Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[seafoam]

This team has bigger fish to fry than the 4th line.

Of course, but it’s easier to sign 4th liners than acquire scorers.

 

[periferal]

Anyone remember when the Isles had the "best 4th line in hockey" and were still missing the playoffs...Because the other 3 lines were average at best?

Teams that win Cups care about their 1st and 2nd lines...And usually have elite ones.

The 4th line had very likable characters who had grit and heart so it's understandable how we hold them and want to "replace" them, but that shouldn't be the focus. All 3 are now past their prime and not even sure Martin/Clutterbuck are worth minimum salaries as of next season.

We have got to start shirting resources (cap space, picks, trades) to the top of the roster as opposed to the bottom. You don't need any more proof of this than feeling like Barzal and Horvat are the only ones who can create offense...And we still can't score enough.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Anyone remember when the Isles had the "best 4th line in hockey" and were still missing the playoffs...Because the other 3 lines were average at best?

Teams that win Cups care about their 1st and 2nd lines...And usually have elite ones.

The 4th line had very likable characters who had grit and heart so it's understandable how we hold them and want to "replace" them, but that shouldn't be the focus. All 3 are now past their prime and not even sure Martin/Clutterbuck are worth minimum salaries as of next season.

We have got to start shirting resources (cap space, picks, trades) to the top of the roster as opposed to the bottom. You don't need any more proof of this than feeling like Barzal and Horvat are the only ones who can create offense...And we still can't score enough.

This is a big word salad to say that losing Tavares hurt a lot.

 

[miscs75]

This is a big word salad to say that losing Tavares hurt a lot.

The actual downfall of this team was when they drafted a Toronto-based rapper over

 

[Lek]

hmmm....we have had two new voices as head coach, but no new voices leading the locker room. L Look, Lee has done a great job here (past this year and , well ok, last). It is time for a leadership change in the locker room and the only way to do that is move on from Lee.

So.... folks we should also move on from - in order.
Lee
Pags
Martin
Nelson- only because it is time to do so.
Fasching
Wally
Engval
Clutter, though i am fine with him back on a Budget friendly number
Also ok with moving one or both of the two P's on D as it is just about time to do so.

 

[SI]

The semi - blow-up option - no trading of any player with an NTC.

Lee - buy out 4.15 AAV savings
Nelson - trade for futures 6 AAV savings (1st and a prospect)
Palmieri - trade for futures 5 AAV savings (2nd or 3rd)
Pageau @ 50% - retention - 2.5 AAV savings (2nd or 3rd)
Keep Blueline and Goalies

87.675 CAP - this would give the Isles exactly 23m to spend - Without trading anyone from this roster how would you build a 22 or 23 man roster? Find a D man, LW 4th liner, extra F's, and 4 Top 6 wingers. Would love to see some ideas? Who wants to play? Also, you can undo any of the buyouts or trades above

Forwards

1. ??? - Barzal - ???
2. ??? - Horvat - ???
3. Engvall - Cizikas - Holmstrom
4. ??? - Maclean - Fasching

Defense

1. Romanov - Dobson
2. Pelech - Pulock
3. Bolduc - Mayfield
4. ???

Goalies

1. Sorokin
2. Varlamov

 

[seafoam]

Buchnevich & Pinto are the guys for me.

Use any draft pick/prospect, Holmstrom, Lee, Nelson, Pageau, and Palmieri to aquire these two players (assuming they will sign on the dotted line long term).

Top six becomes...

X-Horvat-Buchnevich
Barzal-Pinto-X

Sprinkle in Zach Hyman-esque players in the two remaining top six spots (aka guys with some jam who can do dirty work and finish). Palmieri could realistically work on 2RW but if he needs to go in a deal to upgrade the top six that is a deal that has to be done.

Defense and goaltending are balanced and have depth, load up the top six for once.

 

[miscs75]

Martin will be back most likely. He’s at 946 games and you know Lou will “do right” by him so he gets to 1000. He does deserve it.

 

[SI]

Buchnevich & Pinto are the guys for me.

Use any draft pick/prospect, Holmstrom, Lee, Nelson, Pageau, and Palmieri to aquire these two players (assuming they will sign on the dotted line long term).

Top six becomes...

X-Horvat-Buchnevich
Barzal-Pinto-X

Sprinkle in Zach Hyman-esque players in the two remaining top six spots (aka guys with some jam who can do dirty work and finish). Palmieri could realistically work on 2RW but if he needs to go in a deal to upgrade the top six that is a deal that has to be done.

Defense and goaltending are balanced and have depth, load up the top six for once.

I am thinking the best way to inject some new life into this team would be to trade Nelson and Palmieri and rebuild the 4th line. I constantly oscillate back and forth on this, but ultimately it comes down to these 3 things:

1. Nelson and Palmieri will get the best returns
2. And clear the most cap
3. They both have modified trade protection

Moving Nelson
I did see a possible hockey trade between the Blues, Nelson and Buch, but got feedback from the main board and most pushed back on that idea. IMO, the most likely 16-team NTC is all 7 Canadian teams, Arizona, and say all the Western conference teams. Detroit and Minnesota are my best guesses -

1. If Detroit misses the playoffs again, then Yzerman will feeel more pressure to break the streak. Finding a 2C to play behind Larkin, while knocking Copp to the W, and Compher to the 3C will work. I can see Nelson being used here and the Islanders receive the 2024 1st and say one of Marco Kasper, Nate Danielson, Sandin-Pellika. The pick will be somewhere between 12 and 16, i.e. say the pick is Iginla. Iginla and Danielson, along with the Isles 1st, say Buium, and already the Isles prospect pool is rebuilt in one draft year. This will lessen the loss of the 2025 1st at the TDL, when LL dangles it for more help - possibly on D or F.
2. If Minny misses, then I also feel like Guerin will look to acquire a C - Nelson is a Minny native and his low cap hit of 6m will undoubtedly help during the Suter and Parise cap penalties, which will be done after the 24-25 season. The 2024 first, the pick will be somewhere between 12 and 16, (i.e. say the pick is Iginla) and a prospect (Riley Heidt).

Moving Palmieri
Palmieri is on pace to end the season with over 25 goals and 50 points. With only 1 season left @ 5 AAV, I can definitely see a team looking for top 6 help sniffing around Palmieri. He is much better option than signing a UFA of a similar production to a multi-year deal. A team that has multiple 2nd or 3rd rounders should be targeted. Palmieri also has a modified NTC of 16 teams and IMO no Canadian and Western Conference teams still apply.

1. Chicago is a team that quickly comes to mind because they have multiple 2nds and will look to surround Bedard and potentially Macklin Celebrini with some veteran top 6 presence.
2. Nashville - Trotz connection, Preds could use top 6 help, and they have multiple 2nds. Nashville will get some cap relief once Philly buys out Johansen this summer.

So, I would not buy out Lee or trade Pageau. I would trade Wahlstrom to Columbus for Olivier, sign a 7th D man, who can move the puck at the league minimum, sign a value-free agent looking for a bounce-back year to a one-year deal, i.e. Bertuzzi, Zucker, Barbanov, Beauvillier, Rosolvic, Kapanen, etc., and then all the cap should go to overpay for Marchessault and Debrusk.

1. Lee - Barzal - DeBrusk
2. Engvall - Horvat - Marchessault
3. Barbanov - Pageau - Holmstrom
4. Maclean - Cizikas - Olivier Extra F - Fasching

Defense

1. Romanov - Dobson
2. Pelech - Pulock
3. Bolduc - Mayfield
4. Depth D man (who can move the puck at the league minimum)

Goalies

1. Sorokin
2. Varlamov

TOP 15 prospects

1. Buium, LHD
2. Danielson, C
3. Iginla, F
4. Danny Nelson, C
5. Bolduc, LHD
6. Isles 2024 2nd round (pick 42-48)
7. NSH 2024 2nd round (pick 50-54)
8. Iskhakov, F
9. Dufour, RW
10. Maggio, RW
11. Odelius, LHD
12. Finley, F
13. Berg, C
14. Jefferies, RW
15. George, LHD

 

[Crashsunday]

Martin will be back most likely. He’s at 946 games and you know Lou will “do right” by him so he gets to 1000. He does deserve it.

I surely hope not. I don’t believe anybody deserves 1,000 games, especially if the team has to suffer 54 games and lackluster play to get them there.

I appreciate Martin as much as anybody, by the way. Hustle and hits are his game and I love that style of hockey.

 

[seafoam]

Martin doesn’t need to hit 1K to be celebrated.

If that is a personal goal of his, he can complete that selfishly in Arizona or Chicago…

 

[periferal]

Martin will be back most likely. He’s at 946 games and you know Lou will “do right” by him so he gets to 1000. He does deserve it.

f***ing love Matt Martin. Has been an absolutely warrior for most of the past decade.

That said, he's done. He was never a scorer, but what he added physcially was invaluable. However now he's not even checking/grinding like he used to so he's basically done as an NHL player.

The only way he should come back is for the vet minimum, but realistically the team should approach Martin and see if he's interested in transitioning to the front office (like Eric Cairns did). To me he should be a part of the organization - Just not on the ice.

 

[seafoam]

f***ing love Matt Martin. Has been an absolutely warrior for most of the past decade.

That said, he's done. He was never a scorer, but what he added physcially was invaluable. However now he's not even checking/grinding like he used to so he's basically done as an NHL player.

The only way he should come back is for the vet minimum, but realistically the team should approach Martin and see if he's interested in transitioning to the front office (like Eric Cairns did). To me he should be a part of the organization - Just not on the ice.

Agreed, Martin is done as a player, PERIOD.

If they bring him back it HAS to be as a 13th forward who plays on the second half of back to backs or against teams with a fighter…

Even that is doing him a favor.

 

[duster19]

Martin doesn’t need to hit 1K to be celebrated.

If that is a personal goal of his, he can complete that selfishly in Arizona or Chicago…

Martin has been ineffective for a couple seasons now. He has no speed. His edge is gone. He really brings nothing anymore. I’m surprised that he is consistently penciled in as a regular without any thought of change. I have seen nothing of Ish but his skill set seems like huge lack on the team. We can’t win a game in OT to save our lives. Same for a SO. Seems hiding him on the 4th line for a guy like Martin might help solve a huge issue.

Lou’s strength when he came to the isles was that he filled holes that snow couldn’t. Coaching. Goaltending. Even last year he unloaded Beau and they benched Bailey. Two huge issues. This year he didn’t really do much. Roy definitely wasn’t the unicorn he hoped. His off-season was a disaster. Not sure why he didn’t try anything with Ish knowing the issues they have and what he could potentially bring.

 

[miscs75]

I surely hope not. I don’t believe anybody deserves 1,000 games, especially if the team has to suffer 54 games and lackluster play to get them there.

I appreciate Martin as much as anybody, by the way. Hustle and hits are his game and I love that style of hockey.

He’s toast when it comes to his game and it’s clearly visible but if Lou is still the GM, I can fully see him coming back as the 13F and playing 50 games or whatever he has left just so he can get to 1k then retire right after the season ends. Lou would bring back Randy McKay if he saw he was at 1399 and needed 1 more to get to 1400 even though he hasn’t played since before Scion was a car company.

 

[Big L]

Not sure why he didn’t try anything with Ish knowing the issues they have and what he could potentially bring.

Probably because they know exactly that Isk could bring.

 

[PK Cronin]

f***ing love Matt Martin. Has been an absolutely warrior for most of the past decade.

That said, he's done. He was never a scorer, but what he added physcially was invaluable. However now he's not even checking/grinding like he used to so he's basically done as an NHL player.

The only way he should come back is for the vet minimum, but realistically the team should approach Martin and see if he's interested in transitioning to the front office (like Eric Cairns did). To me he should be a part of the organization - Just not on the ice.

Best case scenario is he signs somewhere else, plays games until he hits 999, the Isles trade for him (for future considerations), give him one game and then he retires immediately after.

He's past due and the team can't afford to give him a real contract or playing time.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Playing Fasching because he makes the league minimum is a low bar. Fasching is not an NHL player. We need better than him.

I don’t necessarily disagree but I do think he can fill a 4th line role for league minimum also. I think we could get better but it’s going to cost more than $750k.

 

[BelovedIsles]

It's still something that needs to be done. And the most obvious as Martin and Clutter's contracts are up so while we can talk about signing Montour or Hanifan or creative ways to create space, one thing for certain is that there will be new guys on the fourth line so we can definitely talk about it.

Sure, depth has been a weakness this year. With that said, we all know this team needs a major talent upgrade. That is usually allocated to the top 6/4.

 

[Glorydays22]

I'd take Carrier too. If we could unload Pageau somewhere, let Whally, Martin and Clutter go and replace with Carrier, Lomberg and Duhaime/Carrier we'd have a very effective bottom six filled with speedy crashers that could help rechange the makeup of this team.

I would love to sign Carrier who's a FA at the end of the year.
Also would like us to sign Stephenson from Vegas too. He's a FA and I don't think Vegas has any cap space for either one.

 

[BelovedIsles]

I’d hang on to Palms, unless it’s for an upgrade, eg top-line winger. Let him ride out his contract.

I like March’s game (speed, gumption, smarts, goalscoring), but I’m wary of his age. I like Guentzel as well, doubt he signs here. Prefer March, but again his age. NYI needs to get younger.

 

[leeroggy]

Lou would bring back Randy McKay if he saw he was at 1399 and needed 1 more to get to 1400 even though he hasn’t played since before Scion was a car company.

Well, we DID bring Al Arbour back for his 1,400th win . . .

 

[Glorydays22]

Not sure if I would pursue him. But what do you think of C-Norris from Ottawa. Here is a guy who in the last 2 years only played 58 games do to shoulder injury. He was the clear #2 guy with Ottawa and gave him a big contract. But now it seems Pinto has clearly taken the #2 Center spot in Ottawa. I heard they may want to move him to get that salary off their hands. I'm sure his value is low. But worried about the shoulder and his ability to stay healthy

 

[miscs75]

Well, we DID bring Al Arbour back for his 1,400th win . . .

Slightly easier to bring back a coach for his 1500th game then to dress a player for 50 games to get to 1000 games played. Also substantially cheaper. Then again, the team is still holding onto draft mistakes on the roster.

 

[Osakahaus]

Anyone remember when the Isles had the "best 4th line in hockey" and were still missing the playoffs...Because the other 3 lines were average at best?

Teams that win Cups care about their 1st and 2nd lines...And usually have elite ones.

The 4th line had very likable characters who had grit and heart so it's understandable how we hold them and want to "replace" them, but that shouldn't be the focus. All 3 are now past their prime and not even sure Martin/Clutterbuck are worth minimum salaries as of next season.

We have got to start shirting resources (cap space, picks, trades) to the top of the roster as opposed to the bottom. You don't need any more proof of this than feeling like Barzal and Horvat are the only ones who can create offense...And we still can't score enough.

The issue we got now is, ironically, the top line being able to carry while our depth has dried up. Seriously, our scoring disparity is that of a team like the Rangers from 2019-2021 when they STUNK