Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[dlawong]

So let me figure this out. Bo scored a lot of goals with the Canucks on the PP this year, but not so with Isles, so it is not him, but who he played with. There is no Pettersson, Miller, and Hughes on this team.

No goal scorer? Nelson won the most accurate shooting contest at the All-star game and he can definitely hit corners so why not on PP? Perhaps is the passers that cannot feed those accurate quick passes over sticks. I fully expect Dobson to work really hard this summer and get his offensive game back next year. The passers and puck carrier has to be smarter. Bo has to be in the bumper spot and Nelson at the top circle. Barzal has to stop dragging the puck so much and keep his feet moving, so he does not get checked off the puck from behind. He also has to look where he is passing to avoid making blind passes. Whoever plays point with Dobson has to be better at moving the puck. Any idea who should be there? If you figure this out, PP will be better.

Barzal will be key at PP only because his speed to get into the zone is important. However, Once he gets in there, he needs to keep moving instead of standing around. He was really good at that in his first year but somehow he stopped doing it. I wonder why?

Lee needs to train hard this summer to get back into top shape. He was stronger and quicker before his injury. Age should never be a detriment. He is young enough to stay in top shape. Those little things do matter.

Also, the best shots at the net from the blue line are to form a straight line and try to find open space. Quick shots with some zing should do it. If you shoot from an angle at the point, it is more effective to fake a shot and passes to someone down low to score.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Dumb? Will Ottawa and Buffalo be there next year? I don’t know I heard a lot of talk that they wound make the playoffs this season, and they did not. I also heard Pittsburgh and Washington would definitely be in, they seem to be missing as well.

Though I’m not happy with the results, give me a playoff team every season. Just need to get in and you never know. Then again there are really only 12 good draft picks who could be good in five years to pick from. So maybe a never ending rebuild could be the way.

This Isles team is clearly flawed, but what team isn’t? Figure the power play out and who knows. In my opinion playoff game disappointments sure beat talking about the draft.

What you just described were the 2003-2007 Islanders teams. Teams that barely made the playoffs and got kicked out in 5 games. Before they inevitably had to rebuild because the NHL team wasn't any good and there was no farm system.

Sound familiar? Yeah?

You really happy about those one wins against the Sabres, Lightning and Senators in the mid-2000s? Well, good for you, I guess. But I couldn't care less about them and I'd rather just start the rebuild instead of doing a repeat of those years.

 

[Osakahaus]

Bang!!!!!

I’m joking but really? The best goalie the isles have had since Billy Smith? No way, an elite talent, a good GM finds a way. Isles would never get equal value back.

If there is anything Lamoriello does best, its goalies. Sorokin would fetch you a game changing haul. They need that.

 

[Osakahaus]

Lee needs to train hard this summer to get back into top shape. He was stronger and quicker before his injury. Age should never be a detriment. He is young enough to stay in top shape. Those little things do matter.

Lee is cooked unfortuantely. We're seeing the effects of the Zacha injury in full effect. He is bailey 2.0. That contract is god awful and we have three more years of it. I really hope you enjoy the eventual buy out

I think its worse knowing that they have never tried Palmieri on PP1, despite all his value being seen as a power play 1 guy. Its absolute malpractice from our staff.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Nope. Outside of his UFA year, there’s nothing ‘elite’ about Horvat as a scorer.

But naturally Bo was acquired to be our "elite" scorer.

Naturally.

Whether he is, can be or how wise the choice of him being the man for that purpose was, does not defer or deter from the fact that this was the chief motivation behind acquiring him.

That is the one thing we most sorely needed - and he was one of the top two options on the market for explicitly that purpose.

And he WAS producing at basically an elite rate at the time he was acquired.

Absolutely no reason any fans should be given the feeling that they were perhaps "wrong" to expect this man to come in here and score at an above-average or even elite rate.

That was the purpose of his acquisition.

***

Our reality is that this team will enter the offseason on a continual search for an elite scorer, particularly one on the wing who pots 30-40 per season.

 

[TeamKidd]

So realistically we have about 7M in cap space and need to resign mayfield, varly and engvall nevermind upgrade the roster. I'm struggling finding a realistic way we even get that done. The 24/25 year will have about 24M in cap space, so i suspect we will give it another go next year with this roster before bigger changes in the 24/25 year.

How do we get Bailey and Clutter off the books? LTIR/Boychuk treatments? Seems to be the only reasonable way to have a bit of scratch for an improvement?

 

[seafoam]

So realistically we have about 7M in cap space and need to resign mayfield, varly and engvall nevermind upgrade the roster. I'm struggling finding a realistic way we even get that done. The 24/25 year will have about 24M in cap space, so i suspect we will give it another go next year with this roster before bigger changes in the 24/25 year.

How do we get Bailey and Clutter off the books? LTIR/Boychuk treatments? Seems to be the only reasonable way to have a bit of scratch for an improvement?

I’m not re-signing any of those guys, the Islanders need to take a step back next year in order to take two steps forward in the future.

Parise-Horvat-Palmieri
Lee-Nelson-Holmstrom
Cizikas-Barzal-Wahlstrom
Durandeau-Pageau-Clutterbuck
Bailey, Martin

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-DobsonP
Aho-Cheap RH UFA

Sorokin
Cheap Backup UFA

Challenge Lambert and Brainiac McLean to get blood out of a stone.

 

[PK Cronin]

So realistically we have about 7M in cap space and need to resign mayfield, varly and engvall nevermind upgrade the roster. I'm struggling finding a realistic way we even get that done. The 24/25 year will have about 24M in cap space, so i suspect we will give it another go next year with this roster before bigger changes in the 24/25 year.

How do we get Bailey and Clutter off the books? LTIR/Boychuk treatments? Seems to be the only reasonable way to have a bit of scratch for an improvement?

If there's one thing I trust Lou to do, it's to get rid of contracts like that. We'll see what happens though.

 

[TeamKidd]

I’m not re-signing any of those guys, the Islanders need to take a step back next year in order to take two steps forward in the future.

Parise-Horvat-Palmieri
Lee-Nelson-Holmstrom
Cizikas-Barzal-Wahlstrom
Durandeau-Pageau-Clutterbuck
Bailey, Martin

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-DobsonP
Aho-Cheap RH UFA

Sorokin
Cheap Backup UFA

Challenge Lambert and Brainiac McLean to get blood out of a stone.

I hear what you are saying, but we all know that is not going to happen. Lou will spend more assets to get rid of some dead weight and hand out long contracts to mayfield and varly imo.

 

[MJF]

Though I’m not happy with the results, give me a playoff team every season. Just need to get in and you never know. Then again there are really only 12 good draft picks who could be good in five years to pick from. So maybe a never ending rebuild could be the way.

That may be good enough for you but it's not for a lot of posters here, myself included. I want my team to be in a great position to challenge for the Cup every year, not this dollar and a dream, hey you never know attitude.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

I’m not re-signing any of those guys, the Islanders need to take a step back next year in order to take two steps forward in the future.

Parise-Horvat-Palmieri
Lee-Nelson-Holmstrom
Cizikas-Barzal-Wahlstrom
Durandeau-Pageau-Clutterbuck
Bailey, Martin

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-DobsonP
Aho-Cheap RH UFA

Sorokin
Cheap Backup UFA

Challenge Lambert and Brainiac McLean to get blood out of a stone.

Am I a complete moron to ask for Doug Weight to come back and run the powerplay?

It can't get any worse.

 

[ekill08x]

If there is anything Lamoriello does best, its goalies. Sorokin would fetch you a game changing haul. They need that.

I agree. This is the only move that could change the trajectory of this franchise right now. Love Sorokin, hes incredible, but we need a lot more skill on this team. The current roster is not good enough and it shows. Fans got fooled with the magic from the Trotz years playing a trap and different system that hid the fact we had little skill. Nobody is fooled anymore. We arent good enough. Also locking up a goalie to a high AAV contract has never worked.

 

[gordie43]

That may be good enough for you but it's not for a lot of posters here, myself included. I want my team to be in a great position to challenge for the Cup every year, not this dollar and a dream, hey you never know attitude.

You could say the same thing with a draft pick. The 12th overall and a dream of making the playoffs someday.

I lived through never ending rebuilds throughout the 90’s and 2000’s. I kinda like this better.

 

[Osakahaus]

So realistically we have about 7M in cap space and need to resign mayfield, varly and engvall nevermind upgrade the roster. I'm struggling finding a realistic way we even get that done. The 24/25 year will have about 24M in cap space, so i suspect we will give it another go next year with this roster before bigger changes in the 24/25 year.

How do we get Bailey and Clutter off the books? LTIR/Boychuk treatments? Seems to be the only reasonable way to have a bit of scratch for an improvement?

By shoving them at teams who think they need more grit/experience

I agree. This is the only move that could change the trajectory of this franchise right now. Love Sorokin, hes incredible, but we need a lot more skill on this team. The current roster is not good enough and it shows. Fans got fooled with the magic from the Trotz years playing a trap and different system that hid the fact we had little skill. Nobody is fooled anymore. We arent good enough. Also locking up a goalie to a high AAV contract has never worked.

Well we also are missing the wealth of defensemen seen by Toews/Leddy/Greene, and the loss of Mayfield soon will amplify that. Our defensive core has deteriorated in three years, and every year since its gotten worse. Forget Trotz, this system needs a lot of help in the department of puck movers.

 

[seafoam]

I agree. This is the only move that could change the trajectory of this franchise right now. Love Sorokin, hes incredible, but we need a lot more skill on this team. The current roster is not good enough and it shows. Fans got fooled with the magic from the Trotz years playing a trap and different system that hid the fact we had little skill. Nobody is fooled anymore. We arent good enough. Also locking up a goalie to a high AAV contract has never worked.

Sorokin for Nylander!

 

[Chokabloc]

I hear what you are saying, but we all know that is not going to happen. Lou will spend more assets to get rid of some dead weight and hand out long contracts to mayfield and varly imo.

As the Toronto faithful said, be careful with Engvall, he'll disappear when/if you reach the playoffs. He did. Varlamov still has cache and could be traded during the July draft session with prospects for value. Pelech and Puloch are locked in. As is Barzal. Everyone else needs to be evaluated. Can't be happy about Lee, Pageau. Clutter, Horvat or Martin. Unlike Engvall, Mayfield's value increases significantly when/if the Isles make the playoffs. Probably don't need him as much during the regular season if there's a viable alternative < $3.8mm out there. But after 4 playoff games hhis stats don't lie. At or near the top in all categories with only 2 PIM. You could package him with prospects and get a 1st if rebuild is the purpose. Let him go this summer or give him a long term contract with less AAV ($3.5 x 7) and make it easier to unload in the latter years. Dobson will give you offensive output as he did the previous season, but he's too soft for the more physical level during the playoffs. That's a trait that probably doesn't change. Dobson is young and could bring more value than Mayfield, Romanov or Aho (who handles the puck well but gets kicked around a lot behind the goal). Bottom line: trade Dobson and bring in a physical puck moving RHD at $3-$3.5mm. Bailey will be gone. We know Fasching can step in with or in place of some in the identity gang.

 

[MJF]

You could say the same thing with a draft pick. The 12th overall and a dream of making the playoffs someday.

I lived through never ending rebuilds throughout the 90’s and 2000’s. I kinda like this better.

This was okay for a while. It’s good when this was a younger, low skilled team. Now we’re still that same low skilled team, just older but with better goaltending. It isn’t going to work in today’s NHL.

As bad as things were in the 90s and 2000s, those weren’t concerted efforts to rebuild. Those happened because first Millstein and Gluckstern, and then Charles Wang both decided to stop spending money on payroll and mandated cuts. Hence the sham rebuilds that were nothing more than get the draft picks on the ice so we can have a low payroll team. Today I feel confident that we have solid enough ownership that we could try to rebuild the right way.

 

[leeroggy]

I wanted Ghostisbehere for that purpose, even though he's not great defensively.

He's good enough defensively for the team that is ready to eliminate us

 

[PK Cronin]

He's good enough defensively for the team that is ready to eliminate us

That's exactly the point.

 

[IslesNorway]

I have no faith in Lou being the guy to right the ship. Time has passed him by in the sense of not seeing and righting the wrongs of the team. Too many, too long deals and not being able to get younger, faster players in. All the Islanders do is play physical but that turns into penalties and losses. At once they are eliminated, the process of transition and retooling should begin.

 

[seafoam]

I’d rather sign Athanasiou to a two year deal in the 7M range than re-sign Engvall to a three to four year deal in the 16M range.

 

[NC 1972]

But naturally Bo was acquired to be our "elite" scorer.

Naturally.

Whether he is, can be or how wise the choice of him being the man for that purpose was, does not defer or deter from the fact that this was the chief motivation behind acquiring him.

That is the one thing we most sorely needed - and he was one of the top two options on the market for explicitly that purpose.

And he WAS producing at basically an elite rate at the time he was acquired.

Absolutely no reason any fans should be given the feeling that they were perhaps "wrong" to expect this man to come in here and score at an above-average or even elite rate.

That was the purpose of his acquisition.

***

Our reality is that this team will enter the offseason on a continual search for an elite scorer, particularly one on the wing who pots 30-40 per season.

As pointed out in an above post by Dalwong the support staff on the Island doesn't come close to what he had in Vancouver .

 

[SCMURRAY]

Zero reason to sign Engvall. Team doesn't need another middle 6 winger chewing up cap space. Bailey will get moved out or bought out worst case. Lou could move Ladd's 2 year contract, he can certainly get it done for 1 year of Bailey.
Bring back Parise and Fasching for low cost contracts. Let Holmstrom/Dufour/Durandeau battle out for another spot.
Waive Johnston and use the 1.1 for someone else

 

[Glory Days]

So let me figure this out. Bo scored a lot of goals with the Canucks on the PP this year, but not so with Isles, so it is not him, but who he played with. There is no Pettersson, Miller, and Hughes on this team.

No goal scorer? Nelson won the most accurate shooting contest at the All-star game and he can definitely hit corners so why not on PP? Perhaps is the passers that cannot feed those accurate quick passes over sticks. I fully expect Dobson to work really hard this summer and get his offensive game back next year. The passers and puck carrier has to be smarter. Bo has to be in the bumper spot and Nelson at the top circle. Barzal has to stop dragging the puck so much and keep his feet moving, so he does not get checked off the puck from behind. He also has to look where he is passing to avoid making blind passes. Whoever plays point with Dobson has to be better at moving the puck. Any idea who should be there? If you figure this out, PP will be better.

Barzal will be key at PP only because his speed to get into the zone is important. However, Once he gets in there, he needs to keep moving instead of standing around. He was really good at that in his first year but somehow he stopped doing it. I wonder why?

Lee needs to train hard this summer to get back into top shape. He was stronger and quicker before his injury. Age should never be a detriment. He is young enough to stay in top shape. Those little things do matter.

Also, the best shots at the net from the blue line are to form a straight line and try to find open space. Quick shots with some zing should do it. If you shoot from an angle at the point, it is more effective to fake a shot and passes to someone down low to score.

Agree on all except Lee. He is a player in decline.

 

[saintunspecified]

My thoughts:
- Parise is about done. This was a great last hurrah for him - I don't see it again. No risk to bring him back, except if one pencils him in for a spot without a viable alternative.

- Buying out Bailey is arguably not worthwhile. You'd save 2.3M off 2023-2024's cap, and incur a 1.15 cost on 2024. Considering UFA class in offseason 2023 is bare, arguably better to bury the contract, and have the extra depth.

- You can't train your way out of the exhaustion that Lee seems to be facing. Injuries + age take a toll. There's no way not to pay.

- It might make more sense to buyout Lee's contract. It would bite in 2025-2026, but that's when Nelson & Palmieri are off the books. It's a big gamble, though.

- Mayfield is a luxury NYI can't afford.

- I have no idea about what Engvall might cost. But I think he's a useful player. He'd be more useful if he could kill penalties. Clutterbuck usefulness on the PK is ending.

- It's going to take time for Wahlstrom get into form next year, even if he's completely rehabbed by camp.

- We need to see some improvement out of Dobson. He's got a nice accurate shot, but he's missing the decisiveness, poise, and confidence to be a PP QB.

Mostly:

- The time for the identity line (it hasn't been that for a while) is over. Time to get young blood flanking Cizikas.