Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[PK Cronin]

Well of course this, but....

1. They basically have no one to trade (without adding assets).
2. Lou only knows how to go all in, so he won't deal a roster player unless the cap/expansion draft forces him to.

Basically the same team is coming back next season because Lou has created a situation where there are almost no options.

This is repeated as fact over and over again. You've already come to your conclusions before seeing things play out. I'm a wait and see, not a judge beforehand type...so, we'll see.

 

[SI]

Barzal?

Right - all 3 C are more offensive minded -

Pageau and Wahlstrom to Canucks for Mikheyev and Podkolzin ?


Hell add Bailey for Garland too.

 

[duster19]

Was hoping Lou would be gone by now.

 

[seafoam]

I mean I cannot kill him for Toews. COVID made many cap situations brutal around the league. What else was supposed to be done at that time regarding Toews? Getting rid of Leddy was not an option that offseason. Nobody wanted him. That is how bad the cap situation was around the league.

Dangling Eberle at the expansion draft was the right move. I do not think Bailey would have been taken and the Islanders needed the cap space.

The Islanders paid a fair price for Horvat. Raty is the same player who had 2 goals in 15 NHL games this season. He lacks elite skating ability (which is what everyone is raving about where the Islanders should be going). He traded a mid first round pick and Beauvillier. That is a fair price for a 70 point two way center.

why was dangling Eberle at the expansion draft the right move? He was Barzal’s running mate and is still effective.

Barzal (and thus the Islanders), have had a bottom 10 offense since Eberle left.

 

[PK Cronin]

why was dangling Eberle at the expansion draft the right move? He was Barzal’s running mate and is still effective.

Barzal (and thus the Islanders), have had a bottom 10 offense since Eberle left.

They had to clear cap space.

 

[12Dog]

And now what? Reassess and decide who stays and who goes. Same as always.

Question is how to obtain higher level talent? Hard to/impossible to move contracts? Limited draft capital, sorry prospect base, how does this team move on, short of a ride out the bad contacts, rebuild?
We are Vancouver east
Pitt, Wash looking done
Devils clearly on the rise
Barring a new, updated, visionary GM
We are deeply entrenched in the mediocrity cycle

 

[SI]

I do think Pageau is the exact type of player Vancouver wants. Allvin and Tocchet both said 3C is priority - preferably a RH C who can help the worst PK in the league.


Pageau and Wahlstrom
For Mikheyev and Podkolzin

Pageau and Wahlstrom
for Boeser and Podkolzin

Pageau for Boeser ?
Pageau for Mihkeyev?

Boeser is the sniper but Mikheyev adds the speed and size the Isles would want- Mihkeyev would be my choice.

Another deal
Mihkeyev (3x4.75) and Garland (3/4.95)
For Pageau (3x5) and Bailey (1/5)

 

[BelovedIsles]

Success is not linear.

The Blues won the Cup after missing the playoffs and having seven straight years of being eliminated with only one year making it to the Conference Finals.

In 2011 Tampa Bay lost in the Conference Finals. They missed the playoffs the following two years. Eliminated round one. Lost in the Cup Finals. Lost in the Conference Finals. Proceeded to miss the playoffs. Then they lost in the Conference Finals and the first round. After that they won the Cup back to back years.

Colorado lost in the second round for three straight years before winning it all.

My point here is that getting to the dance consistently is what is best for this team with Sorokin, Barzal, Horvat, Pulock, Pelech, etc all here long term. They will need to make sure their young forwards actually make impacts at the NHL level though. In order for that to happen they need to get an actual chance.

Sure, but you are comparing NYI to teams with far superior talent. The Bolts and Avs were just on the cusp of greatness, with a bevy of in-prime talent. Currently the core is mediocre, with little upside. Perhaps Barzal can take the next step, but he's the only candidate (outside of Dobson) that I see who can develop his game. Even if both Barzal and Dobson emerge to another tier, the core is still stuck in that murky mediocrity.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Anybody else no longer thrilled to hear "this is a special group"? I was surprised to hear it yet again and it's worn thin on me. Unless they are talking about the PP and taking the short bus to school, it just comes off as egotistical at this point. Fans don't need to hear that nonsense again. Show it on the ice. We aren't seeing anything special these days.

 

[The Real JT]

I disagree about Palmieri. He was one of the most consistent forwards on the team in the playoffs. In the right deal, if there's a worthwhile return, then sure. But not looking to dump him. The others - okay.

You don’t want to dump Palmieri. I agree he’s not worth “dumping”. I’d still still flip him for a meh asset return.

In the last 3 seasons while he’s admittedly missed some games, he’s only scored 10, 15 and 16 goals and he’s not getting any younger.

The players you value and want to keep are exactly the players other teams would consider trading for.

 

[Lek]

We have weaved quite the tangled web.

I think we should make it known we are listening on offers for everyone......and we definitely should be listening, not offering.

 

[seafoam]

They had to clear cap space.

To re-sign Palmieri, which they didn’t have to do.

 

[NC 1972]

I agree too. And painful as it is it may be that next year is the year to accept falling back while doing a retool, getting rid of some contracts and maybe keeping some draft picks for once.

Rambiling thoughts over my coffee and playoff hangover:

-Buy out Bailey if he doesn't retire, damn the cap hit. Minnesota did same thing with Zack and Suter, swallowed hard and the world didn't end.
-Going to be impossible to move Lee unless a lot of Salary is retained. Can't see present regime doing it but perhaps regime change is coming? God I hope so. Lou's contract is up. I think Lee can still be a useful player on a talented offensive team that could use some size in front of the net on PPs. Eat half the contract to get rid of it.
-I think Pelich is hurt. But he's looked awful since the Concussion.
- Varlomov- How do you pay a guy 5M to start a little over 20 games? Ugg.
-I hope Engval is resigned just for ranginess, skill and speed alone. I'd keep Fasching too on the right deal. Big body. Decent skater. Goes to right places. With a little luck could have had a few goals this series.
-I hope MM retires, and Clutter is LTIRed.
-JPG looks worn out. Casey has more jump.
-Crossing my fingers that Horvat doesn't sleep walk through next 8 years, but we've no choice but to give him a chance. What alarmed me besides not scoring was how many face offs he lost during this series after being very good most of the time I saw him.
-Barzal has a lot of faults but he's not the problem IMO. Teams look to add players like this, not get rid of them. We are so outclassed in the skill department.
-Mayfield- Let him walk unless he loves LI so much he signs a below market deal which is unlikely.

Winnepeg and Calgary look to be blown up. Maybe some deals can be made to move people and acquire some talent.

Take your lumps next year to try and turn this thing around. Ottawa, Buffalo probably make Playoffs and we don't anyway. And to realistically do that we need regime change in the GM position.

PS- I'd love to be the Franchise that"rehabilitates" Joel Quennville

Wow, Joel Quennvile! In this environment it will never happen. The last thing this ownership wants is a public relations nightmare.

 

[Olliemets]

why was dangling Eberle at the expansion draft the right move? He was Barzal’s running mate and is still effective.

Barzal (and thus the Islanders), have had a bottom 10 offense since Eberle left.

This!! People got all over Eberle for being "soft". He is what he is but he brought some playmaking, skating and ability to score and carry the puck up ice.

He's an effective player and losing him, Leddy and Toews after 2019 really hampered the zone entries.

 

[PK Cronin]

To re-sign Palmieri, which they didn’t have to do.

If the argument is Palmieri vs Eberle, we saw the Eberle experiment not work for too long. He always went cold the later playoffs went. Palmieri had a very nice playoff after being acquired, he's more physical, plays more of a grinding style, and that's the direction the team wanted to go.

The difference between having Eberle or Palmieri, for me, is negligible. It's a shame Palmieri keeps getting hurt but I don't miss Eberle at all. He wasn't the solution to the team's problems because they wouldn't have brought in Palmieri if he was. Viewing keeping Palmieri over Eberle as some catastrophic mistake is just fans not remembering accurately what Eberle was for the Islander (similarly to how fans view Toews).

 

[NC 1972]

'

I think those that play or have played hockey understand how hard it is to play with a player like Barzal. Don’t get me wrong, the guy has a huge arsenal of skill but I almost believe that he feels he needs to hold the puck 90% of his shift for him to feel it was productive and that can drive players crazy trying to get somewhere so he can dish it off only to find when you get there he’s circling back for another look. We need to remember this team made the playoffs without him just showing you that he’s more show than go. I think if we can find the right package, it should be looked at and we need to find another home for Lee as I see some teams needing a player like him

I completely agree with the Barzal comment and have stated so in the past. I have played with such a player in the past. The amount of frustration his wingers must have? Most players have been taught, headmaning the puck. Jumping in and out of open ice, give and go. With Barzal that isn’t the case, wingers slamming on the brakes at the blue line all too often. This can be fixed with the proper talent hopefully. But looking around the league I see other centers of his size and smaller that find their way to the net, he needs to learn how to do that.

 

[Top Corner]

If the argument is Palmieri vs Eberle, we saw the Eberle experiment not work for too long. He always went cold the later playoffs went. Palmieri had a very nice playoff after being acquired, he's more physical, plays more of a grinding style, and that's the direction the team wanted to go.

The difference between having Eberle or Palmieri, for me, is negligible. It's a shame Palmieri keeps getting hurt but I don't miss Eberle at all. He wasn't the solution to the team's problems because they wouldn't have brought in Palmieri if he was. Viewing keeping Palmieri over Eberle as some catastrophic mistake is just fans not remembering accurately what Eberle was for the Islander (similarly to how fans view Toews).

I guess it all depends if Eberle made your best player better (Barzal), if he didn’t then yes what you say is true

 

[MJF]

You don’t want to dump Palmieri. I agree he’s not worth “dumping”. I’d still still flip him for a meh asset return.

In the last 3 seasons while he’s admittedly missed some games, he’s only scored 10, 15 and 16 goals and he’s not getting any younger.

The players you value and want to keep are exactly the players other teams would consider trading for.

Palmieri, as well as Anders Lee, would not be at the top of my "must trade list." I think we finally saw what a healthy Palmieri is capable of. A guy who can power his way to the net and pop in around 25 goals a year. And while Anders Lee had trouble keeping up with the pace of play against the Hurricanes, I still pencil him in for 25-30 goals next season. However, if the return for either one of them is good and there is no salary retention or sweeteners added on our part, I would be open to trading either one of them tomorrow.

I think Lee and Palms are both still capable of contributing enough here next season and that their contracts won't be seen as anchors, and that the salary cap will have risen enough in 2 years to make it easier to trade them.

If the argument is Palmieri vs Eberle, we saw the Eberle experiment not work for too long. He always went cold the later playoffs went. Palmieri had a very nice playoff after being acquired, he's more physical, plays more of a grinding style, and that's the direction the team wanted to go.

The difference between having Eberle or Palmieri, for me, is negligible. It's a shame Palmieri keeps getting hurt but I don't miss Eberle at all. He wasn't the solution to the team's problems because they wouldn't have brought in Palmieri if he was. Viewing keeping Palmieri over Eberle as some catastrophic mistake is just fans not remembering accurately what Eberle was for the Islander (similarly to how fans view Toews).

People only see the goals when it comes to Jordan Eberle. They conveniently omit the long cold streaks he went through every year when he was an Islander.

 

[PK Cronin]

I completely agree with the Barzal comment and have stated so in the past. I have played with such a player in the past. The amount of frustration his wingers must have? Most players have been taught, headmaning the puck. Jumping in and out of open ice, give and go. With Barzal that isn’t the case, wingers slamming on the brakes at the blue line all too often. This can be fixed with the proper talent hopefully. But looking around the league I see other centers of his size and smaller that find their way to the net, he needs to learn how to do that.

Jack Hughes is similar to Barzal but is always looking to use his ability to get to the net or to a scoring area. Barzal is always using his ability to get other people the puck, and that's always been his problem. He needs to be more selfish to be more effective, for him and his line mates.

I guess it all depends if Eberle made your best player better (Barzal), if he didn’t then yes what you say is true

I don't think he did. Barzal is the same player, with the same production.

 

[seafoam]

If the argument is Palmieri vs Eberle, we saw the Eberle experiment not work for too long. He always went cold the later playoffs went. Palmieri had a very nice playoff after being acquired, he's more physical, plays more of a grinding style, and that's the direction the team wanted to go.

The difference between having Eberle or Palmieri, for me, is negligible. It's a shame Palmieri keeps getting hurt but I don't miss Eberle at all. He wasn't the solution to the team's problems because they wouldn't have brought in Palmieri if he was. Viewing keeping Palmieri over Eberle as some catastrophic mistake is just fans not remembering accurately what Eberle was for the Islander (similarly to how fans view Toews).

Like I said in my original post, I genuinely believe you are rationalizing Lamoriello losing Eberle and Toews.

The whole point of acquiring Palmieri was to add scoring depth behind the Barzal-Eberle duo, which statistically performed on par with the regular season numbers in the playoffs.

Instead, Lamoreillo replaced Eberle with Palmieri and the Islanders were back to went right back to where they were before acquiring Palmieri, being a top six RW short.

I've been fine with the Romanov trade, but Lamoriello still never replaced losing two above average puck carrying defenseman and the team has suffered because of it.

 

[YearlyLottery]

If the argument is Palmieri vs Eberle, we saw the Eberle experiment not work for too long. He always went cold the later playoffs went. Palmieri had a very nice playoff after being acquired, he's more physical, plays more of a grinding style, and that's the direction the team wanted to go.

The difference between having Eberle or Palmieri, for me, is negligible. It's a shame Palmieri keeps getting hurt but I don't miss Eberle at all. He wasn't the solution to the team's problems because they wouldn't have brought in Palmieri if he was. Viewing keeping Palmieri over Eberle as some catastrophic mistake is just fans not remembering accurately what Eberle was for the Islander (similarly to how fans view Toews).

We all need to take a second to realize Palmieri just scored 5 points in 6 games these playoffs.

Lou this is the perfect time to trade him, recoup assets, and build cap space for more impact players.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

I think off-season priorities are buying out Bailey, letting all the UFA walk except maybe Fasching at no more than 1 million a year so you could bury contract if needed and he was flash in pan. I’d explore shaking core up if you can, trading Nelson if you can get a first round pick this year or next. Its not ideal but center is strength and Nelson and his six million cap hit is a tradable asset and isn’t going to be better than he is right now. See if you can use Wahlstrom and Bolduc to get a winger like Ehlers and roll dice that a year or two from now Odelius or George will be just as good as Bolduc. Explore the free agent market for another winger with speed. They will need a right shot D for third pair with Aho also for next year as well. There will be plenty of goalies to take shot on to backup Sorokin so not worried about that.

Like I said in my original post, I genuinely believe you are rationalizing Lamoriello losing Eberle and Toews.

The whole point of acquiring Palmieri was to add scoring depth behind the Barzal-Eberle duo, which statistically performed on par with the regular season numbers in the playoffs.

Instead, Lamoreillo replaced Eberle with Palmieri and the Islanders were back to went right back to where they were before acquiring Palmieri, being a top six RW short.

I've been fine with the Romanov trade, but Lamoriello still never replaced losing two above average puck carrying defenseman and the team has suffered because of it.

Dobson was supposed to replace the Toews and Leddy skill set and he hasn’t for most part. I think that’s really bigger issue, if Dobson had progressed this year nobody would be worried about Toews or Leddy.

 

[PK Cronin]

Like I said in my original post, I genuinely believe you are rationalizing Lamoriello losing Eberle and Toews.

The whole point of acquiring Palmieri was to add scoring depth behind the Barzal-Eberle duo, which statistically performed on par with the regular season numbers in the playoffs.

Instead, Lamoreillo replaced Eberle with Palmieri and the Islanders were back to went right back to where they were before acquiring Palmieri, being a top six RW short.

I've been fine with the Romanov trade, but Lamoriello still never replaced losing two above average puck carrying defenseman and the team has suffered because of it.

Actually, I think what he did was rational and I have yet to see anyone provide a convincing argument against it.

I'm in agreement that Palmieri was brought in to add depth for the roster. I don't think anyone would dispute that. Lamoriello was loading up for the playoffs at that time, he also grabbed Zajac in the deal. The part your missing is that after the season was over and the Islanders failed to win the cup Lamoriello was faced with the decision to either keep Barzal and Eberle, letting Palmieri walk or keep Barzal and Palmieri and exposing Eberle in the expansion draft. In either situation the team was going to be losing the same depth, a top six forward.

Considering the Islanders failed to get to the finals four years with Eberle, and he continually played worse the deeper the playoffs got, it's reasonable to want to try Palmieri instead of going with the same roster that failed to produce year after year.

There is an argument for having kept Eberle, chemistry and consistency with the lineup, but keeping Palmieri is just as valid.

That's not rationalizing, that's just logical.


As for the Toews thing, I never said Lamoriello has done a good job replacing Toews. In fact, I've said the opposite. I just think he was forced to trade Toews because of the cap and there weren't (m)any alternatives that would've been palatable. He made the best deal he could out of a shit situation that nobody could've predicted was coming.

We all need to take a second to realize Palmieri just scored 5 points in 6 games these playoffs.

Lou this is the perfect time to trade him, recoup assets, and build cap space for more impact players.

I wouldn't hate if he were able to do that.

 

[The Real JT]

We all need to take a second to realize Palmieri just scored 5 points in 6 games these playoffs.

Lou this is the perfect time to trade him, recoup assets, and build cap space for more impact players.

I’m going to assume your bolded comment wasn’t sarcasm. I agree with it.

Palmieri is an asset but a flawed one for sure. He’s scored no more than 16 goals in each of the last 3 seasons.

He was on the short list of Isles players who stepped up this offseason. He deserves credit for that and we shouldn’t feel the need to give him away.

Now that I’ve gotten that thought out of the way, I’d sell high on him this offseason for the right price.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I’m going to assume your bolded comment wasn’t sarcasm. I agree with it.

Palmieri is an asset but a flawed one for sure. He’s scored no more than 16 goals in each of the last 3 seasons.

He was on the short list of Isles players who stepped up this offseason. He deserves credit for that and we shouldn’t feel the need to give him away.

Now that I’ve gotten that thought out of the way, I’d sell high on him this offseason for the right price.

Nope it is absolutely not sarcasm. This may be the last chance to move on from him.