Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[leeroggy]

After watching the Toronto game last night my focus would shift to Marner if I am Lou. I think there is something there. Would I trade Romanov in a make believe deal for Marner instead of Pulock? Yes. My thought process is if Toronto trades for Marner they HAVE to trade him for a defenseman right? A right handed defenseman on a good contract in Pulock would make sense in my opinion. Especially if Marner gets the Toronto dip (similar to Phil getting dealt for a shit return).

The only possibility I see about Marner is if Lou has better insight into Marner than the Toronto beat reporters, who are ready to send Marner to the International Space Station this morning.

I can not remember the last time I saw a frenzy like this over a player in a playoff game. And remember that Marner is rumored to want a big raise (some have mentioned $13 million+!).

How much of this is the media up there (30 beat writers???) and how much is we finally got to see the dynamic inside the locker room is TBD.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Ha! Just rewatched that last night.

 

[periferal]

We agree on a lot of points here. I do disagree with you on the value of Pelech/Pulock around the NHL though. Which for that only time will tell. I hope as we head into the offseason and the rest of playoffs we can continue to have discussions with some actual substance like this.

Totally agree on discussion.

My take on Pelech/Pulock is less about the players (although Pulock has become incredibly average and Pelech is like half the player he used to be), and more about their contracts. Both are around 6M a year until 2029 and 2030 respectively. That's horrible for trade value and why I think they don't have any.

I mean if you're the Islanders and you even had 20+ million in cap space, why would you use up 6M of it for the next 6 years on an average defenseman who, in both cases, the skills will only erode during the remainder of the contracts?

You wouldn't...And that's the point as all teams will think this way.

When you can find someone like Mike Reilly off the scrap heap for nothing - Both in terms of assets given up and cap space taken up, then there's no way Pelech and Pulock have value.

 

[The Real JT]

Totally agree on discussion.

My take on Pelech/Pulock is less about the players (although Pulock has become incredibly average and Pelech is like half the player he used to be), and more about their contracts. Both are around 6M a year until 2029 and 2030 respectively. That's horrible for trade value and why I think they don't have any.

I mean if you're the Islanders and you even had 20+ million in cap space, why would you use up 6M of it for the next 6 years on an average defenseman who, in both cases, the skills will only erode during the remainder of the contracts?

You wouldn't...And that's the point as all teams will think this way.

When you can find someone like Mike Reilly off the scrap heap for nothing - Both in terms of assets given up and cap space taken up, then there's no way Pelech and Pulock have value.

The value of both Pelech and Pulock has diminished greatly no doubt but I believe both still have positive trade value. Pelech is more valuable given his (previous) status as a shutdown Dman.

While we can reference what Reilly has done for this squad in comparison to those other two players, that’s not particularly fair. Good luck finding another waiver wire pickup like him. You’re far more likely to get a Bortuzzo the next time you try it.

 

[IslesNorway]

It is quite hard to gauge Pulock and Pelechs trade value due to their deals. Six more years is a long, long time, yet at the same time they'd easily get that if they were UFAs this offseason. I believe they can both be traded but it would be hugely complicated deals with lots of moving parts, unless the Isles are taking a similar contracts back straight up.

But, the problem with all the extensions Lou signed is not just term itself but the NMCs and NTCs that come with them. Unless they are going to a contender, why would these players even consider going elsewhere?

 

[doublechili]

It is quite hard to gauge Pulock and Pelechs trade value due to their deals. Six more years is a long, long time, yet at the same time they'd easily get that if they were UFAs this offseason. I believe they can both be traded but it would be hugely complicated deals with lots of moving parts, unless the Isles are taking a similar contracts back straight up.

But, the problem with all the extensions Lou signed is not just term itself but the NMCs and NTCs that come with them. Unless they are going to a contender, why would these players even consider going elsewhere?

I think step 1 is to tell the player that they're not a good fit with what the new coach is trying to do, ie., they're not as valuable/wanted to the team as they were. Step 2 is to find a place that might be a good fit. So, say TOR wants a defensive LHD and the Isles GM works out a deal with Pelech going there. Does Pelech stay where he's not wanted or does he go "home" to TOR where he is wanted? Similar thing with Pulock and, say, VAN or WPG.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I think step 1 is to tell the player that they're not a good fit with what the new coach is trying to do, ie., they're not as valuable/wanted to the team as they were. Step 2 is to find a place that might be a good fit. So, say TOR wants a defensive LHD and the Isles GM works out a deal with Pelech going there. Does Pelech stay where he's not wanted or does he go "home" to TOR where he is wanted? Similar thing with Pulock and, say, VAN or WPG.

Aren't NTC's fairly common/standard now? Pretty sure they're modified all the time. Just gives the player a little more leverage...

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

@periferal you asked in the GDT what I would do. Here it is:

1.) trade Pageau for anything. After being a part of a pretty solid line in the postseason I do not believe he is seen as a wasteful contract around the league. It will be a major mistake to hold onto him.

2.) Clutterbuck, Martin, Bortuzzo can all walk. I would be fine if Clutterbuck came back on a league minimum deal to be a part of the fourth line.

3.) Once Toronto gets eliminated trade Ryan Pulock, Matthew Maggio, and a 2024 1st for Nylander. Be willing to add more if needed.

4.) Resign Oliver Wahlstrom (1 year $1 per) Mike Rielly (2 years $2 per), Kyle Maclean (2 years $1 per), and Ruslan Ishakov (1 year $1 per).

5.) Go get a smooth skating defenseman such as Erik Gustafsson on as cheap of a deal as possible. This was a major mistake not keeping him and the team has not replaced the offensive skating ability of Leddy and Toews.

This roster would be right around $87.75 million which should be below the cap next season. Here is your lineup:

Barzal-Horvat-Nylander
Lee-Nelson-Palmieri
Ishakov-Cizikas-Engvall
Gauthier-Maclean-Fasching
Wahlstrom

Romanov-Dobson
Pelech-Mayfield
Rielly-Bolduc/Gustafsson

Sorokin
Varlamov

6.) At the trade deadline you add on to the defensive side of the puck preferably with someone to be on the second pairing. Be willing to pivot from one of Palmieri or Nelson if it does not seem they are staying/their game dips. You can always use the assets to add elsewhere in the lineup. At least one of these guys will have to walk to make room for the Romanov/Dobson contracts in the offseason.

7.) If anyone expects a plan for the following offseason that is looking too far into the future. How will Ishakov look? Wahlstrom? Will Bolduc actually get to play? Will Engvall play under Roy like this a full year? Do we have a new fourth line? Did Pelech stay healthy? What about Mayfield? Things should be fluid for the following offseason.

This roster does not include more than two trades. Getting rid of Pageau for anything and then making a trade for Nylander. Does this win a Cup? Honestly I do not know. I do think this roster is building towards having an offense that is more in tune with the current NHL though. I also believe that the defense does need more speed. Pelech and Mayfield worry me as that would be the main hole I see in this roster. Go ahead and kill the post but let's discuss the actual moves and not "LOU WOULD NEVER DO THIS."

Crazy / sad thing is that we already had Gustafsson in the building on a PTO just one season ago...

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Haven't seen anyone mention this:

According to this article, former Ottawa Senators prospect Marcus Högberg (6'5", 218 pounds) claims he's heading back to the NHL and the podcast he recently spoke to said their info is that he's joining the Islanders organization for next season. He's 29 and has been the go-to starter with a seriously heavy workload for the past 3 seasons for Linköping.

 

[Skip To My Lou]

Haven't seen anyone mention this:
View attachment 861875

According to this article, former Ottawa Senators prospect Marcus Högberg (6'5", 218 pounds) claims he's joining the Islanders organization for next season. He's 29 and has been the go-to starter with a seriously heavy workload for the past 3 seasons for Linköping.

Always good to have reinforcements.

However, I'm not sure I see the logic from his POV to sign with the Islanders. Unless Sorokin and/or Varlamov get hurt, he's not sniffing the NHL.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Always good to have reinforcements.

However, I'm not sure I see the logic from his POV to sign with the Islanders. Unless Sorokin and/or Varlamov get hurt, he's not sniffing the NHL.

Anything that makes me feel like they're gonna jetison Skarek has me feeling content.

 

[seafoam]

Always good to have reinforcements.

However, I'm not sure I see the logic from his POV to sign with the Islanders. Unless Sorokin and/or Varlamov get hurt, he's not sniffing the NHL.

From his POV, he gets an NHL contract and a chance to get claimed off of waivers.

For all we know this could be his only NHL deal.

 

[MJF]

Haven't seen anyone mention this:
View attachment 861875

According to this article, former Ottawa Senators prospect Marcus Högberg (6'5", 218 pounds) claims he's heading back to the NHL and the podcast he recently spoke to said their info is that he's joining the Islanders organization for next season. He's 29 and has been the go-to starter with a seriously heavy workload for the past 3 seasons for Linköping.

Bye bye Ken Appleby.

Bext out the door, Jakub Skarek. Hopefully Worcester-bound.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Totally agree on discussion.

My take on Pelech/Pulock is less about the players (although Pulock has become incredibly average and Pelech is like half the player he used to be), and more about their contracts. Both are around 6M a year until 2029 and 2030 respectively. That's horrible for trade value and why I think they don't have any.

I mean if you're the Islanders and you even had 20+ million in cap space, why would you use up 6M of it for the next 6 years on an average defenseman who, in both cases, the skills will only erode during the remainder of the contracts?

You wouldn't...And that's the point as all teams will think this way.

When you can find someone like Mike Reilly off the scrap heap for nothing - Both in terms of assets given up and cap space taken up, then there's no way Pelech and Pulock have value.

Rielly looks great but he is also getting much easier minutes. Pulock is averaging 25 minutes per game. Pelech 22 minutes. Rielly is not even at 19 minutes per game. If Mike Rielly was a top four defenseman he would not have ever been placed on waivers.

Pulock is a step above Pelech and three steps about Rielly to me.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Pelech for Nylander from the Leafs plz

I was thinking Pelech + for Marner.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Rielly looks great but he is also getting much easier minutes. Pulock is averaging 25 minutes per game. Pelech 22 minutes. Rielly is not even at 19 minutes per game. If Mike Rielly was a top four defenseman he would not have ever been placed on waivers.

Pulock is a step above Pelech and three steps about Rielly to me.

This isn't only reason why the initial argument doesn't even make sense. There are many, many. But, it is a good one.

 

[IslesNorway]

I was thinking Pelech + for Marner.

Unless you are adding the Islanders next four 1st rounders into that deal, they have nothing to offer. Our cupboard is bare and there is hardly a prospect in our system interesting to other clubs.

Best way forward is to get rid of players like Palmieri, Pageau and Nelson, who are coming towards the end of their deals, and get picks, prospects and young NHLers in return. They may well want to play for a cup at the tailend of their careers, and might waive their NTCs.

But then again, these players have families, kids and wives who may not want to move to a different part of the country or even a different country, and start afresh with new friends and all. We just never know.

 

[periferal]

Always good to have reinforcements.

However, I'm not sure I see the logic from his POV to sign with the Islanders. Unless Sorokin and/or Varlamov get hurt, he's not sniffing the NHL.

If you see quotes from him it says, "Jag har sett det laget dela ut långtidskontrakt till andra spelare mer än någon annan GM och det är ekonomiskt vettigt för min familj att försöka få en av dem," which translates to basically, "I have seen that team hand out long term contracts to other players more than any other GM and it makes financial sense for my family to try to get one of them."

 

[leeroggy]

I was thinking Pelech + for Marner.

You haven't been paying attention to the Marner news the last few days? I would take Nylander over Marner AINEC. I want no part of a Daddy/Son Diva combination.

 

[periferal]

Rielly looks great but he is also getting much easier minutes. Pulock is averaging 25 minutes per game. Pelech 22 minutes. Rielly is not even at 19 minutes per game. If Mike Rielly was a top four defenseman he would not have ever been placed on waivers.

Pulock is a step above Pelech and three steps about Rielly to me.

Oh I agree...And if Pulock only had 2 years left on his deal as opposed to 6 then I'd agree he'd have some decent trade value.

Alas he is signed until 2030 (with an NTC that kicks in the last 3 years of a deal meaning any acquiring team will have even a harder time dumping his contract if his play falls off later), so when you take into account Pulock's financial/contract situation that really mitigates any real value he has.

And Pelech's situation is even worse as his 16-team NTC kicks in July 1, 2025 (when he still has 4 years left on his deal).

We're all out in the cheap seats proposing this move or that move that the Isles should do, but the reality of the situation is that Lou has boxed this team in a corner today and it's going to take literal years to undo the damage he's done.

 

[leeroggy]

If you see quotes from him it says, "Jag har sett det laget dela ut långtidskontrakt till andra spelare mer än någon annan GM och det är ekonomiskt vettigt för min familj att försöka få en av dem," which translates to basically, "I have seen that team hand out long term contracts to other players more than any other GM and it makes financial sense for my family to try to get one of them."

Perif, your Swedish is amazing, but you don't have Britt Eklund's looks, so the hell with you!

 

[PK Cronin]

Oh I agree...And if Pulock only had 2 years left on his deal as opposed to 6 then I'd agree he'd have some decent trade value.

Alas he is signed until 2030 (with an NTC that kicks in the last 3 years of a deal meaning any acquiring team will have even a harder time dumping his contract if his play falls off later), so when you take into account Pulock's financial/contract situation that really mitigates any real value he has.

And Pelech's situation is even worse as his 16-team NTC kicks in July 1, 2025 (when he still has 4 years left on his deal).

Pulock currently has an NTC and it becomes a modified NTC those last three years (starting in 2027-18).
Pelech currently has an NTC and it becomes a modified NTC in 2025-26.

Moving Pelech is significantly easier than Pulock because he only has a year left of full NTC protection, whereas Pulock has three more years.

 

[Potvottier]

It is quite hard to gauge Pulock and Pelechs trade value due to their deals. Six more years is a long, long time, yet at the same time they'd easily get that if they were UFAs this offseason. I believe they can both be traded but it would be hugely complicated deals with lots of moving parts, unless the Isles are taking a similar contracts back straight up.

But, the problem with all the extensions Lou signed is not just term itself but the NMCs and NTCs that come with them. Unless they are going to a contender, why would these players even consider going elsewhere?

The contracts front loaded - Nelson, Lee, Pageau

These aren't - Barzal, Horvat, Pelech, Pulock, Cizikas, Engvall, and Sorokin...

I am not unhappy with LL's long term deals, other than Engvall (stilll... I feel like he can go either way, good or bad).

 

[Glorydays22]

I was thinking Pelech + for Marner.

No way on Marner, you want a cry baby and a player who disappears in the playoff? Pelech + for Nylander all day.

Pulock currently has an NTC and it becomes a modified NTC those last three years (starting in 2027-18).
Pelech currently has an NTC and it becomes a modified NTC in 2025-26.

Moving Pelech is significantly easier than Pulock because he only has a year left of full NTC protection, whereas Pulock has three more years.

I'm keeping Pulock, Pelech is the one we need to move in a package for a good forward

 

[periferal]

Pulock currently has an NTC and it becomes a modified NTC those last three years (starting in 2027-18).
Pelech currently has an NTC and it becomes a modified NTC in 2025-26.

Yes. That's what I said.

Moving Pelech is significantly easier than Pulock because he only has a year left of full NTC protection, whereas Pulock has three more years.

Legit don't know how you came to this conclusion because...

• Pulock is notably better than Pelech right now.
• NTCs/Modified NTC's travel with a player. So if a team trades for Pelech they can't trade him again without his consent after July 1, 2025. However any team that acquires Pulock has until October 2027 to trade him again without consent. More flexibility = More value.