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Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

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Something else to consider... this team is going to be big. Like really big. From last year's majority starters to a projection of this year's:

Anthony Beauvillier: 5'11, 180 -> Pierre Engvall 6'5, 215
Zach Parise: 5'11, 195 -> Julien Gauthier 6'4, 225
Sebastian Aho: 5'10, 180 -> Samuel Bolduc 6'4, 220
Josh Bailey: 6'1, 200 -> Bo Horvat 6'1, 215

Don't think we've lost much speed with those substitutions either. I think this makes our smallest projected starter Kyle Palmieri, who certainly does not play his size. The team is going to be biiiiiiiiiig
 
impaaaaaact said:
Something else to consider... this team is going to be big. Like really big. From last year's majority starters to a projection of this year's:

Anthony Beauvillier: 5'11, 180 -> Pierre Engvall 6'5, 215
Zach Parise: 5'11, 195 -> Julien Gauthier 6'4, 225
Sebastian Aho: 5'10, 180 -> Samuel Bolduc 6'4, 220
Josh Bailey: 6'1, 200 -> Bo Horvat 6'1, 215

Don't think we've lost much speed with those substitutions either. I think this makes our smallest projected starter Kyle Palmieri, who certainly does not play his size. The team is going to be biiiiiiiiiig
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So bigger and not as good ..
 
Sparksrus3 said:
So bigger and not as good ..
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Horvat/Engvall over Beauvillier/Bailey is a substantial improvement. 90% of this board was calling for Aho’s head every night. Parise was great for a while but really slowed down towards he end of the year, as 40 year olds tend to do. I see this as a massive upgrade personally
 
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MJF said:
Identifying the problem is the first step to fixing it. It would never be a case of a mass exit. You don’t resign Martin im 2019, you don’t resign Clutterbuck two years later. You don’t commit money and term to Cizikas and the 4th line to keep them for going on 10 years. That’s a starting point.

I have a better question. Why don't you tell me how the Islanders break the cycle of re-signing their own underproducing players and leaving themselves no out for improving the team from the outside?

Here's a tip for you. This is a discussion forum. If my criticisms continually get you agitated as they do, don't respond to me. Skip over them.
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I would skip over it, but you need some accountability. I know i probably won't get it from you, but I'm going to at least challenge you.... might open your eyes a bit.

So you don't think Martin and Clutterbuck have had anything to do with the Islanders' success? The line that moss pundits and opposing coaches credited with changing the tide of many games. Lou looks at this team as an engine that needs all its parts to work. With no real superstars, I tend to agree. And the money from those two guys was not going to get us a superstar.
 
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IslesNorway said:
There's a difference between letting all players walk and signing them to 8 year extensions.

I'd have no trouble with Mayfield and Engvall for another 3 years or so but Seven?? It's madness. Another year or two with Varly would be fine, but four years? It's these sort of deals that kill any wriggle room the GM and eventually the League has. The more players are signed long term, the fewer trades and less interest garnered. It also blocks the way of prospects as the NHL rosters are mostly based on who's on a one way deal or a multi year deal. Any players drafted by the Islanders in the next 4-5 years has little to no chance of ever making the team because their route to the team is blocked.

I fully expect Lou to re-up Martin and Clutterbuck for another three or four years come the season's end. Heck, he might even offer Palmieri a few more years to fully ensure this team is going down quicker than the Titanic.
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So, let's get some facts out of the way. You either pay players more money for shorter term or less money for longer term. That's just the way it is.

So why contradict yourself? Your first line is pretty much admitting you want to let them walk because salary cap makes it so we can't offer bigger money for shorter term. With no internal replacements, you'll just be spending that money on a UFA. SOMEBODY is going to get 7 years..... unless you want an AHL guy in that spot. Is that what you are saying? You want to replace Mayfield and Engvall with someone like Bolduc and Dufour? I don't think we have the talent level to go that route. Season irons out pretty quickly and suddenly you are in a hole before you can blink, if those two don’t pull their weight right away. Teams have proven time and time again how possible it is to get out of a salary if need be.
 
impaaaaaact said:
Horvat/Engvall over Beauvillier/Bailey is a substantial improvement. 90% of this board was calling for Aho’s head every night. Parise was great for a while but really slowed down towards he end of the year, as 40 year olds tend to do. I see this as a massive upgrade personally
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Parise was one of the best players on the team. People are drastically underestimating how much he will be missed.
 
LeapOnOver said:
I would skip over it, but you need some accountability. I know i probably won't get it from you, but I'm going to at least challenge you.... might open your eyes a bit.

So you don't think Martin and Clutterbuck have had anything to do with the Islanders' success? The line that moss pundits and opposing coaches credited with changing the tide of many games. Lou looks at this team as an engine that needs all its parts to work. With no real superstars, I tend to agree. And the money from those two guys was not going to get us a superstar.
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It has to start somewhere. That line is 5 years past their prime. Clutterbuck can’t stay in the lineup and while Martin may have had a nice year last year and the line been responsible for a measure of success, the B4LIH was not worth keeping together since 2019 to hold out for the occasional moment they have now. So yeah, don’t resign those guys, Stop building a team to take on the 2018 Capitals. The success the 4th line was part of was never something we could build on, and those kinds of player should never have the outsized role they have on this team, they should be the cherry on the sundae, but Lou wants a team that “plays like men” so they’re still here. The game was already changing. Be proactive. Lou should have thanked them for their contributions and let them walk away.

There are contracts that are less painful to move and more painful to move. The ones like Clutterbuck, Martin, Johnston are easy to move. Pageau and Palmieri would take adding an asset. Again, if you aren’t so keen on adding a pick and a prospect to gwt Palmieri’s cap hit off the books, then take the space you can get wherever you can get it.
 
LeapOnOver said:
So, let's get some facts out of the way. You either pay players more money for shorter term or less money for longer term. That's just the way it is.

So why contradict yourself? Your first line is pretty much admitting you want to let them walk because salary cap makes it so we can't offer bigger money for shorter term. With no internal replacements, you'll just be spending that money on a UFA. SOMEBODY is going to get 7 years..... unless you want an AHL guy in that spot. Is that what you are saying? You want to replace Mayfield and Engvall with someone like Bolduc and Dufour? I don't think we have the talent level to go that route. Season irons out pretty quickly and suddenly you are in a hole before you can blink, if those two don’t pull their weight right away. Teams have proven time and time again how possible it is to get out of a salary if need be.
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Except now that more than half the league are up against the cap, it's getting harder and harder, and more and more costly every time to get rid of unwanted players. Nowadays you're seeing younger players getting waived because they can't get rid. The Islanders have a whole bunch they'll never get rid of.

Personally, I wouldn't have minded to let either walk. This was an opportunity for this team to retool a bit. Get some of the old, declining players out and hopefully bring in some younger talent. There is a difference between paying Mayfield for seven years and replacing him with an AHL scrub, you know. And let's not pretend Engvall is something special, he really is not.
I take you are are happy with watching the same team for the next 7 years then? If we had a team competing for the cup, who might on the cusp of greatness, then it would be something to look forward to. But instead we are left with a declining group of players all signed for years and years. Enjoy it if you can.

Why do we not have talent to let middling players walk and are left to sign them to deals that will hurt the team long term? Yeah, right. I think you know. If Lou was capable of doing some actual planning, we might well have been able to replace UFAs with players coming through the ranks, but he is not.
 
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duster19 said:
Parise was one of the best players on the team. People are drastically underestimating how much he will be missed.
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I think he was the most reliable and consistent player on the team, but I wouldn't surely call him on the best.

The Islanders are going to have to use their prospects and depth to push the rest of the roster to make their improvements.

I'm talking about Wahlstrom returning from injury, Fasching trying to hold down a job, Gauthier pushing for an everyday role, Durandeau looking to break through, Dufour showcasing his shot and speed, Iskhakov trying to make a name for himself, etc. For the most part, those guys were too green last year and we're legitimate options which is not the case anymore.

I feel like a broken record, but I'm curious to see what kind of leash the fourth line gets this year with so many players on the cusp. Do they try and stash someone like Iskhakov on the fourth line at even strength to be a PP quarterback on that right dot?
 
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duster19 said:
Parise was one of the best players on the team. People are drastically underestimating how much he will be missed.
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I love Parise as much as the next guy but he was pretty invisible over the last 15-20 games and posted a total of 0 points in 75 minutes in the playoffs. There's a reason he's taking at least the first part of the season off
 
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Give me William Dufour on opening night if Palmieri can't play.

also i think that Parise, for as solid as he was, might have to see his role taken by Holmstrom. Parise is a good player but man he had stretches of invisibility like Impaaaaact said. If he does come back, good.
 
Personally I’d like to see this:
Holmstrom-Horvat-Barzal
Engvall-Nelson-Palmieri (Gauthier if Palmieri can’t go)
Lee-Pageau-Gauthier
Fasching-Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck (wingers rotating so Cal doesn’t fall apart and Martin doesn’t fatigue too early on)

I know Dufour will get sent down (unfortunately) due to too many NHL forwards and Wahlstrom just does too much puck watching to replace anyone.
 
IslesNorway said:
Except now that more than half the league are up against the cap, it's getting harder and harder, and more and more costly every time to get rid of unwanted players. Nowadays you're seeing younger players getting waived because they can't get rid. The Islanders have a whole bunch they'll never get rid of.

Personally, I wouldn't have minded to let either walk. This was an opportunity for this team to retool a bit. Get some of the old, declining players out and hopefully bring in some younger talent. There is a difference between paying Mayfield for seven years and replacing him with an AHL scrub, you know. And let's not pretend Engvall is something special, he really is not.
I take you are are happy with watching the same team for the next 7 years then? If we had a team competing for the cup, who might on the cusp of greatness, then it would be something to look forward to. But instead we are left with a declining group of players all signed for years and years. Enjoy it if you can.

Why do we not have talent to let middling players walk and are left to sign them to deals that will hurt the team long term? Yeah, right. I think you know. If Lou was capable of doing some actual planning, we might well have been able to replace UFAs with players coming through the ranks, but he is not.
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Draft picks, when you are making the playoffs every year, are a total crapshoot. But if you wanted to just let Engvall and Mayfield walk, then yeah we would have a higher pick... and back to the HF equivalent of excitement (draft parties and lottery ball viewings). No thanks on that.
 
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