Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Seph]

Not really the point is it? The #13 overall + something decent from the Isles could've landed Fiala. Again I didn't want him, but I would've rather traded for him than Romanov. We could use his Kings-leading 66 points right now (which would lead the Isles), and then I'll bet that the 23rd 1st, Beauvillier, and Raty could've landed a much better D-man than Romanov later.

If the salary cap wasn't a thing, then that would've been a great plan. But unfortunately, because of the cap there wasn't a way for it to be done the way you state. A significant part of the reason for Romanov's value to the team was that he could be re-signed to a low caphit. And that was also a significant part of the reason we were able to accrue capspace to add salary later in the season.

Also worth noting that Horvat has 62 points on the season, so from a point production standpoint, there isn't much difference.

 

[periferal]

Isn't that what you want? Crash and burn, and draft top 5 a few years?

Literally the opposite of what I want. That's why I want Lou/whoever the GM is to stay out in front so there isn't a "crash and burn" in the near future.

I mean what do you think is going to happen if the play of any of Lee, Nelson, Palmieri, Cizikas, Pageau, Mayfield, Pelech, or others falls off in the near future and there's no one in the farm system to replace them and no picks to trade to fill in the hole they will create?

 

[doublechili]

Literally the opposite of what I want. That's why I want Lou/whoever the GM is to stay out in front so there isn't a "crash and burn" in the near future.

I mean what do you think is going to happen if the play of any of Lee, Nelson, Palmieri, Cizikas, Pageau, Mayfield, Pelech, or others falls off in the near future and there's no one in the farm system to replace them and no picks to trade to fill in the hole they will create?

I've always gotten the impression you wanted a tear down and rebuild, not a re-tool (or rehab or renovate or whatever someone wants to call it).

 

[LeapOnOver]

So... Wahlstrom is a better option than Holmstrom and Fasching.

What I gather from Seafoam is he's trying to say that Wahlstrom is in Rob Schrempf (sp?) territory. He's not good enough defensively to play in a 3rd or 4th line role, and has the offensive skills to play top 6. He just hasn't been consistent enough to earn that spot over the guys currently there. Fasching is just a hard working motor that won't do much offensively but can wear down the other team with his relentlessness, and Holmstrom is more defensively sound with a great shot that fits in a 3rd line role with potential to be a top 6 forward. They both have a little bit more value over Wahlstrom just based on their versatility and not being a liability out there when relied up defensively.

Or maybe I just think that's what I would say if I had brought it up like seafoam, lol.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Literally the opposite of what I want. That's why I want Lou/whoever the GM is to stay out in front so there isn't a "crash and burn" in the near future.

I mean what do you think is going to happen if the play of any of Lee, Nelson, Palmieri, Cizikas, Pageau, Mayfield, Pelech, or others falls off in the near future and there's no one in the farm system to replace them and no picks to trade to fill in the hole they will create?

Hasn't stopped the Lightning, Pittsburgh, Boston, Vegas and pretty much all the top teams the last five years. Before you mention their core compared to ours, the normal team is not going to get lucky like Pittsburgh did with their draft picks. Lightning haven't had a draft pick come and help the organization in quite awhile, and Lou obviously believes in this core. So it's fine if you disagree with Lou's opinion on the core, but let's not act like his behavior isn't all that different from these other top teams.

 

[SI]

Not really the point is it? The #13 overall + something decent from the Isles could've landed Fiala. Again I didn't want him, but I would've rather traded for him than Romanov. We could use his Kings-leading 66 points right now (which would lead the Isles), and then I'll bet that the 23rd 1st, Beauvillier, and Raty could've landed a much better D-man than Romanov later.




Funny thing is...Go check out my posts the day snow was fired and Lou replacing him. I promise you there wasn't a happier poster on these boards. I literally think I liked every single post on the "snow gets fired" thread.

Now I've seen Lou's (and Trotz's work) up close and I'm about done with Lou. If you/anyone else would like to keep riding it out that's your prerogative. Go right ahead.

Me - I'd like to see Lou replaced as I ultimately don't think we're reaching the semi-finals again with him as GM (unless he manages to hire another great coach and Sorokin stands on his head in the playoffs). With that said...Doesn't mean I won't love the players on this team to death and cheer for them each game no matter how far they get. I can do that and also like a new GM. Not that hard to do.

But what I won't do is stick my head in the sand and say I've liked Lou's moves over the past few years. I think he's leading this team straight to "averageland" (an aging, vet-laden squad, with many untradable contracts and no farm system). That recipe is basically the worst place to be when you're trying to build a Cup contender - Much less a multi-year contender.





Amen brother. 100% on board with this.

To be fair you didn’t think this roster with Trotz was getting to either of the conference finals a couple of years ago.

It is fair to criticize using the 13 OA pick - mind you in a not so deep draft - to get something a bit more than Romanov. I understood the move at the time and I liked it. I like the player and it does seem like in retrospect that the 13th could have been used more wisely.

However, D was a need and Lou saw an opportunity to improve the blue line immediately with 22 year old and with his mix of grit, speed, and skill he is hoping to cash in on someone. I credit him for that.

My hope is that we see another bold move by Lou this off-season especially if this unit does not get out of the 1st round.

Bold move can be a trade or a free agent signing.

I don’t want to see Bailey play out his final year, Mayfield and Varly re upped and basically the same squad come back again. I want to see a significant move made to better this roster in the off-season

 

[SI]

What I gather from Seafoam is he's trying to say that Wahlstrom is in Rob Schrempf (sp?) territory. He's not good enough defensively to play in a 3rd or 4th line role, and has the offensive skills to play top 6. He just hasn't been consistent enough to earn that spot over the guys currently there. Fasching is just a hard working motor that won't do much offensively but can wear down the other team with his relentlessness, and Holmstrom is more defensively sound with a great shot that fits in a 3rd line role with potential to be a top 6 forward. They both have a little bit more value over Wahlstrom just based on their versatility and not being a liability out there when relied up defensively.

Or maybe I just think that's what I would say if I had brought it up like seafoam, lol.

Wahlstrom has the tools to be a solid top 9 player - he plays physical and is actually good on the boards - he also has the elite release and shot and it is still the most difficult thing to do in this league, which is score a goal.

I would love to see Fasching get rewarded with an NHL contract for next year and he will be good to have around to keep these guys honest. Having Parise, Fasching, Holmstrom, and Wahlstrom all on the roster and coming in at 3.3 m against the cap is a great way to possibly spend heavily on other areas.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

What I gather from Seafoam is he's trying to say that Wahlstrom is in Rob Schrempf (sp?) territory. He's not good enough defensively to play in a 3rd or 4th line role, and has the offensive skills to play top 6.

No, I get that. But, Holmstrom is a nobody, really and Fasching is a straight 13th forward.

 

[IslesNorway]

Holmstrom does very little for me. He's a cultured player for sure, but what is the upside? He just seems like Josh Bailey all over again. Wahlstrom has got a tremendous shot. Some coach will teach him to use it properly and he'll be a 25-30 goal player.

 

[Chardo]

Now, I am still in the boat that Lou should leverage Nelson’s strong play and dangle him at the Draft to land a pick and a top prospect, then use that cap space in free agency to replace Nelson’s production. I know it is not a popular opinion since he has been our best forward but at 32 I think they try to shake things up and get younger.
I’ll throw a hypothetical out there - would folks turn down Minnesota’s 1st, Liam Ohgren, and a 3rd in 2024 for Brock. Then using the capspace for Bertuzzi?

So your plan is to trade away an all star who actually wants to be here, and hope to sign a different star as a free agent, something that has literally never happened before.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Not sure if anybody has brought this up, and I'm not terribly sore about it in case anyone wants to accuse me of being dramatic. I just think there is a bit of unfairness to having the amount of games played being such a large disparity at the time of the trade deadline, and ultimately bad for business. It really left LL with a lot less information than the other bubble teams. I hope they find ways to rectify this in the future.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

At the moment, I would think we're all hoping hard for the Isles to go on a strong run here, because getting a playoff spot that would AVOID Boston and Carolina in Round 1 would be huge at this point.

 

[The Real JT]

No, I get that. But, Holmstrom is a nobody, really and Fasching is a straight 13th forward.

Mostly agree.

The acclaim here for Holmstrom I never got. He still has bottom 6 potential but right now he ain’t much.

 

[doublechili]

Holmstrom is fine. Just don't sign him to a 6 year $30M contract.

 

[MJF]

Mostly agree.

The acclaim here for Holmstrom I never got. He still has bottom 6 potential but right now he ain’t much.

As long as Lou doesn't sign Holmstrom to a Bailey contract there is a place for him on this team. Defensively responsible forwards who know where they are supposed to be on the ice are still a commodity. Holmstrom has a good shot. Next season I'd like to see him grow his confidence enough that he'll cruise into the O zone and get below the hash marks more often.

Holmstrom does very little for me. He's a cultured player for sure, but what is the upside? He just seems like Josh Bailey all over again. Wahlstrom has got a tremendous shot. Some coach will teach him to use it properly and he'll be a 25-30 goal player.

Holmstrom's already a better Bailey. Imagine having that kind of player and NOT paying him $5M/yr.

Keep Simon Holmstrom, get rid of Josh Bailey.

 

[SI]

Shifting towards the playoffs -

Buffalo have a back to back tonight and tomorrow - they play tonight against the Oilers @ home and then at UBS against the Isles.

Isles need to take this game at home and hopefully the Oilers can take care business.

 

[Mike C]

Shifting towards the playoffs -

Buffalo have a back to back tonight and tomorrow - they play tonight against the Oilers @ home and then at UBS against the Isles.

Isles need to take this game at home and hopefully the Oilers can take care business.

Shifting towards the playoffs -

Buffalo have a back to back tonight and tomorrow - they play tonight against the Oilers @ home and then at UBS against the Isles.

Isles need to take this game at home and hopefully the Oilers can take care business.

What's doing SI!!

Status quo over here. No complaints. What's your prognosis entering the week? How we looking?

 

[periferal]

I've always gotten the impression you wanted a tear down and rebuild, not a re-tool (or rehab or renovate or whatever someone wants to call it).

I want whatever makes the core of this team younger and more talented - To compete with those other teams at the top of the NHL that are more talented.

Given that Lou has traded away lots of picks for average vets (minus Horvat) and seemingly has no interest in a retool much less a rebuild, the farm system is barren, and thus to me it looks like a rebuild will be necessary in the coming years. If Lou changes his philosophy and can split the atom by taking the limited amount of tradable contracts we have an ship them off for talented guys in the mid/young 20's then god bless, but I think we're fooling ourselves to think that will be possible.

But at some point a hard choice is going to have to be made. Like this summer might be a smart idea to trade Nelson to a center-needy team with a good D/W prospect on the cusp of being in the NHL. Then make Horvat Nelson's replacement and try to sign a good winger with the money you saved from Nelson's deal. That's the way you retool on the fly - By getting younger.

Would Lou do something like that? I haven't seen any evidence he will trade a vet on this team unless the cap forces him to...And Nelson doesn't *need* to be traded. Instead what's more likely is Lou will trade picks for Arizona to take Bailey off our cap thus reducing the limited assets we have to improve the team even further.

 

[SCMURRAY]

Shifting towards the playoffs -

Buffalo have a back to back tonight and tomorrow - they play tonight against the Oilers @ home and then at UBS against the Isles.

Isles need to take this game at home and hopefully the Oilers can take care business.

Definitely need EDM to come up big as well as the Isles. OTT is on a heater and they face CHI tonight so that likely moves them 2 points behind us

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Wahlstrom has the tools to be a solid top 9 player - he plays physical and is actually good on the boards - he also has the elite release and shot and it is still the most difficult thing to do in this league, which is score a goal.

I would love to see Fasching get rewarded with an NHL contract for next year and he will be good to have around to keep these guys honest. Having Parise, Fasching, Holmstrom, and Wahlstrom all on the roster and coming in at 3.3 m against the cap is a great way to possibly spend heavily on other areas.

The reality is you have to keep Wahlstrom and hope he figures it out, and yes re-sign Parise (must) and get Fasching back on the cheap if possible.

With our cap situation, that plan is a near MUST. regardless of what we can/cant do with Bailey or if we miraculously find some loose change in the sofas to get a true Top 6 forward.

Truth is we have no "ideal" 6th guy to join Barzal/Horvat/Lee/Nelson and Palmieri in the top six as everyone here would prefer to have Parise on the 3rd line and keep Pageau there as well. A full season of Matty/Horvat and how good we "should be" in the middle and on face offs with a full season of Bo, Brock, JGP and Casey is one of the few exciting things to look forward to next season.

The real hope we should all embrace is that Ollie gets his act together, because he (and not the offensive-limited Simon or the "simply giving it his all" Hudson) is the only potential top 6er of the group. It's not like Kyle is lighting it up at RW, so of course he can move back to LW where he has spent half his career (and I would argue been more productive).

The only question really about the forward group is whether we can find enough loose change in the sofas to bring back Engvall, as I doubt we can or will do anything else. I am actually ok with this forward group in 2023-24:

Lee-Horvat-Barzal
Plamieri-Nelson- Wahlstrom/Engvall
Parise-JGP-Holmstrom
Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck/Fasching

Durandeau/Iskhakov/Dufour

No, the biggest thing we need is our 6 million or so and Bailey to transform into a backup goalie and TWO defenseman, with one of them being a puck mover, something this team DESPERATELY needs....

Not sure investing in Varly (will he take 2 million????) or Mayfield (surely he wants to get paid now) is the way to go AT ALL......which again, is why I would have moved them...

P.S. I don't even consider trading Nelson, Pageau or Palmieri because of the cost it would take to move the later two and giving no credence whatsoever to Lou moving Brock, although it most certainly should be an option to help our long term status

 

[Kevin27NYI]

I'd do Fasching and Parise on near minimum deals. Whally on a one year deal for 1,200,000. Varly 2x2. Mayfield 3.5 x 6. Buyout Bailey. We'll have a million in space.

Whally-Horvat-Barzal
Lee-Nelson-Palms
Parise-Pageau-Fasching
Martin-Cizikas-Clutter
RJ

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-Dobson
Aho/Bolduc-Mayfield
Aho/Bolduc

Sorokin-Varly

When clutter gets hurt we call up Holmstrom/Dufour/Ishakov and bump Fasching down. Plenty of money at the deadline.

 

[The Wahligator]

I'd do Fasching and Parise on near minimum deals. Whally on a one year deal for 1,200,000. Varly 2x2. Mayfield 3.5 x 6. Buyout Bailey. We'll have a million in space.

Whally-Horvat-Barzal
Lee-Nelson-Palms
Parise-Pageau-Fasching
Martin-Cizikas-Clutter
RJ

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-Dobson
Aho/Bolduc-Mayfield
Aho/Bolduc

Sorokin-Varly

When clutter gets hurt we call up Holmstrom/Dufour/Ishakov and bump Fasching down. Plenty of money at the deadline.

Considering Lou's history with pending UFAs I'd be shocked if he didn't re-sign Engvall. Bailey will have to be moved or Clutterbuck put on LTIR/retirement.

 

[JKP]

At the moment, I would think we're all hoping hard for the Isles to go on a strong run here, because getting a playoff spot that would AVOID Boston and Carolina in Round 1 would be huge at this point.

I honestly see no difference (you have to beat those teams at some point anyway) and would actually rather catch a top team early before they get into a playoff rhythm after coasting into the POs.

 

[MJF]

I'd do Fasching and Parise on near minimum deals. Whally on a one year deal for 1,200,000. Varly 2x2. Mayfield 3.5 x 6. Buyout Bailey. We'll have a million in space.

Whally-Horvat-Barzal
Lee-Nelson-Palms
Parise-Pageau-Fasching
Martin-Cizikas-Clutter
RJ

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-Dobson
Aho/Bolduc-Mayfield
Aho/Bolduc

Sorokin-Varly

When clutter gets hurt we call up Holmstrom/Dufour/Ishakov and bump Fasching down. Plenty of money at the deadline.

Agreed that Parise can stay if he signs another league min deal. Agree that Fasching should be signing a league min 2-way contract. He's a cool story but has very little impact on a game.

With this lineup we tread water again next season.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Agreed that Parise can stay if he signs another league min deal. Agree that Fasching should be signing a league min 2-way contract. He's a cool story but has very little impact on a game.

With this lineup we tread water again next season.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

This is an okay plan. Not a good or even great plan. I expect more with the new owners, the new building and an all-world goalie on a cheap contract.