Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[WangMustGo]

But did they take concrete steps to do so, or did they just suck? That's the point I'm differentiating about.

Canadian media in hockey is a whole different ballgame. The Laffs have THIRTY beat writers.

Nylander was 8th overall (Bennett, Dal Colle, Virtanen and Fleury 4-7 before him), Marner 4th (McDavid, Eichel and Strome before him) and Matthews the only #1 overall. Sounds more like they were fortunate to gather Nylander. Certainly doesn't feel like a tank job for multiple years.

Ottawa was solely based on Melnyk's checkbook.

Draisaitl probably shouldn't have been there for Edmonton at #3. Since 2015 (McDavid), their drafting has also STUNK.

Montreal didn't tank, they drafted HORRENDOUSLY for years. And compounded it by trading Sergachev for Drouin. Since 2012, Galchenyuk has the best resume of ANY drafted Montreal player (although Kotkaniemi and Caulfield will likely pass him)!

These weren't tear it down rebuilds, they were organizational incompetence masked as rebuilds.

Nylander, Reilly, Matthews, and Marner were all top 10 picks. Id say that alone qualifies as a full rebuild. Good teams dont go through rebuilds. You dont get to the point of needing a full rebuild without incompetent management. Edmonton is a prime example. They were and arguably still are very mismananged and ended up with the #1 overall pick since 2010 they have had a top 4 pick a total of 6 times. IMO that is clearly a rebuild.

A team like Vancouver should atleast consider a rebuild if their best player says he wants out.

It’s more of shame that Lou invested in a player that’s not really delivering on his end. He did it with Beau and he moved on from him. Let’s see what happens here with Barzal not having trade protection…

You could argue the same about many players on this team. Unfortunately Lou has not been able to get a franchise forward and it allows teams to hone in on Barzal and Horvat. Both are good players, but in an ideal world they are your 3rd/4th best forwards. Here they are expected to carry the offense. Nelson may be the only forward on this roster that is not overpaid or signed too long.

 

[Throttle]

If you're going to play the "on pace" game 7 games into the season, at least get it right. He's on pace for 59. A couple of secondary assists tonight and all of a sudden he's "on pace" for 70+. Whatever.

Barzal has proven to be just under a ppg player over his career. If he stays healthy and plays a full season, he should be good for 70.

On pace for 59 is uh, pathetic. And the total number of times he reached 70? Oh, that Dougie Weight hockey extravaganza.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

This team is going to be the goaltenders dragging us into the playoffs. And that was fine with a bunch of posters here last summer.

What does this mean? Are you somehow a superior fan and proved you are NOT fine with it if you watched the playoffs with your arm's crossed and a huge scowl on your face?

 

[Doshell Propivo]

On pace for 59 is uh, pathetic. And the total number of times he reached 70? Oh, that Dougie Weight hockey extravaganza.

Tracking "on pace" stats on October 29th is what is pathetic.

His ppg have been very consistent. Around .85. I'll let you do the math to see what that comes out to over a normal season.

The two covid years resulted in shortened seasons (i.e. significantly less than 82) and last year he missed 24 games because of injury. That's why my initial comment was "if he stays healthy and plays a full season."

 

[MJF]

What does this mean? Are you somehow a superior fan and proved you are NOT fine with it if you watched the playoffs with your arm's crossed and a huge scowl on your face?

No, it means that I don't think that's a good way to build a hockey team and it was at the heart of nearly every argument made against not rebuilding the roster, but a few folks around here are fine with it because it probably gets us in the playoffs and that's okay with them.

If you're one of those people, more power to you. That's your world view.

 

[doublechili]

No, it means that I don't think that's a good way to build a hockey team, but a few folks around here are fine with it because it probably gets us in the playoffs and that's okay with them.

If you're one of those people, more power to you. That's your world view.

If someone disagrees with a tear down rebuild they get lumped into the "okay with mediocrity" category. Because there are only two options....

 

[MJF]

If someone disagrees with a tear down rebuild they get lumped into the "okay with mediocrity" category. Because there are only two options....

Just like there are only 2 options, keep the roster or an endless rebuild? Because ALL rebuilds are endless

 

[doublechili]

Just like there are only 2 options, keep the roster or an endless rebuild?

No. Who said that?

 

[MJF]

No. Who said that?

Nobody around here ever, right?

 

[doublechili]

IDK. Speaking for myself, a full, tear-down rebuild takes probably 6-8 years for most teams (quicker for a team like NYR, BOS, TBL, COL, etc who are destinations for UFAs and players forcing trades). And there's no guarantee it will succeed. So I have no objection to a rebuild per se, but it depends on the circumstances and it shouldn't be done lightly. Also, in a cap world every team has to re-tool constantly anyway. So IMO, the Isles with an asset like Sorokin and some others are better off re-tooling than tearing it all down. Then there's the separate question whether Lou is the right guy for that. My opinion after last season ended was - maybe not. But since I'm not the owner and he's still here....

 

[WangMustGo]

On pace for 59 is uh, pathetic. And the total number of times he reached 70? Oh, that Dougie Weight hockey extravaganza.

PPG is pretty useless with such a small sample size. Jack Hughes is on pace for 185 points and Ovechkin is on pace for 20 goals. Neither one of those are at all likely. More likely Barzal ends ip with somewhere between 65-70 points.

Im much more concerned with Lee, Pageau, and Wahlstrom than I am with Barzal. 1 good game and suddenly he is on pace for PPG again.

 

[Zeeker]

No, it means that I don't think that's a good way to build a hockey team and it was at the heart of nearly every argument made against not rebuilding the roster, but a few folks around here are fine with it because it probably gets us in the playoffs and that's okay with them.

If you're one of those people, more power to you. That's your world view.

OMG, do you want the Islanders to win every game 10-0 and cruise to the Cup? Is that what you want???

 

[WangMustGo]

IDK. Speaking for myself, a full, tear-down rebuild takes probably 6-8 years for most teams (quicker for a team like NYR, BOS, TBL, COL, etc who are destinations for UFAs and players forcing trades). And there's no guarantee it will succeed. So I have no objection to a rebuild per se, but it depends on the circumstances and it shouldn't be done lightly. Also, in a cap world every team has to re-tool constantly anyway. So IMO, the Isles with an asset like Sorokin and some others are better off re-tooling than tearing it all down. Then there's the separate question whether Lou is the right guy for that. My opinion after last season ended was - maybe not. But since I'm not the owner and he's still here....

A rebuild is absolutely nonsensical. Anyone supporting a full rebuild is insane. The rebuilds that work are either very lucky (Pittsburgh, Chicago, Edmonton, Toronto) or take a very long time (Buffalo, Ottawa, Detroit). A full rebuild with competent management/ownership will likely take 6+ years and thats assuming you draft well. I want no part of becoming the next Anaheim/Buffalo/Arizona. Shiny prospects are nice, but overrated.

 

[MJF]

OMG, do you want the Islanders to win every game 10-0 and cruise to the Cup? Is that what you want???

It would be nice.

But what I really want is the Islanders to be able to score more goals and take the pressure off their goaltenders. Maybe get those goals on the power play perhaps? Last few years that’s been to much of an ask, so we need our goaltending to steal wins for us.

 

[Throttle]

IDK. Speaking for myself, a full, tear-down rebuild takes probably 6-8 years for most teams (quicker for a team like NYR, BOS, TBL, COL, etc who are destinations for UFAs and players forcing trades). And there's no guarantee it will succeed. So I have no objection to a rebuild per se, but it depends on the circumstances and it shouldn't be done lightly. Also, in a cap world every team has to re-tool constantly anyway. So IMO, the Isles with an asset like Sorokin and some others are better off re-tooling than tearing it all down. Then there's the separate question whether Lou is the right guy for that. My opinion after last season ended was - maybe not. But since I'm not the owner and he's still here....

It’s a really difficult scenario to play crystal balls with. COL had a strong team, but Makar sets them apart in many ways. What happens if they select Patrick or Glass in the 4 spot vs. Makar? What happens if PHI takes Makar at 2 instead of Patrick?

Too many rebuild dreams focus on a 100% hit rate in lotto picks without considering the misses that stall or negatively impact the rebuild.

The Isles can sunset number of expiring contracts and maybe move on from someone like JGP to upgrade for the price. Gonna have to take the licks on Lee until that runs aground unless the team changes styles.

 

[SI]

You'll only trade for those two if Nelson is involved btw, and Brock is still one of our best players. I think if you're Calgary you just want to get the money off your hands, so that trade isn't gonna happen. It'll have to be Ferraro and Dube since they're cheaper and fix the depth issues. Seriously I think Dube for Wahlstrom would be a good move, especially with Dube being a pending RFA.

Hanifin and Lindholm?
Or Zadorov and Lindholm?

Nelson does not have to be involved in any deal for Lindholm, Hanifin, or Zadorov - all 3 are expiring contracts - Horvat deal is a good template for Elias Lindholm. And hampus Lindholm is also a good template for Hanifin. Zadorov will be a 2nd or 3rd or a 2nd and a 3rd.

Any deal for Lindholm and Hanifin are probably closer to the deadline and again the way it looks is that Hanifin doesn't want to return and wants to be in the US and back east.

 

[xECK29x]

Best start to a season for the isles since 2015-16 but we are talking a rebuild

 

[YearlyLottery]

If someone disagrees with a tear down rebuild they get lumped into the "okay with mediocrity" category. Because there are only two options....

That is in part what makes it difficult to have conversations in general. If you disagree with someone you are automatically lumped into the extreme opposite viewpoint.

 

[MJF]

Best start to a season for the isles since 2015-16 but we are talking a rebuild

Not anymore. That should have started in March of 2022.

And you are lauding a low bar.

 

[Zeeker]

Not anymore. That should have started in March of 2022.

And you are lauding a low bar.

It’s painful how some are pinning hope on a 4-2-1 start (4-2-2 now) with a cupcake schedule, when the team has spent the last 170+ games showing us who they are.

As always, I hope for a miracle turnaround, but mid team gonna do mid things.

 

[CBG]

IMO the team should have been blown up prior to last year again that is just my opinion. If you are content with possibly squeaking into the playoffs and maybe winning a round or 2 - which could happen if our goalie stands on his head and that might make some people here happy but I want a team that can compete with the upper echelon teams and win a cup and as it is this team will be fortunate to just make the playoffs. I am also of the opinion that a rebuild would NOT take a long time you just need the right guy doing the rebuild and NOT a guy who over pays his average players and then straps your teams cap space -- and lets be honest a rebuild would not take as long as waiting for this current roster as constructed to win a cup.,,,again this is just my 2 cents

 

[Top Corner]

With things the way they are related to cap and roster there are things Lou might be able to do but doesn’t. To add a player to help with our lack of offence , he could have had a Sprong for next to nothing instead of watching Wahlstrom try and find his game. Durzi is another that people here raved about which would have been a great pickup. He seems set on putting this group out there hoping for different results. I’d like to see him add talent at the expense of some character.

 

[leeroggy]

With things the way they are related to cap and roster there are things Lou might be able to do but doesn’t. To add a player to help with our lack of offence , he could have had a Sprong for next to nothing instead of watching Wahlstrom try and find his game. Durzi is another that people here raved about which would have been a great pickup. He seems set on putting this group out there hoping for different results. I’d like to see him add talent at the expense of some character.

Maybe you should be asking why Seattle let Sprong go when they had plenty of cap space and he signed for $2 million? He had 21G/26A last year in 66 games yet was let allowed to walk.
Over his career he was reputed to be pretty lousy defensively. Whether true or not, there had to be something Seattle couldn't live with for $2 million. This is his FIFTH NHL team at age 26; a red flag should be attached to his name.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

No, it means that I don't think that's a good way to build a hockey team and it was at the heart of nearly every argument made against not rebuilding the roster, but a few folks around here are fine with it because it probably gets us in the playoffs and that's okay with them.

If you're one of those people, more power to you. That's your world view.

Here's my world view:

The team that Lou inherited was flawed. The quick turnaround from pretender to contender was pretty remarkable. They chose to add pieces instead of tearing it down. I supported that. There are still flaws and we are a long ways from the team that everyone wants - a perennial powerhouse that will challenge for (and win) the cup year after year. But what I think we CAN have with his team is a perennial playoff team that can go on some more long runs. There is still a lot here. More blood to get out if this stone. Embarking on a rebuild in hopes that the team is in a better position than it is now afterwards (it may not be), is a riskier strategy. I'd rather not waste prime years of Barzal, Sorokin, etc.

And considering all that this franchise has been through, it is surprising to me why fans shit on ownership/management for prioritizing a solid, stable team.

 

[Tahoeblue]

I appreciate this post.

Not sure if there are many clear candidates for LHD or a sneaky top 6 player at a low cost. The season just started, so teams all fancy themselves in it, and then you have the CAP to contend with.

One team in particular that I can think of who have D available is Columbus - does Jake Bean fit the mould? 2.35 AAV is not a cap hit the Isles can fit right now. He is an RFA and could be someone who is easier to fit cap-wise at the deadline.

Maybe Edmonton needs to shake things up and is maybe open to moving someone like Brett Kulak, he would stabilize that left side but makes 3x more than Aho and Bolduc - not sure if that is worth it. And they also have Broberg, but he is so unproven similar to Bolduc.

Then there is Calgary, who might be in free fall at the moment and I am not sure they are willing to say they are out of it in just the first few weeks of the season, but they may be big sellers if things continue to trend in this direction. Elias Lindholm could be a Horvat-type pickup for some team this year, or as you mentioned, Dube, who is an RFA and might be easier to fit than someone like Mangiapane, who would also be an incredible pick-up. And then you have Hanifin, who will be cheaper to attain and easier to fit if Calgary retains at the deadline. Lindholm and/or Hanifin could be game-changing types of additions. Any deal would have to come with a contract immediately after acquisition.

San Jose is another team in freefall - Tomas Hertl is the type of F we need, but the Isles cannot fit the cap hit, so maybe Duclair at 50% at the deadline can be another player, but he is so inconsistent.

IMO, the Isles should roll with what they have and by Christmas the gaps and strengths will emerge. I for one would be all in on selling 2024 1st for someone like Lindholm or Hanifin, depending on the biggest need.

Hey, thanks for the response. You bring up some solid names and are certainly well versed with players outside the Isles who could possible be an option. Really like the Jake Bean comment. Agreed that this is the lineup for certainly the next few months and looks like Lee has found his way back on the top line which seems to be the right choice for now. I do like JGP between Wally and SH and hope they get going.

Hell, if Mayfield doesn't come back soon- RHD may be a concern as well. Tough result last night for sure.