Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Osakahaus]

Maybe Clayton Keller wants out before his NTC kicks in. The Isles have a player with a NTC kicking in July 1.

Alright so lets get nuts

lets trade Sorokin Nelson and our first for Keller, Guenther, Vedjmelka, and three of Arizona's 2nds

Go all in

 

[Throttle]

They also didn’t have to deal with the expansion draft which hampered some of the isles plans.

It is what it is. The difference is Vegas has kept their foot on the gas and is a desirable place to play. Players want to play there. They took on a huge risk in acquiring Eichel and it’s worked in their favor.

Alright so lets get nuts

lets trade Sorokin Nelson and our first for Keller, Guenther, Vedjmelka, and three of Arizona's 2nds

Go all in

On Xm today, one of the goalie guys said Sorokin is showing all the signs of a goalie struggling mentally. Is it an off year, or do the Isles now have Bob 2.0?

 

[PK Cronin]

Of course you can win with that style and many have as you note, but you have to have enough talent to do that and you've already conceded that the Islander's "weren't great". Those other teams were and proved it.

Just going off memory, two of those teams were 8 seeds when they won the cup. Lots of times great talent or teams are viewed so only after they've won the cup, otherwise they get grouped with the teams like Vancouver who couldn't win.

There's no way to know if your team is going to be the Blues or the if they're going to be the Canucks and if you have the opportunity you should take it, especially as a veteran team.

No, the argument is that the GM, when given a choice, has always chosen wrong.

If you think that then I'm not interested in continuing the conversation. You came in hyperbolic and are tripling down. I'm not interested in reading it and I doubt many others are either.

 

[Strickland]

its absolutely scary how barren the farm system has become. this team has become dry at the worst possible time. it feels like we're going to become the Sharks at this rate.

At least the Sharks have bottomed out. The Isles can't even do that, just muddle along hoping if everything breaks right they'll be fodder for a top seed in the first round. It's pretty grim.

OH my! Your posts have certainly been pretty special and there are a bunch of "pearls" - the bolded in particular is crazy inaccurate - the system has in fact been just as bad or worse a few times in this franchise's history.

If the team continues to flounder next season (2024-25 season) and miss the playoffs, then you have the potential for a rebuild -

• Nelson and Palmieri are on expiring contracts and could be dealt at the TDL
• Adam Pelech's NTC becomes a Modified- NTC (16 team no trade) July 1st 2025
• Lee and JGP can be moved at 50% retained at the 2025 TDL
• Cizikas can also be moved at the 2025 TDL
• If the team also needed to - although they would need players to make the cap floor, Engvall and Mayfield could be bought out of their deals with a cap penalty of 2.1 AAV for several seasons, annoying, but certainly manageable.

And none of that is gonna happen. Lou was given an extension 12 months ago. He was allowed to fire and hire a new coach (his third coach in six seasons) two months ago. He's not going anywhere. He's also made clear that he's not selling and he believes in this core. So it's more of the same. And it'll get rationalized by the same people here laughing at me because that's all they can try to do: rationalize the irrational.

The 82 year old man is not in the business of future planning. He is not, as someone here today called him in one of the most absurd usages of the word, "prudent". He has burned the crops and salted the earth.

But maybe, some here claim, life will bloom next season. Sure thing.

 

[Osakahaus]

On Xm today, one of the goalie guys said Sorokin is showing all the signs of a goalie struggling mentally. Is it an off year, or do the Isles now have Bob 2.0?

Ironic because Bobrovsky has been awesome for the Panthers all year long

but I agree, Ilya is struggling hard. Get the man help on defense, but also fix up his jitters. its worrisome.

 

[Big L]

Soro has a case of the yips?

 

[SI]

At least the Sharks have bottomed out. The Isles can't even do that, just muddle along hoping if everything breaks right they'll be fodder for a top seed in the first round. It's pretty grim.


And none of that is gonna happen. Lou was given an extension 12 months ago. He was allowed to fire and hire a new coach (his third coach in six seasons) two months ago. He's not going anywhere. He's also made clear that he's not selling and he believes in this core. So it's more of the same. And it'll get rationalized by the same people here laughing at me because that's all they can try to do: rationalize the irrational.

The 82 year old man is not in the business of future planning. He is not, as someone here today called him in one of the most absurd usages of the word, "prudent". He has burned the crops and salted the earth.

But maybe, some here claim, life will bloom next season. Sure thing.

LL is not perfect but he is a competitor and a champion - the man is looking to win. he may still believes in the core but that doesn’t mean forever.

His loyalty only goes so far - if the team underwhelms and doesn’t make the playoffs this year and next - you bet your ass he makes changes- it won’t be status quo, not sure what makes you believe that- because the man has never operated like that his entire career. he traded/dumped Bailey when Bailey had a season left on his deal that if completed would have been the all time Islander leader in games played. He waived Leo on his final deal. And you may see him buyout Lee this summer if the season goes where most feel it is going.

Not sure if you know LL - you are quick to point out what he left the Devils organization in after 3 Stanley cups and 15 year run.

 

[doublechili]

Even if they wanted to, the team can not rebuild with all these NTCs on the roster.

People say that, but it's not true. You want a rebuild? Sorokin, Barzal, Dobson and Romanov have no trade protection. Nelson has a 16 team no-trade list. Trade all 5 of those guys for picks and prospects. Then Horvat, Pulock and Pelech would gladly waive their NTCs, and you can trade them too. There would be a bonanza of picks, and a lottery team for the foreseeable future.

 

[Osakahaus]

At least the Sharks have bottomed out. The Isles can't even do that, just muddle along hoping if everything breaks right they'll be fodder for a top seed in the first round. It's pretty grim.

the sharks were absolutely in hell if they didnt win in 2019, Karlsson be damned

 

[Throttle]

Ironic because Bobrovsky has been awesome for the Panthers all year longView attachment 841472
but I agree, Ilya is struggling hard. Get the man help on defense, but also fix up his jitters. its worrisome.

Bob’s been pretty pedestrian during his time in FL, he’s a had a hot streak here and there, but overall, FL spent a lot of time trying to make it work with him as their goalie.

There’s no way FL can retain Reinhart w/o bodies going out, my guess is FL tries to get rid of Bob and Yzerman takes him.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Sheesh, this thread has made some turns.

Re: Sorokin, surprised it would be mental with him. One of his greatest assets is his poise. If it is mental, he has the best coach for such an affliction.

 

[dlawong]

To do this summer:

1. Get rid of the slowest players who can no longer contribute, especially those who did not have any major injuries this season to slow them down
2. Sign the drafted college kids with potential.
3. Encourage all players to work hard this summer to be in top shape at camp by taking on a mix of skating and passing drills, cross-fit training, protein diets, and lots of biking.
4. Search hard for undiscovered gems
5. Help Sorokin return to his top form (maybe with a better goalie coach?) is critical for next season
6. Draft well and identify roster depth needs. Use proven analytics and seek out skilled players with high IQ, strong motivation, good habits, proven endurance, and room to grow.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

In the middle of this run, Lou made one of the worst trades in recent NHL history. The team succeeded despite its GM, not because of him. He was bad at the end in Jersey, neutered in Toronto and bad here on the Island.

The team is in the worst position, organizationally, it has ever been in. It just doesn’t need to be rebuilt, it CAN NOT be rebuilt. It’s gonna take years to strip this thing down, even if they wanted to.

And all of it, ALL OF IT, was foreseeable. It’s what Lou did to Jersey. Of course it was gonna happen here, it’s all the old fool knows.

Hyperbolize much?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

3 coaches want no part of Wally. He’s not qualified or qualified, then later used as a toss in a trade. That seems like that has passed.

He can’t effectively play on the bottom six. He’s living off his draft position and contract price. That’s it.

I fear he'll simply be allowed to walk.

And we can say what we want about the why and how and what, but at the end of the day we're likely about to see the 4th(!) 1st rounder drafted with the specific function of scoring and producing walk away as a nothingburger within the past 5 seasons.

One way or another, that's just a terribly disappointing turnout.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Now the only moves we can make to acquire assets is to trade Nelson which is a scary proposition or trade a player like Pelech or Pulock. Each of those moves are a bit of a crapshoot and may make this team less competitive in the short term.

These are the three players you can make a nice hockey trade for or even acquire, in particularly Nelson's case, some promising youth in the process.

I still think the trade deadline would have been the time to get a prime package for Nelson.

But there's been no evidence to this point in time that these routes would be considered by Lou.

We must assume that this Islander team isn't getting somewhat dismantled and reassembled as long as he's the GM.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

To do this summer:

1. ...
2. Search hard for undiscovered gems
3. Help Sorokin return to his top form (maybe with a better goalie coach?) is critical for next season
4. Draft well and identify roster depth needs. Use proven analytics and seek out skilled players with high IQ, strong motivation, good habits, proven endurance, and room to grow.

Always nice to theorize about.

These are two things you can undertake, but without any guarantee that the desired results will be generated.

 

[Lek]

These are the three players you can make a nice hockey trade for or even acquire, in particularly Nelson's case, some promising youth in the process.

I still think the trade deadline would have been the time to get a prime package for Nelson.

But there's been no evidence to this point in time that these routes would be considered by Lou.

We must assume that this Islander team isn't getting somewhat dismantled and reassembled as long as he's the GM.

Maybe Lou was looking, who knows, but overall returns were low. Not a good year to sell one or two of the only pieces worth much. Off season better be fun.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Sheesh, this thread has made some turns.

Re: Sorokin, surprised it would be mental with him. One of his greatest assets is his poise. If it is mental, he has the best coach for such an affliction.

Sorokin needs off-season to reset, all the criticism he gets here is ironic to me because I think lesser goalies would have had much worse numbers than he has this year behind this team.

 

[Strickland]

LL is not perfect but he is a competitor and a champion - the man is looking to win. he may still believes in the core but that doesn’t mean forever.

His loyalty only goes so far - if the team underwhelms and doesn’t make the playoffs this year and next - you bet your ass he makes changes- it won’t be status quo, not sure what makes you believe that- because the man has never operated like that his entire career. he traded/dumped Bailey when Bailey had a season left on his deal that if completed would have been the all time Islander leader in games played. He waived Leo on his final deal. And you may see him buyout Lee this summer if the season goes where most feel it is going.

Not sure if you know LL - you are quick to point out what he left the Devils organization in after 3 Stanley cups and 15 year run.

He is a champion, yes. Even I cannot take that away from him. But those Cups are from a lifetime ago and in a totally different league. He won 3 Cups with the Devils yet in the end most Devils fans were begging for him to leave. And when he did, the damage he left took almost a decade to recover from.

As for changes, he's made the least amount of changes that he can to this core. When faced with an opportunity to move on from some players, he has chosen to extend them into forever.

He has, at almost every choice he has faced, chosen wrong. Except Trotz. But when the best (or one of) coach in the league is gone, what has his record looked like? Looks positively Snow-ian.

There's nothing in the system. There's, once Holmstrom is an RFA in a few weeks, not a single ELC on the roster. And the team is gonna miss the playoffs for the second time in three seasons. So I'm sorry I don't care about how much of a competitor Lou Lamoriello is. What I care about is results, His has been sorely lacking. Not just the past 3 years of wins and losses but the almost 6 years of hemorrhaging talent.

There's no more blood in the stone. But Lou, with the insane encouragement of members of this fanbase, is gonna keep squeezing.

 

[Strickland]

Hyperbolize much?

It's the truth. The state of this organization is DIRE. If you don't wanna believe it, that's fine. But I can't sugar coat what I see. And what I see is GRIM. A team that needs to re-tool in the worst way, but who's GM will never allow it because of his age/stubbornness. But even if he were gone, today, to re-tool properly would require unloading a number of players, all of whom have some manner of trade protection, making it if not impossible to move them, impossible to do so and get a great return.

The team is in the worst state of any in the league. Oh sure there are teams with less talent, but they're rebuilding and in the process of collecting talent. Whereas the Isles....

What does next year look like for this team? Two years from now? Three?

Lou has failed. He is failing now. He's almost assuredly going to fail in the future. And when he's gone that failure will linger, like it did for the Devils, for years and years after he's gone.

 

[Osakahaus]

Sorokin needs off-season to reset, all the criticism he gets here is ironic to me because I think lesser goalies would have had much worse numbers than he has this year behind this team.

I fear that if Ilya's best years are behind him, thats when we get concerned, especially with how finicky goalies can be. we need to hope hes back in 20224-25 or else we are SCREWED for a lacked of a better worked

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Maybe Lou was looking, who knows, but overall returns were low. Not a good year to sell one or two of the only pieces worth much. Off season better be fun.

Since Lou has never moved a full-time player without it strictly being for cap-related concerns (see Toews), we can safely assume Lou "hasn't been looking" until such a move is actually done.

 

[Osakahaus]

It's the truth. The state of this organization is DIRE. If you don't wanna believe it, that's fine. But I can't sugar coat what I see. And what I see is GRIM. A team that needs to re-tool in the worst way, but who's GM will never allow it because of his age/stubbornness. But even if he were gone, today, to re-tool properly would require unloading a number of players, all of whom have some manner of trade protection, making it if not impossible to move them, impossible to do so and get a great return.

The team is in the worst state of any in the league. Oh sure there are teams with less talent, but they're rebuilding and in the process of collecting talent. Whereas the Isles....

What does next year look like for this team? Two years from now? Three?

Lou has failed. He is failing now. He's almost assuredly going to fail in the future. And when he's gone that failure will linger, like it did for the Devils, for years and years after he's gone.

there are two lanes that I see Lou, and both ultimately end up seeing him fall short of being a great GM. He failed to get the key free agents that this franchise has needed, yet he's swung massive trades when necessary. However, in doing so he's made our farm system feel the bleakest its been since the 2000's. It really just becomes what Lamoriello never did that we get to him at the end.

 

[Strummergas]

Since Lou has never moved a full-time player without it strictly being for cap-related concerns (see Toews), we can safely assume Lou "hasn't been looking" until such a move is actually done.

He did move Beau in the Horvat deal.

But doesn't context play into this at all? Coming off two back-to-back Conference Finals appearances, we had the COVID season which was pretty much doomed from the start. Year after COVID was a middling year, and then they lost Barzal shortly after the Horvat trade, yet still made the playoffs and played pretty decently leading up to the playoffs before losing to Carolina. Right or wrong, there's just cause for still believing in the roster in these instances.

Fast forward to this year, while the team wasn't 100% healthy all season, they have been for the most part and certainly long enough to string together enough wins to get back to the playoffs. Sadly, it doesn't look like that's happening. So now, three years removed from the Conference Finals and a second head coach since Trotz, is it not unreasonable to think that this might in fact be the off-season that changes are made?

 

[The Real JT]

Maybe Lou was looking, who knows, but overall returns were low. Not a good year to sell one or two of the only pieces worth much. Off season better be fun.

It’s reasonable to assume that there will be at least one and possibly more than one significant trades for the Isles in the off-season even if Lou is at the helm.

It’s hard to imagine anyone thinking that an infusion of NHL quality talent, other than what we currently have, wouldn’t be prudent. Losing Clutter and Martin gets us minimal cap space and no prospects are knocking at the door. Even Lou must realize that anything resembling the status quo is a losing hand.