Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[YearlyLottery]

I'm fine if LL hunts and prioritizes a D over O, just not sure there's as many that will make a significant impact as there are on the forward side.

I think it can be done... As much as I want him to go grab a top tier forward I would not be upset if he were to feel grabbing a guy like Klingberg would help more and then we grab a forward at the deadline.

 

[CupHolders]

I want to touch base on this thought process. Simply because you are being sarcastic about an important point.

You do NOT need to build the Colorado Avalanche to win the Cup. The NHL is a copycat league. When they zig you zag. That is why Dobson fell to be honest. Remember when there was a push for all of these Smurfs on defense? What about when players like Nylander and Ehlers fell because they were "too small?"

Ironically this is around the time when the Kings were winning the Cup with their big, heavy teams.

The Islanders were one game away last season from the NHL deciding to go in the course of "playoff proven performers who are team first with a heavy defensive system" rather than the way the Avs built their team.

Once you start trying to copy what other teams built you end up with drafting Reinhart with the fourth pick.

Agree 100%

Also, as someone with an interest in military history, I often see it analogous to the “failures of preparing for the wars of yesterday.”

The French designed the Maginot Line in response to World War I. German technology and subsequent change in tactics lead to “Blitzkrieg-ing” right through and around it in World War II.

Pearl Harbor (aircraft launched from carriers) essentially eliminated the battleship as the supreme naval platform.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I think it can be done... As much as I want him to go grab a top tier forward I would not be upset if he were to feel grabbing a guy like Klingberg would help more and then we grab a forward at the deadline.

Yeah, guess I'm just jaded. Feel like every year we see big names up for grabs and 50% end up signing a new contract with their current team, and it's usually the best 50%. Would be thrilled with a guy like Klingberg, just felt like these guys we know are available, like Fiala end up in a different jersey and it's gonna sting come October.

 

[TheWhiteWhale30]

Bailey and Beau are gone. I think if Lou can get chychrun and Forsberg then he will move Varlamov to make room to fill out the team. I think Varly is dependent on what lou can do. Plenty of goalies out there at 1-2M who can put up a .910. You worry about next year next year. For all we know Räty takes JGPs spot after this season and Holmstrom takes Palms spot both at league minimum. That is 8M saved right there.


At some point prospects will need to develop and push out salary. Can’t keep worrying about where we will get the money In 2-3 years or we will never win now. Most teams can navigate moves to keep the core. You do it when the time comes. You build a half ass team and you are still up against the cap and not winning anything. Have to Atleast try and worry about the rest later.

 

[beach]

I think we should go after Trocheck. Still in his prime. A bit cheaper than other FA options.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

Fake twitter account season has started. I saw PLD + 6th for Kakko + 2nd and I almost had a stroke.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

I think we should go after Trocheck. Still in his prime. A bit cheaper than other FA options.

Trocheck as the 2C and Nelson on Barzal's wing?

 

[saintunspecified]

Trocheck as the 2C and Nelson on Barzal's wing?

I think Trocheck would be a great fit with Barzal. They could freeform center/wing responsibilities.

I'm about 80% that Trocheck either goes back to Carolina, or ends up in Pittsburgh if they don't resign Malkin. Gotta imagine he's high up on the Rangers wishlist, too. I feel pretty pessimistic about the chances of signing him.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

Trocheck as the 2C and Nelson on Barzal's wing?

Will be curious if Lambert is willing to put Nelson on the wing. Trotz wanted him at center and nowhere else.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Will be curious if Lambert is willing to put Nelson on the wing. Trotz wanted him at center and nowhere else.

Nelson has played so well as a center though, our best all around center really. I would leave that as is for now.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

I think Trocheck would be a great fit with Barzal. They could freeform center/wing responsibilities.

I'm about 80% that Trocheck either goes back to Carolina, or ends up in Pittsburgh if they don't resign Malkin. Gotta imagine he's high up on the Rangers wishlist, too. I feel pretty pessimistic about the chances of signing him.

Will be curious if Lambert is willing to put Nelson on the wing. Trotz wanted him at center and nowhere else.

I guess that's the question, if you acquire another Center in Trocheck - which is probably one of the stronger positions on the current team - you start displacing things.

Does that open up trading Nelson, Pageau or Cizikas for a D or W? Perhaps that's how Lou would achieve his "hockey trade"

 

[saintunspecified]

I guess that's the question, if you acquire another Center in Trocheck - which is probably one of the stronger positions on the current team - you start displacing things.

I think we need to get over this center/wing thing. Trotz used to play Pageau with Barzal in tight-game situations. Trocheck is a good fit for doing that full time, because he is a much better scorer than Pageau.

Let's say we're optimistic about how Raty is coming along. Given his skillset, would it be a problem to have a Raty-Trouchek-Barzal line because they're 3 centers? Does it mean that one or two are transitioning to the wing full time? No I don't. The downside of not having set responsibilities is that more communication is required. From my viewings, I don't think Trouchek ever stops talking.

 

[IslesNorway]

How about Andrew Copp? May he will get a monster deal after doing so well with the Rangers, but could he play with Barzal?

 

[MJF]

Cool, more elaborate writings on $7M ‘potential’ #1 center. Please enlighten what other 5 players have a $7M cap hit with similar production?


I mean the Isles pay Barzal $7M…

But Barzal averages a .78129135802 PPG pace per 82.

I think people watch Barzal during games, see him make passes to a linemate who couldn't get to the spot or got to the spot and couldn't convert and say "well there's another assist Barzy didn't get".

I guess it's really Lou's obligation to change out the other 11 forwards to get Barzal linemates that better suit his unique skills.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

I guess that's the question, if you acquire another Center in Trocheck - which is probably one of the stronger positions on the current team - you start displacing things.

Does that open up trading Nelson, Pageau or Cizikas for a D or W? Perhaps that's how Lou would achieve his "hockey trade"

Deepening center depth could extend the usefulness of Cizikas and give Pageau a break at times. The position has a lot of responsibility beyond faceoffs.

 

[CupHolders]

How about Andrew Copp? May he will get a monster deal after doing so well with the Rangers, but could he play with Barzal?

I brought him up the other day, after it was reported the Rangers were looking into PLD.

I figured he was a foregone conclusion to sign with the Rangers… But, looking at their cap situation. Even if they don’t acquire PLD, they may have a hard time signing him.

With that said, the benefit of Copp, is his two way game and versatility (plays all three forward positions).

He does not have a strong history of production. But, his last two years have been trending upward. So it’s conceivable that he can put up 20G-50P over the next five years of his prime.

Would especially fit the lineup well if the Isles can move Bailey. Both Pageau and Copp can move up and down the lineup as needed.

 

[MJF]

Ironically this is around the time when the Kings were winning the Cup with their big, heavy teams.

The Kings were actually one of 3 other teams accounting for 4 championships in that 7 year span that won playing a "heavy game". The Bruins and the Capitals being the other 2 teams. We were always patterning ourselves to be able to beat the Caps and the Bruins.

Once you start trying to copy what other teams built you end up with drafting Reinhart with the fourth pick.

You don't have to copy cat the rest of the league but you do have to be aware of how you are losing games. The Isles throughout Trotz's time here had trouble defending against the Penguins, Canadiens, Lightning...teams that were considered to have good wheels and quick, accurate passers. More teams are going that route now. We do have to adjust to that.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

But Barzal averages a .78129135802 PPG pace per 82.

I think people watch Barzal during games, see him make passes to a linemate who couldn't get to the spot or got to the spot and couldn't convert and say "well there's another assist Barzy didn't get".

I guess it's really Lou's obligation to change out the other 11 forwards to get Barzal linemates that better suit his unique skills.

Well, I watch that and think that's another goal the Islanders didn't get.

I think it is fair to criticize the other forwards for not being offensive enough to read the play the way Barzal does and for not converting the chances he gives them....

While also criticizing Barzal for attempting those plays too often knowing the other forwards are going to do nothing with them. He should be changing his approach to put those other forwards in the best position to score. That's the hallmark of an elite player who makes everyone else better.

 

[19 Straight]

Agree 100%

Also, as someone with an interest in military history, I often see it analogous to the “failures of preparing for the wars of yesterday.”

The French designed the Maginot Line in response to World War I. German technology and subsequent change in tactics lead to “Blitzkrieg-ing” right through and around it in World War II.

Pearl Harbor (aircraft launched from carriers) essentially eliminated the battleship as the supreme naval platform.

I understand the concept of zagging when everyone else is zigging, but building- or keeping - an old and slow roster is not a legitimate winning zag. Quite a bit went wrong last year - the ridiculous early season schedule, Covid depleted roster, etc. But one thing that was painfully obvious in the first full season in 3 years was that the Islanders were just too old and slow to win consistently. Defense and goaltending are still incredibly important, but a team can't win if it is outskated, outshot, and outskilled in almost every game.

 

[beach]

Trocheck as the 2C and Nelson on Barzal's wing?

Yes, I think this would work well. It would clear some traffic around Barzy as you'd have to fear Brock.

 

[CupHolders]

I understand the concept of zagging when everyone else is zigging, but building- or keeping - an old and slow roster is not a legitimate winning zag. Quite a bit went wrong last year - the ridiculous early season schedule, Covid depleted roster, etc. But one thing that was painfully obvious in the first full season in 3 years was that the Islanders were just too old and slow to win consistently. Defense and goaltending are still incredibly important, but a team can't win if it is outskated, outshot, and outskilled in almost every game.

My post wasn’t specific to the Islanders of any season, and certainly not last year. It was in response to another post. I was ultimately addressing the cyclical nature the NHL.

I’m going to ask that the historians on this board allow me some license with the simplified analogy of war tactics to hockey.

While many factors led to Germany’s defeat in World War II. If Germany’s Blitzkrieg is viewed as an NHL team relying on an offensive speed attack. It was the Allies access to greater troops and cheaper produced mass weaponry and established supply structure that ultimately lead to their victory. For an NHL team that would be structure and depth.

Lol… just thought of the Russian Winter as equivalent to the Neutral Zone Trap.

But to get back on point, I’m not at all suggesting to zag just for the sake of someone zigging. Rather there are some fundamentals that carry over during every era of hockey. Additionally, copying a team is not necessarily a means to defeat them.

As for the Isles last year, I think it’s already pretty universally accepted here that they need to play at a higher pace. I’m also all for bringing in more skill upfront. But again my post should not be taken in context of defending last years roster.

I just caution poster here to interpret that playing with speed means we need to expunge anyone perceived as slow for anyone else faster.

Playing fast doesn’t always require the fastest players. Some of it is systematic (better puck decisions with breakouts) Allowing players to play at their top speed.

Anyway, I’m rambling.

 

[blinkman360]

Isn't this considered one of the strongest UFA classes ever? Don't we also have one of the weakest prospect pools in the league? Am I missing something here? Why exactly shouldn't Lou be looking to improve the team via UFA while attempting to restock the cupboard? Oh that's right - we've always sucked with UFAs so why even try, I guess. Sound strategy.

I'll gladly take my chances on Forsberg or Gaudreau. If it doesn't work out, there will still be trade candidates out there. Kane/DeBrincat; Boeser; Ehlers/Connor; etc.

Forsberg needs to be the top target though. Perfect fit for what this team needs and won't cost an asset. Gotta at least try before moving on to the plan B trade options and further crippling the long-term future of this team.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

But Barzal averages a .78129135802 PPG pace per 82.

I think people watch Barzal during games, see him make passes to a linemate who couldn't get to the spot or got to the spot and couldn't convert and say "well there's another assist Barzy didn't get".

I guess it's really Lou's obligation to change out the other 11 forwards to get Barzal linemates that better suit his unique skills.

Ugh. No. You don't have to change out the other 11 forwards, yadda, yadda, yadda.

My god this has become utterly insane talk.

All of us have seen enough of Mathew Barzal, much like the other long term players to know what best suits him on that line....a sniper and/or someone who can keep up with his speed. Hell, all 31 other teams are salivating at the prospect of his upcoming UFA and hoping above hope that we fail to recognize it (again) another year...

There are ONLY three wings who remotely have these qualities in their arsenal....period.

No, it isn't Anders Lee, who labors up the ice and hangs out in front of the net. He excels at this, but that is all he is.

No, it isn't Josh Bailey- who like Barzal is more of a facilitator, proven repeatedly by his 40+ average in assists in his career and never reaching 20 goals in the process.....or the latest "pass" highlight where he ignored the empty net in front of him

No, it isn't Zach Parise, who at 37 years old is a fragment of his old self; where he never was much of a sniper anyway. The last time he scored 30 goals in a season was 2014-15

No, it wasn't Leo Komarov, who has no business being in a top 6 role EVER in his career

No, it wasn't washed up Travis Zajac either, who to the surprise of absolutely no one; retired the following season and never played again

The only three wings on our roster that would help Mathew Barzal reach his potential as a 1C are Anthony Beauvillier, Kyle Palmieri and Oliver Wahlstrom......period.

Beauvillier has the speed to keep up with Barzal, but after being on that line with him quite frequently in 2017-18 (you know when both players had their best offensive years, resulting in a Cadler for Mathew and the lone 20-goal season for AB), Barry went away from it more and more to where the two have hardly played on the same line at all the last 3 seasons (about 150 min TOTAL)

Palmieri, most thought was a shoo-in to play on the top line when we acquired him from NJ at the deadline in 2021, especially with Anders Lee out for the season. Kyle was struggling with the woeful Devils before the trade, but his per82 goal scoring the previous FIVE years: (30, 27, 32, 30 and 32). Ya!!!! A true 30-point scorer with a pretty good slapshot to play on Matty's wing, finally!!!.....NOPE, he played ZERO minutes with Barzal....until the playoffs anyway. This season, and with a healthy Lee back? They got a whopping 78 minutes together before BT pulled the plug. Another 100 minutes or so with Zach Parise (who would turn out to be the consistent winger with Barzal all season) and that is all you saw of Kyle on Barzal's line...

And then there is the "potential" of Wahlstrom. Coming onto the scene in 2020-21, Oliver showed he immediately had the best sniping shot on the team. A perfect type of weapon for Barzal, right??
Nope. He too got ZERO minutes on Barzal's line that year....and the experiment this season lasted for 165:08.....which is about 25 seconds more than what Leo f***ING Komarov got the previous season.....

Absolute insanity....

 

[lafellaesobar]

"The league is changing so we need to get younger and faster" for like 15 years now.

i know you bleed sarcasm but the isles were so slow and geriatric against any playoff team that we badly need to add some young legs and skill. you cannot gaslight yourself into thinking trap hockey with Zdeno Chara and Andy Greene will make us stay good, and giving Barzal another revolving door of wingers. We need to get younger, period. Being the oldest team is not a good sign at all.

I want to touch base on this thought process. Simply because you are being sarcastic about an important point.

You do NOT need to build the Colorado Avalanche to win the Cup. The NHL is a copycat league. When they zig you zag. That is why Dobson fell to be honest. Remember when there was a push for all of these Smurfs on defense? What about when players like Nylander and Ehlers fell because they were "too small?"

Ironically this is around the time when the Kings were winning the Cup with their big, heavy teams.

The Islanders were one game away last season from the NHL deciding to go in the course of "playoff proven performers who are team first with a heavy defensive system" rather than the way the Avs built their team.

Once you start trying to copy what other teams built you end up with drafting Reinhart with the fourth pick.

so you believe that slower teams will come back now? colorado proved to me that depth is important, and more teams will now pursue guys who can be reliable 2nd-3rd liners.

 

[WangMustGo]

Ugh. No. You don't have to change out the other 11 forwards, yadda, yadda, yadda.

My god this has become utterly insane talk.

All of us have seen enough of Mathew Barzal, much like the other long term players to know what best suits him on that line....a sniper and/or someone who can keep up with his speed. Hell, all 31 other teams are salivating at the prospect of his coming UFA and hoping above hope that we fail to recognize it one more year...

There are ONLY three wings who remotely have these qualities in their arsenal....period.

No, it isn't Anders Lee, who labors up the ice and hangs out in front of the net. He excels at this, but that is all he is.

No, it isn't Josh Bailey- who like Barzal is more of a facilitator, proven repeatedly by his 40+ average in assists in his career and never reaching 20 goals in the process.....or the latest "pass" highlight where he ignored the empty net in front of him

No, it isn't Zach Parise, who at 37 years old is a fragment of his old self; where he never was much of a sniper anyway. The last time he scored 30 goals in a season was 2014-15

No, it wasn't Leo Komarov, who has no business being in a top 6 role EVER in his career

No, it wasn't washed up Travis Zajac either, who to the surprise of absolutely no one; retired the following season and never played again

The only three wings on our roster that would help Mathew Barzal reach his potential as a 1C are Anthony Beauvillier, Kyle Palmieri and Oliver Wahlstrom......period.

Beauvillier has the speed to keep up with Barzal, but after being on that line with him quite frequently in 2017-18 (you know when both players had their best offensive years, resulting in a Cadler for Mathew and the lone 20-goal season for AB), Barry went away from it more and more to where the two have hardly played on the same line at all the last 3 seasons (about 150 min TOTAL)

Palmieri, most thought was a shoo-in to play on the top line when we acquired him from NJ at the deadline in 2021, especially with Anders Lee out for the season. Kyle was struggling with the woeful Devils before the trade, but his per82 goal scoring the previous FIVE years: (30, 27, 32, 30 and 32). Ya!!!! A true 30-point scorer with a pretty good slapshot to play on Matty's wing, finally!!!.....NOPE, he played ZERO minutes with Barzal....until the playoffs anyway. This season, and with a healthy Lee back? They got a whopping 78 minutes together before BT pulled the plug. Another 100 minutes or so with Zach Parise (who would turn out to be the consistent winger with Barzal all season) and that is all you saw of Kyle on Barzal's line...

And then there is the "potential" of Wahlstrom. Coming onto the scene in 2020-21, Oliver showed he immediately had the best sniping shot on the team. A perfect type of weapon for Barzal, right??
Nope. He too got ZERO minutes on Barzal's line that year....and the experiment this season lasted for 165:08.....which is about 25 seconds more than what Leo f***ING Komarov got the previous season.....

Absolute insanity....

Exactly. Some posters bitch and cry about Barzal over and over, yet offer no solution.