Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[YearlyLottery]

I'm still waiting on people to tell us why Lou Lamoriello is anything more than an average GM now. If we're being honest it was Trotz that was the reason for those semi-finals runs. Now that he's gone we can see what Lou has "built" - A very average roster, with limited cap space, and zero farm system.

And if the argument is...Well Lou got Trotz to come here, I'd say that's more happenstance than anything else. When Trotz was fired from the Capitals there was exactly one head coach opening in the NHL....Ours. And it takes about as much brains to offer your head coach opening to a hall of fame coach as it does to draft Connor McDavid #1 overall.

Because even after he let that Hall of Fame coach go and had to find his replacement...Lou then decided that this team he "believes is a Stanley Cup contender" he entrusted with a 1st time rookie coach. To me that's GM malpractice.

We were in hell with snow as GM and no question Lou is better, but let's not confuse "better" with "actually great." Without an all-world coach to cover up Lou's roster-building flaws I'm afraid we're stuck in quicksand (and sinking further) as long as he isn't replaced.





To me the nail in the Maple Leafs chances was not that they signed Tavares. I mean let's be honest...If a true #1 center comes to market and you can sign him you should do that almost any time.

The issue was that once Dubas did that he should have immediately shipped Marner out the door for defensive help. Once he gave Marner 11M/year on a long term deal they were stuck and now you're seeing the results.

My concern with Dubas is not his ability to acquire talent, but that...

A) He can overpay
B) He absolutely buckles almost every time in contract negotiations. That is going to ultimately get you in cap trouble.


And let me also say...Whether or not Dubas is the next GM here is one thing, but regardless of that...Lou should NOT be picking his successor. Only Malkin should.

It must be awfully easy to say Lou is a bad GM when you take away any potential positive.

 

[Lek]

ok....so, lets assume Lou is an average GM.....can we have a ranking of all the GM's please so we can see where average ranks....who are the geniuses, above average, below average and complete buttheads and what makes them so.

Personally, i think Lou is an above average GM. Perfect by no means, but best i can tell from my limited GM experience....above average.

 

[periferal]

It must be awfully easy to say Lou is a bad GM when you take away any potential positive.

From my post just this afternoon:

"Again no one is saying Lou is a terrible GM, but what I'm saying is that he isn't much better than average."

It's much easier for you to label me as all black or white because I come on so strong, but if you take a moment to breathe and digest what I'm saying you might truly understand where I'm coming from.

I judge ANY GM through this one lens: Can he lead us to a Cup.

...And I don't believe Lou can. That doesn't make him a "bad GM" (as I've already said he's about "average"), but because I don't believe he can lead us to a Cup I want him replaced...Because all I care about is winning it all.

Not sure if you watch Islanders hockey to see them win a Cup....Or you don't care about results and just enjoy hockey...Or anything in between. Whatever your goal for the Islanders is, if you believe Lou achieves it for you then we won't agree, but god bless. Please enjoy.

Again all I want is for the Islanders to win the very last game of the season one year, and thus anytime I believe a player, coach, GM, or owner is in the way of that goal I'm going to mention it. That goes for Lou, but previously wang, capuano, the "Gang of 4," snow, Milbury, and several others since Bill Torrey ran things.

With Malkin as owner I actually have some real hope that he can lead this team to the promise land. He lured in a very respected NHL executive in Lou and finally for the first time in forever the Islanders are being run like a first class organization. Lou absolutely got this team back on track and he deserves credit for that.

However for any fan to ignore the place this team finds itself given the roster, age, cap space, lack of tradable contracts, even less cap space, and basically zero prospects to develop and/or trade, I just don't understand how anyone can think Lou is doing a great job....IF THE GOAL IS TO WIN A CUP.

So again...Lou is not "bad," he's just not good enough to me. And across the board in my life I try to replace things that aren't good enough.

 

[YearlyLottery]

From my post just this afternoon:

"Again no one is saying Lou is a terrible GM, but what I'm saying is that he isn't much better than average."

It's much easier for you to label me as all black or white because I come on so strong, but if you take a moment to breathe and digest what I'm saying you might truly understand where I'm coming from.

I judge ANY GM through this one lens: Can he lead us to a Cup.

...And I don't believe Lou can. That doesn't make him a "bad GM" (as I've already said he's about "average"), but because I don't believe he can lead us to a Cup I want him replaced...Because all I care about is winning it all.

Not sure if you watch Islanders hockey to see them win a Cup....Or you don't care about results and just enjoy hockey...Or anything in between. Whatever your goal for the Islanders is, if you believe Lou achieves it for you then we won't agree, but god bless. Please enjoy.

Again all I want is for the Islanders to win the very last game of the season one year, and thus anytime I believe a player, coach, GM, or owner is in the way of that goal I'm going to mention it. That goes for Lou, but previously wang, capuano, the "Gang of 4," snow, Milbury, and several others since Bill Torrey ran things.

With Malkin as owner I actually have some real hope that he can lead this team to the promise land. He lured in a very respected NHL executive in Lou and finally for the first time in forever the Islanders are being run like a first class organization. Lou absolutely got this team back on track and he deserves credit for that.

However for any fan to ignore the place this team finds itself given the roster, age, cap space, lack of tradable contracts, even less cap space, and basically zero prospects to develop and/or trade, I just don't understand how anyone can think Lou is doing a great job....IF THE GOAL IS TO WIN A CUP.

So again...Lou is not "bad," he's just not good enough to me. And across the board in my life I try to replace things that aren't good enough.

I suppose with many GM's though you are eventually going to lead yourself to feeling doubt over their ability. Whether a couple of draft picks go wrong, a few disappointing playoff exits, a couple of brutal contracts, or maybe bad trades. These are going to happen to everyone. Dubas is seen as the wonder kid around the league yet he has many faults as well. Stevie Y is still attempting to rebuild Detroit. He has seen how difficult it is without superstar talent like he had in Tampa to start with.

The offseason comes down to can Lou move out 2/3 of Pageau, Bailey, and Palmieri. Moving one out is a must, but moving two out would be a major win.

I have written extensively about moves I would like Lou to make, but using my time here to say I want the guy gone who just signed on for another three years is a waste of time in my opinion. I would rather talk about what he should do for the offseason and how he should do it.

 

[JKP]

If your goal is to win a cup, stay miles away from Dubas…

 

[doublechili]

Exactly. My whole point.

So if Dubas or Chris Lamoriello becomes the next GM, do you think Malkin would have chosen either 100% on his own?

I don't know exactly how it works, but I would assume Malkin makes the final sign off on whoever is hired. I'm sure he would get input from others, including Lou (depending on the circumstances). We do know that when Malkin hired Lou he called around and spoke with a lot of NHL people. I assume that means at the league offices and with other teams. But it's not like Lou would pick the person and tell the owner who the next GM is going to be.

 

[The Real JT]

I don't know exactly how it works, but I would assume Malkin makes the final sign off on whoever is hired. …But it's not like Lou would pick the person and tell the owner who the next GM is going to be.

I hope and I think you’re right but you’re more confident about the process than I am.

Way back when, a different owner became enamored with a middling goalie who morphed into a middling GM. I don’t think you can underestimate the hold some players and executives have over owners.

 

[periferal]

I suppose with many GM's though you are eventually going to lead yourself to feeling doubt over their ability. Whether a couple of draft picks go wrong, a few disappointing playoff exits, a couple of brutal contracts, or maybe bad trades. These are going to happen to everyone. Dubas is seen as the wonder kid around the league yet he has many faults as well. Stevie Y is still attempting to rebuild Detroit. He has seen how difficult it is without superstar talent like he had in Tampa to start with.

I actually think Sakic was an overrated GM, but of course when you suck enough to pick top 5 a bunch and get MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, and Makar well that alone is a core that can lead you to a Cup.

Other GMs (and coaches) have followed this same route - Riding a core highly drafted players to a Cup.

In theory I think Lou could do the same but...This guy one has one gear in his car and that's forward. Unless he took over a total rebuild he either refuses, or doesn't know how, to retool/rebuild. And it's that exact reason why I think we're stuck in quicksand until he's gone.

The offseason comes down to can Lou move out 2/3 of Pageau, Bailey, and Palmieri. Moving one out is a must, but moving two out would be a major win.

Pageau and Palmeiri are going to cost assets (we can't afford to give up) to move...And yet they were our 5th and 7th leading scorers on a team that has trouble scoring. That should tell you the corner Lou has backed us into.

We're not talking about adding talent to a roster that needs it...We're talking about trying to remove 30 goals and 70+ points out of this lineup and calling it a positive?

Woo boy.

I have written extensively about moves I would like Lou to make, but using my time here to say I want the guy gone who just signed on for another three years is a waste of time in my opinion. I would rather talk about what he should do for the offseason and how he should do it.

First...Where did it say that Lou signed on for 3 years?

And personally...I'd rather keep shining a light on the problem as opposed to magically hoping that problem becomes a solution.

When we were in the middle of the Milbury and snow tenures I saw very little reason to debate the moves they might make because it was truly rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Way too many fans had unjustified hope when we can all see it was a futile exercise.

Again Lou is better than they were, but it's his very moves that have backed us into a corner that is going to cause some major pain in the next few years.

 

[seafoam]

Whoever succeeds Lamoriello will have a pretty workable template to go off of (at least at this current point in time). There’s still time for him to do some damage, but the sooner the successor gets involved, the sooner they can attempt to influence decisions that are made.

Barzal + Horvat - 5 years remaining
Cizikas - 1 year remaining
Pulock - 4 years remaining
Pelech - 3 years remaining

Of course, there will be a lack of draft captial and a gutted prospect pool, but the easiest way for new GMs to put their stamp on the organization is through the draft so I’m not overly worried about that.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

So how likely are Dubas rumors of him coming to the Islanders?
It sure would come full circle for those of you screaming for Lou to retire.

 

[doublechili]

Pageau and Palmeiri are going to cost assets (we can't afford to give up) to move...

IDK - I just don't see that. If I had to guess I'd say that they both have positive value. Worst case, I'd think that they could be moved for a player with a similar contract who fills a hole.

 

[JKP]

So how likely are Dubas rumors of him coming to the Islanders?
It sure would come full circle for those of you screaming for Lou to retire.

I don't think there are any rumours, just loose speculation.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

So how likely are Dubas rumors of him coming to the Islanders?
It sure would come full circle for those of you screaming for Lou to retire.

People are just putting 2 + 2 together.

They were part of the same organization for several years and then the younger replaced the older when the older took over another gig with more autonomy.

Now the younger is out of a job while the older still appears to be in full autonomy, both as a GM and president of hockey operations.

We have absolutely no indication that Lou would be considering laying down the septor as the team's GM, for example.

So, it's just thoughts.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

The record under Trotz was the best since Arbour was here so I'll go with that.

We're now in the "Lou is on his own" GM tenure and it sure falls short of the results of when Trotz was coaching a roster consisting of roughly 80% snow's players.

It's been one season. And they made the playoffs. I guess any coach that doesn't win at least one playoff round should be fired.

 

[Seph]

The record under Trotz was the best since Arbour was here so I'll go with that.

We're now in the "Lou is on his own" GM tenure and it sure falls short of the results of when Trotz was coaching a roster consisting of roughly 80% snow's players.

Trotz had a .587 pt% with the Isles in the regular season. That would have been good for 3 more points and the same seed this year compared to Lambert's .567. I miss Trotz too, but let's not act like Trotz' regular season record was this godlike thing.

 

[danteipp]

If your goal is to win a cup, stay miles away from Dubas…

Come on that isn't fair, he delivered a Calder Cup (AHL) to the wonderful fans in Toronto in 2018!

 

[MJF]

It's been one season. And they made the playoffs. I guess any coach that doesn't win at least one playoff round should be fired.

Just the ones with expectations attached to them. The rest get participation trophies.

“Hey, good try. But only 1 team wins the Cup each year.”

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Just the ones with expectations attached to them. The rest get participation trophies.

“Hey, good try. But only 1 team wins the Cup each year.”

So 31 coaches should get fired every year?

And I thought the expectations were that this is bad team that will miss the playoffs?

Every coach (other than a couple of teams each year who are in a true rebuild) has playoff expectations.

 

[MJF]

So 31 coaches should get fired every year?

And I thought the expectations were that this is bad team that will miss the playoffs?

Every coach (other than a couple of teams each year who are in a true rebuild) has playoff expectations.

So no coach who makes the playoffs should get fired?

 

[Doshell Propivo]

So no coach who makes the playoffs should get fired?

Not many do. Especially first year coaches.

 

[JKP]

People are just putting 2 + 2 together.

They were part of the same organization for several years and then the younger replaced the older when the older took over another gig with more autonomy.

Now the younger is out of a job while the older still appears to be in full autonomy, both as a GM and president of hockey operations.

We have absolutely no indication that Lou would be considering laying down the septor as the team's GM, for example.

So, it's just thoughts.

Lou was moved upstairs so they could keep Dubas, who was getting interest outside the building. It was a powerless role, which is why he left and came to the Isles.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Lou was moved upstairs so they could keep Dubas, who was getting interest outside the building. It was a powerless role, which is why he left and came to the Isles.

I don't see Lou accepting a figurehead role with NYI. Another organization perhaps.

So no coach who makes the playoffs should get fired?

Just curious, do you want Lambert gone?

 

[MJF]

I don't see Lou accepting a figurehead role with NYI. Another organization perhaps.


Just curious, do you want Lambert gone?

I never wanted Lambert here in the first place. That being said, I credit him for recognizing that he had to change his game plan to a defense oriented system back in January. The team made the playoffs by the skin of their terth. However his 3rd period in Game 6, where he basically couldn’t get his players to get off their heels and back on their toes, was a coaching FAIL. I watched him on the bench that period. He was lost. Stopped talking, was stoic instead of animated, whereas Houda and MacLean were doing all the gesturing. Not recognizing he needed to take a time out to try and stem the bleeding? He lost his game awareness. That can never happen to a coach.

So the answer to your question is yes, I’d fire Lambert for somebody battle tested. The Isles are a veteran roster built to win now (according to others). You don’t give a rookie coach the keys, and I’m not interested in waiting for him to learn on the job.

So 31 coaches should get fired every year?

And I thought the expectations were that this is bad team that will miss the playoffs?

Every coach (other than a couple of teams each year who are in a true rebuild) has playoff expectations.

Why do you go to the either/or scenario to make your point?

 

[LeapOnOver]

I'm in agreement that Trotz was great and I love his defense first style and prefer him to Lambert, but I think you're being a bit too dismissive of what Lamoriello did.

The roster was largely the same year in and year out but there were key pieces and adjustments Lamoriello made along the way to try and get the team to win.

2018-19 had Filpulla and Lehner as key contributors for the team.
2019-20 Lamoriello moved on from the Vezina nominated Lehner for Varlamov. Brought in Brassard to replace Filpulla, and most importantly brought in Pageau to stabilize the third line when Brassard was more suited for the top 6. Green was brought in to stabilize the defense.
2020-21 Greiss was let go and replaced with Sorokin, who only came over because Lamoriello was here/Snow was gone. Palmieri and Zajac were added to provide more scoring and depth up front for the run.
2021-22 Not much roster change at all in a miserable year. Eberle was lost to the expansion draft. Chara brought in along with Parise. One of them worked out much better than the other.
2022-23 Romanov brought in to help stabilize the defense and get younger. Horvat was brought in a bit before the deadline for Beauvillier, and Engvall brought in at the deadline.

I think a lot of the criticism is because people quickly forget about a bunch of these moves. We saw how important bringing in the right pieces was in 2021-22 when the team missed the playoffs because they had lost some key contributors/gotten older. Who remembers him walking away from Lehner? That's such a bold and decisive move that gets you fired if it doesn't work out right. Turns out, that was a great call and led the team to have more success. He hasn't been able to land a big fish yet so that deserves criticism, while Horvat is close but not quite what any of us were hoping for.

He hasn't made the biggest of splashes, took some risks, and made some miscalculations along the way but the team has been competitive during his time here, all while rotating out or bringing in pretty significant pieces, dealing with a flat cap, expansion, and whatever COVID nonsense was thrown into the mix. Not infallible, but Trotz shouldn't get all the credit. The first season without Trotz the team made it back to the playoffs while their most talented forward and defenseman missed a ton of time. Was that all Lambert or does Lamoriello deserve some credit?

The Sorokin one is a huge thing he's leaving out...which is par for the course with the cherry picking complaints. Also you can add the winning culture and professionalism he's instilled behind the scenes.

 

[NYI365]

Interesting piece. The analytics cited in the article projects Mayfield's contract at $3x 3.75m and Varlamov to come in at 2x$2.75.