Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[mm11]

Let’s wrap this up…

Panthers smelling blood in the waters down in South Florida. No mercy, get r done

 

[periferal]

Panthers smelling blood in the waters down in South Florida. No mercy, get r done

Matthew Tkachuk.

I cannot remember a player more deserving of the Conn Smythe trophy for what he brought to a team in terms of intangibles than he.

I remember when the trade was done I thought the Panthers overpaid. Now I think they underpaid. These are the types of special players you should be using 1st round picks+ on.

 

[mm11]

Matthew Tkachuk.

I cannot remember a player more deserving of the Conn Smythe trophy for what he brought to a team in terms of intangibles than he.

I remember when the trade was done I thought the Panthers overpaid. Now I think they underpaid. These are the types of special players you should be using 1st round picks+ on.

compete level my brotha. Love seeing it.

 

[mm11]

Matthew Tkachuk.

I cannot remember a player more deserving of the Conn Smythe trophy for what he brought to a team in terms of intangibles than he.

I remember when the trade was done I thought the Panthers overpaid. Now I think they underpaid. These are the types of special players you should be using 1st round picks+ on.

Sean Bennett is an animal too

 

[JKP]

Yeah, it does make one wonder, doesn't it? I posted something similar almost a week ago, and now it's been 10+ days since the season ended and not a peep from the coach or the GM. Gilman and Botterill would be right at the top of the list, and FWIW each of those organizations have a top coaching candidate too (Carbery in TO and Leach in SEA). Of course, maybe TO will tap their own guys? Or maybe they want a new direction and they hire the Lamoriello team.

I think it’s the opposite. If they were gonna blitz him, they’d just do it and announce a search for the new GM.

The longer there is silence speaks to Lou’s MO, not the owners’ MO.

Matthew Tkachuk.

I cannot remember a player more deserving of the Conn Smythe trophy for what he brought to a team in terms of intangibles than he.

I remember when the trade was done I thought the Panthers overpaid. Now I think they underpaid. These are the types of special players you should be using 1st round picks+ on.

Slow down, Hoss, on the deserving of the Conn Smythe talk… we’re not even out of R2 yet. Lots of PO hockey yet to be played. And that Aho kid is making a case as well…

 

[periferal]

I think it’s the opposite. If they were gonna blitz him, they’d just do it and announce a search for the new GM.

The longer there is silence speaks to Lou’s MO, not the owners’ MO.

Are you kidding? Malkin/Ledecky showed more respect to snow by keeping him on board in some state of limbo before they "slid" Lou into the President role like a bunch of ninjas. Lou then appointed himself GM...And 5 years later snow still hasn't been "fired" officially.

If you think Malkin/Ledecky are just going to oust Lou given his past resume and the fact he literally runs every last millimeter of the hockey ops, then not sure what to tell you.

If/when Lou leaves this franchise it's going to be the smoothest/backroom transition with the PR to match.

...And I wouldn't be surprised if Malkin keeps Lou on forever is some sort of a passive "advisory" role.

Because I also think this is Lou's last stop in the NHL. Even if Malkin fired him I don't think there's going to be many other owners who want him taking over his franchise at this point.

Slow down, Hoss, on the deserving of the Conn Smythe talk… we’re not even out of R2 yet. Lots of PO hockey yet to be played. And that Aho kid is making a case as well…

Slow down on the slow down. Of course there's plenty of hockey to play, but more to the point...I'm talking about how valuable Tkachuk has been to the Panthers. Kind of like Trotz was for us.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

We don’t. We have a high quality goaltender. Beyond that we have a 1C who still hasn’t lived up to the hoopla he gets on this board, Horvat who has to figure out his game again, Nelson, who is a legit 2C but our best player, a solid top 4 D, several redundant bottom 6 players, and 2 intriguing prospects who I believe have a real future (Dufour and Bolduc). To me we’re an underwhelming collection of player.

Well if we embark on a tank/rebuild, we'd be doing cartwheels if in 5-10 years the result was drafting players who turned into Barzal, Nelson, Sorokin and Horvat.

Even if Malkin fired him I don't think there's going to be many other owners who want him taking over his franchise at this point.

Of course there would be.

 

[MJF]

Well if we embark on a tank/rebuild, we'd be doing cartwheels if in 5-10 years the result was drafting players who turned into Barzal, Nelson, Sorokin and Horvat.

You might, but after seeing where those guys got us I’d be hoping for better.

 

[seafoam]

Who is a good fit for this team?

A coach who is willing to move on from the Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck fourth line and get creative on special teams.

Not sure who that is, but likely a new-age coach that isn't really on anyone's radar currently.

 

[MJF]

A coach who is willing to move on from the Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck fourth line and get creative on special teams.

Not sure who that is, but likely a new-age coach that isn't really on anyone's radar currently.

We need a GM who is willing to take Martin-Cizikas.-Clutterbuck off the roster.

 

[seafoam]

We need a GM who is willing to take Martin-Cizikas.-Clutterbuck off the roster.

You’re not going to hear an argument for me…

 

[The Real JT]

We need a GM who is willing to take Martin-Cizikas.-Clutterbuck off the roster.

I would assume you agree that Cizikas is still an asset albeit a declining one.

I’d be ok with moving him for a pick or prospect though I’d prefer moving JGP assuming a center is moved. They both can still play but the likelihood that either of them might have a resurgence is far higher with Cizikas. I say that primarily because he’s been saddled with linemates that can’t keep up anymore. Some new blood might very well help his performance.

 

[MJF]

I would assume you agree that Cizikas is still an asset albeit a declining one.

I’d be ok with moving him for a pick or prospect though I’d prefer moving JGP assuming a center is moved. They both can still play but the likelihood that either of them might have a resurgence is far higher with Cizikas. I say that primarily because he’s been saddled with linemates that can’t keep up anymore. Some new blood might very well help his performance.

That’s the only case I could make in Cizikas’ favor. Otherwise there’s nothing that makes me want to keep him.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Matthew Tkachuk.

I cannot remember a player more deserving of the Conn Smythe trophy for what he brought to a team in terms of intangibles than he.

I remember when the trade was done I thought the Panthers overpaid. Now I think they underpaid. These are the types of special players you should be using 1st round picks+ on.

Hold up. You didn't think he was special after scoring 104 points last year? Also a 1st round pick was not included in the deal. It was Huberdeau and Weagar. A 115 point forward and a solid second pairing guy is actually what it took to land Tkachuk.

 

[danteipp]

Hold up. You didn't think he was special after scoring 104 points last year? Also a 1st round pick was not included in the deal. It was Huberdeau and Weagar. A 115 point forward and a solid second pairing guy is actually what it took to land Tkachuk.

Just to confirm, the Flames also received forward prospect Cole Schwindt and a conditional first-round pick in the 2025 NHL Draft. However, like you said, clearly the top-2 pieces were Huberdreau and Weegar.

That is a big package of assets to expend, but it made sense for Florida because they got the best player in the deal, got younger and didn't have to give Super Softie Huberdeau that albatross of a contract.

It is looking like Huberdreau was part of the problem in Florida. But I did not like Calgary giving out that contract at the time, and it looks even worse now.

Of course Weegar is exactly what the Isles need on defense in terms of skill, just not at eight years and $6.25 million AAV.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Just to confirm, the Flames also received forward prospect Cole Schwindt and a conditional first-round pick in the 2025 NHL Draft. However, like you said, clearly the top-2 pieces were Huberdreau and Weegar.

That is a big package of assets to expend, but it made sense for Florida because they got the best player in the deal, got younger and didn't have to give Super Softie Huberdeau that albatross of a contract.

It is looking like Huberdreau was part of the problem in Florida. But I did not like Calgary giving out that contract at the time, and it looks even worse now.

Of course Weegar is exactly what the Isles need on defense in terms of skill, just not at eight years and $6.25 million AAV.

Didn't realize there was a 1st involved. Thanks for correcting me. The overall point still stands that the 1st was nowhere near the most valuable piece in that deal.

 

[The Real JT]

I find myself smiling at the subtitle of this thread “Eyes Toward The Draft”

My eyes will be watching the other teams in the league selecting prospects in a stacked draft while we make microwave popcorn

We arguably now lay claim to the weakest prospect pool in the league and I suspect we may be the last team in the league to select their first player in the upcoming draft. (That comment may need to be fact checked but it’s not far off in any event.)

Boy I hope Dufour and Maggio live up to their promise.

 

[danteipp]

Didn't realize there was a 1st involved. Thanks for correcting me. The overall point still stands that the 1st was nowhere near the most valuable piece in that deal.

Totally agree, the first rounder was essentially probably the third-most important piece of that trade. Calgary definitely returned quantity, but probably should have looked for younger pieces and more futures, so they could have gotten younger and NOT locked themselves into players like Huberdreau, Kadri, etc. They are a mess.

 

[periferal]

Hold up. You didn't think he was special after scoring 104 points last year? Also a 1st round pick was not included in the deal. It was Huberdeau and Weagar. A 115 point forward and a solid second pairing guy is actually what it took to land Tkachuk.

Relax Kimosabe.

Tkachuk was always special, but I didn't think he could single-handedly put the entire listless Panthers franchise on his back and lift their annually lackluster asses into a legit Cup contender.

And you say Tkachuk was coming off a 104 point season...? Huberdeau was coming off a 115 point season.

And the Flames got a 1st round pick. It's either going to be in 25 or 26 (if it's a lottery pick in 25).


And now ask yourself this...

Would you rather have Tkachuk at 9.5M a year....Or Horvat at 8.5M?

 

[LeapOnOver]

I would be very surprised if Lambert is let go, I do see a new assistant to replace McLean.

Fixing the power play:

There's two facets to this that are killing it; how we enter the zone and a lack of player movement when in possession. Both of these are linked to how we utilize Barzal on the PP.

I've said it many times before; we rely on Mat to enter the zone with possession and too often the other team lines up at the blueline and Mat passes to the stationary forward on the boards and the PKers are jumping on that person. I'd rather we have another player carry up and time it so there's a deep dump in with Barzal speeding to retrieve it. Once that happens a number of times, you get the PKers to start to shade and that opens up the player on the boards to have time to carry it in more. We've been far too predictable on entries.

The second part is how stationary we are and constantly forcing seam passes because we don't have players interchanging positions. All of you know my lacrosse background and I can't understand why the Isles don't incorporate some Man-up lacrosse approaches in the toolkit.

Wheeling the perimeter quickly to get the defense having to communicate and shift is one thing. And most importantly, sending cutters through the middle to open up the skip passes. A stationary PP is the EASIEST thing to defend and I can't understand why they keep doing it. If Barzal is hanging out on the wing with the puck, it makes the movement even more important.

Crashing the net when he is not out there seems to work more than anything else we've done too.

Feel like this isn't going to work. Barzal is pretty shit at winning board battles. He never knows when to play the body, and most of the time chooses not to engage physically making it even more difficult to win the puck. I think you hit the nail on the head though where they need more than one puck carrier and need to keep the PK guessing. They have zero creativity in every single facet of the PP. It's humiliating to watch.

Let’s wrap this up…

Curtis Joseph?

 

[SI]

Relax Kimosabe.

Tkachuk was always special, but I didn't think he could single-handedly put the entire listless Panthers franchise on his back and lift their annually lackluster asses into a legit Cup contender.

And you say Tkachuk was coming off a 104 point season...? Huberdeau was coming off a 115 point season.

And the Flames got a 1st round pick. It's either going to be in 25 or 26 (if it's a lottery pick in 25).


And now ask yourself this...

Would you rather have Tkachuk at 9.5M a year....Or Horvat at 8.5M?

They didn't have the f***ing pieces to land Tkachuk! and Tkachuk wanted to go to Florida!

 

[YearlyLottery]

Relax Kimosabe.

Tkachuk was always special, but I didn't think he could single-handedly put the entire listless Panthers franchise on his back and lift their annually lackluster asses into a legit Cup contender.

And you say Tkachuk was coming off a 104 point season...? Huberdeau was coming off a 115 point season.

And the Flames got a 1st round pick. It's either going to be in 25 or 26 (if it's a lottery pick in 25).


And now ask yourself this...

Would you rather have Tkachuk at 9.5M a year....Or Horvat at 8.5M?

This conversation is a waste of time. The Islanders did not have a 115 point asset to offer in a deal last season.

 

[seafoam]

Long Island wasn’t even on Tkachuk’s short list. It wasn’t a matter of not putting the pieces on the table…

 

[JPIsles18]

Definitely.


It is. But not every team went through what the Islanders did the last 20 years or so. And we know that that the team has problems at the gate, especially when the team sucks. Years of missing the playoffs would = 5,000 fans in the stands during the week.

Embarking on another rebuild at this point would be very bad optics.

Every franchise has this discussion regarding rebuilding. It's all nonsense. If you have to rebuild, you rebuild. There are teams that cannot avoid it: Philly is one. The only thing worse than rebuilding is being mediocre with aging forwards that are not exciting to watch. Isles brand of hockey is only watchable if they are winning. When this team loses, with the way they play, it is unwatchable. The reason is lack of high end talent.

It usually takes franchises too long to decide to rebuild. Isles aren't there yet, but they have to get younger and cheaper at certain positions. The team is stale. The team has very little offensive swagger and the defensive game has eroded. You simply cannot rebuild with an elite goaltender either.

The best way for the Isles to inject some much needed skill into the lineup immediately is by trading Sorokin (probably). The UFA market stinks this year. I'm not sure what the trade market holds. The Isles can retool by discarding many of the high priced aging players on the roster (Pageau, the entire 4th line, maybe Palmieri). The other players are simply not tradable because of the term.

Making decisions to keep fans in the seats never works out: see Vancouver, Philly, etc. Most fans are ok with a rebuild if done correctly. The Isles don't need one yet. But they need to start understanding that the league is getting younger, more skilled, and faster. If they don't adjust, the rebuild will be forced upon them. Worst thing a team can be is old, slow, boring, and not winning. Right now the Isles are a borderline playoff team. A purgatory of sorts. Something has to give.

 

[JPIsles18]

This conversation is a waste of time. The Islanders did not have a 115 point asset to offer in a deal last season.

Agreed. Which is an indictment on Lou. This is a borderline playoff team with no assets to land a player like this. All this talk about "choosing" to rebuild is also a waste of time. We are dangerously close to being forced into one. Not many teams have no impact players coming through the pike. Scary. You cannot win in this league without ELC talent producing.