to just beat Colorado.
The conversation was building around the notion that teams will likely follow their model of speedy forwards and suggesting that the St. Louis approach may be a viable alternative against that type of team.

I was picking up what you were putting down. I’m also a big fan of St. Louis stylistically and see them as the most viable approach for the Isles.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Won’t it be nice when Lou does something so we can bitch about that instead bitching about all this speculative stuff!!

He just has to wake up from his nap first!

 

[doublechili]

I have very little confidence in Lou navigating this offseason correctly. I’d love to be proven wrong, but I’m not getting my hopes up.

I think you need to change your user name to "Lou Lame-oriello".

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

The solution is that Barzal needs to change how he plays to compliment the players around him. Another solution is to bring in someone else that might make that easier. It doesn't have to be a binary.

Fans love to oversimplify things and say things like, a shooter + a passer = success. It rarely goes that way. Plenty of trades end with players not being slotted where fans originally thought. It's also about more than just getting one good player going, which explains why certain combinations weren't tried.

There's a new guy behind the bench so we'll see what he does, but I'm not sold on Wahlstrom being a top line winger at this point, and Beauvillier hadn't played as well with Barzal as he has away from him. He turns into a tentative player who defers to Barzal too much. Maybe he's matured a little bit, but it's not like we haven't seen that version of Beauvillier before.

I've spent a lot of time posting how the way Barzal plays is incredibly difficult to play with, that's proving to be true as the years go by. I'm not sure why that's hard for people to accept and realize it's not as easy as just plugging in a shooter.

Ya, I dont understand this logic either.

No one is saying it "automatically" equals success, but if you want success it need to be tried at least. Barzal could do more North/South and isn't changing Bailey into a scorer or somehow making Uncle Leo a top line option. It isn't giving Parise a new set of legs or shaving 5 years off his age either.

No, Beau hasn't been better without Barzal- not offensively. His numbers have headed in the wrong direction since his rookie campaign. In 2017-18 and 2018-19 while playing plenty with Barzal he averaged 21 goals while netting around 14:30 minutes a game and he was a +3....since almost exclusively NOT playing with Barzal, that has gone down to 19 goals a game, and a -6 even though he has averaged almost 17 minutes a game.

Now I am not sure at all that is where he needs to be, because I also remember him deferring too much, but that was four years ago and we can all agree he is one of a few wings we have on the roster who can skate with Mathew. IMO that line (AB-MB-Eberle) was still the most potent one he has had to work with and you can go to Frozen Puck and see the success rate.....and oddly enough they had a +7 together.

Granted, those 3 weren't ideal (I would argue it was even worse with "man-I-was-hoping-I-would-never-have-to-utter-his-name-again" Andrew Ladd on it") defensively because of their lack of size, but it was the most potent. Barry simply didn't care about that.....not if it meant struggling to work in his system.

 

[MJF]

I agree that adjustments are needed. That is why I believe that they should going after a true first liner if they really want to compete. I do think there are positives to having a more heavy team when they do match up against teams like Pittsburgh and Tampa. Pittsburgh we defeated twice in the playoffs during the Trotz era. Tampa is a bit heavier compared to some of the more skilled teams.

I trust that Lou will not allow this to totally curb his thought process. Whatever we think about the guy he sticks to his plan.

I think we beat Pittsburgh both times in the playoffs because of their goaltending, especially the year we beat Jarry. That series in particular they were outskating us most of the way. It was way too close for comfort for my liking.

 

[MJF]

To be fair, I don’t think in this case it’s about what solution/s there are for Barzal ON the Islanders. The posters who criticize Barzal at this point, primarily see the solution as moving on from Barzal.

Because what Barzal could fetch in return might solve a bunch of our other problems. The same thing with when I float Brock Nelson as a tradable piece. The return should be huge. And I suggest those moves because I have my doubts that this roster, even with off season tweaks and a plan to change out players on the fly over the next 2 years won’t improve us enough to be anything more than a team that’s a 2nd round exit in the playoffs. In other words a good team but not good enough.