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Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

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Absolutely ludicrous to suggest now that we should trade Barzal. First Nelson and now this???

Even with his "struggles" he is still the best forward on the team.....period. Aggravating for sure, but his numbers clearly point that out.

Carreer:

Matthew Barzal: .86 points per game (362 in 420 games)
Bo Horvat: .67 points per game (436 in 651 games)
Brock Nelson: .79 points per game (462 in 758 games)

Last 4 seasons:

MB: .85 points per game (215 in 254 games)- barely a drop off
BH: .78 points per game (214 in 274 games)
BN: .79 points per game (221 in 278 games)

Considering Bo just had his breakout season and upped his 2-year total to .82 points per game at age 28 and 29, and Brock is coming off his two best seasons where he averaged .87 points per game at age 30 and 31......perhaps we can see what Matty does in his age 26/27 seasons before jumping ship???

Insanity....
 
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Throttle said:
And a team like Vegas would not get married to players like this, they would move along - which is what I have been suggesting.

Pulock and Barzal can net a nice return in various ways, both are not worth their current contracts. So, get out from underneath them. Both started to regress in Year 4 of Barry and flatlined in Year 1 of Lambert - during a time when the game opened up, both of these guys struggled on their own merits.

On Barzal/Horvat, that’s a matter of preference, I think Horvat better fits the Isles style of play now and in the future. I would have traded Barzal for Horvat, kept the pick, maybe even Beau or trade him in an adjacent trade, then you have $9M in your pocket to work with to improve the team.
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Horvat is nowhere near the player Barzal is. Trading Barzal for Horvat would have been horrible asset management. Barzal with a horrible PP was on pace for 72 points.

Pulock is a good top 4 RD. He is worth his contract. Lee, Horvat, Pageau, Bailey, Palmieri are all overpaid and they are much bigger issues than Barzal or Pulock. You just hate Barzal so you spout nonsense about him.
 
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WangMustGo said:
Horvat is nowhere near the player Barzal is. Trading Barzal for Horvat would have been horrible asset management. Barzal with a horrible PP was on pace for 72 points.

Pulock is a good top 4 RD. He is worth his contract. Lee, Horvat, Pageau, Bailey, Palmieri are all overpaid and they are much bigger issues than Barzal or Pulock. You just hate Barzal so you spout nonsense about him.
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One of the dumbest suggestions I've read here.
 
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You remember how the offense couldn't generate anything in the second half of the season because no one could skate the puck through the neutral zone?

Yeah, that would be the entire season if Barzal was traded.
 
Nizami Ganjavi said:
Barzal averages 60 points a year. Correct. Meier averages 47.

Over their careers, Barzal is .86 PPG and Meier is .69.

ooooooof...
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How do those numbers look w/o Dougie Weight hockey?

Paying Meirer
WangMustGo said:
Horvat is nowhere near the player Barzal is. Trading Barzal for Horvat would have been horrible asset management. Barzal with a horrible PP was on pace for 72 points.

Pulock is a good top 4 RD. He is worth his contract. Lee, Horvat, Pageau, Bailey, Palmieri are all overpaid and they are much bigger issues than Barzal or Pulock. You just hate Barzal so you spout nonsense about him.
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Stop with the childish, ‘hate the player’ nonsense. People can have dissenting opinions on a player, correct? He may be the most talented, but is he the most effective? Can he truly play with other players? Carry a team? Perform at the value of his contract? Can he go to the net vs trying to play his way? Way too many flaws on the player.
 
JTToilinginToronto said:
You remember how the offense couldn't generate anything in the second half of the season because no one could skate the puck through the neutral zone?

Yeah, that would be the entire season if Barzal was traded.
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Remember they played over .600 hockey without him and made the playoffs? Gee…
 
crashthenet said:
Sakic looking a lot smarter today then that guy who stuck his hand in the snowblower not so long ago. Colton and a 1st plus a flyer on Fairbrother for Newhook? Not too bad.
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Sakic isn't GM anymore, but I'm not sure what his current influence is on the GM.
 
It is really nonsense. It is about points, not goals. Barzal is a pass-first center and although we all wish he would shoot and therefore score more, it is absolutely INSANE to suggest he hasn't been worth his contract.

He was a .86 points per game player during his 3/21 million contract.

That is actually slightly underpaid when comparing salaries for players as it oddly comes to about a million per the pts average, making him a 8 million plus player while getting paid only 7.

He is just now entering his 26 year old season. Like I mentioned above Nelson (who has been underpaid as well, specifically last 2 seasons) did not have his breakout seasons until age 30/31 and Horvat just had his at 29.

He now is commanding 9 million per season and he is going to have to earn that with a jump up from his .86 and I think he is more than capable....

Until then it is absolutely ludicrous to suggest he hasnt lived up to what he has been paid thus far....even when we want him to do more....
 
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Throttle said:
Remember they played over .600 hockey without him and made the playoffs? Gee…
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When Barzal went down, they had 23 games remaining. Ten of them were against teams that eventually made the playoffs. Two of the ten were against the team that eventually won the 2nd WC spot in the West.

That was the reason for the Isles late season push. Not that the team is better without its best forward. The team was fortunate enough to have a relatively easier schedule when the best forward went down.

The idea that the Isles are better without its best forward is barely worth even debating.
 
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SI said:
3 years ago the team was in the Eastern Conference championship - the 1st of TWO.
And techincally he added 4+ m to the cap not 8.5

And why can't we have it both ways - it's nuanced.
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I appreciate the nuance.

3 years ago the Isles made the conference finals without Horvat...But they did have Trotz (to me this is the key point).

Ironically, or sadly, about 80% of the team that made that playoff run was built by snow. And as someone who you know was no fan of snow it's really something to say that I think the Isles are in worse shape now going forward. This team is older with more money tied up long-term, limited picks to trade, negative cap space, and literally zero farm system...And there's no hall of fame coach to overcome the significant flaws of this roster.

If someone wants to give Lou all the credit for those playoff runs...That's cool. I can get behind that. But if as a result of those magical 2-3 years which we will all remember fondly, they can't see what's going on with today's roster/cap space/farm system/coaching, then that's a problem.

No one should keep a job because of what happened years ago when they are clearly not performing up to expectations now. And to continually say things like, "Well let's see what happens this summer," (when that's already been said before), I think is just pushing the pain this franchise is going to ultimately face further back and extend it longer.
 
SI said:
Loads of work? if the wheels come off, then it is a full-on rebuild not the end of the world.

Huge shoutout to @CupHolders @JKP @Nizami Ganjavi for the posts earlier on this thread reminding everyone what the 90's and 00's looked like for this team. Do you remember? You should.

When the next GM comes in because Lou went for it and failed, then the next GM starts with a clean slate and can rebuild... Jarmo went for it with the Bluejackets and lost major assets and within a year he recouped assets and draft capital and with the cap space made a big signing and now will add a top 3 pick in a very good draft that was 4 years ago. Just a little perspective.
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Yes, I recall all of the lean and bad years since I first got hooked on the Cinderella team in 1975 or so. Even had the pleasure of playing golf with the late Hall of Famer Rod Gilbert years back. We've had many shady years and some real funky owners so when I discuss LOU, I'm doing so with the premise that he has had no owner issues hindering his performance unlike some of the past GM's
 
Can we maybe wait for actual games to be played before judging a contract?

I mean am I supposed to be upset that Barzal hasn’t scored yet this week… on the ice that is :sarcasm:

Barzal has a full year with Horvat. Possibly other players, depending on other offseason moves. It’s on him to make adjustments to fit the improvement of team talent.

It never fails to amaze me how Barzal is considered a finished product at a younger age than Brock “JANE” Nelson. Only for some to turn around and use Brock as an example to criticize Barzal.
 
JKP said:
No Lou, no Trotz. No way he comes to the dumpster fire without Lou at the helm.
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Yeah...? So then how come Lou came to this "dumpster fire"?

Unless you think that Lou only came here because no other franchise would've given him the complete autonomy that the Isles did, then we need to give Malkin more credit here. We'll know for sure when we see who Malkin replaces Lou with whenever that happens, but given all that's gone on on-ice and off it over the past 5+ years it's all Malkin steering the ship.
 
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