Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Doshell Propivo]

Sometimes it’s hard to discriminate between sarcasm and reality on these boards.

Tell me about it.

 

[periferal]

Commence bashing of John Scott....

 

[Zeeker]

Commence bashing of John Scott....

Somewhat unrelated, but I’ve seen that headline a few times now and it makes no sense. When he got Palmieri and Horvat, it doesn’t count because it wasn’t on the literal deadline day?

 

[PK Cronin]

Somewhat unrelated, but I’ve seen that headline a few times now and it makes no sense. When he got Palmieri and Horvat, it doesn’t count because it wasn’t on the literal deadline day?

I prefer the deals to happen before the deadline.

 

[MJF]

I prefer the deals to happen before the deadline.

I prefer to be solidly in a playoff spot before the deadline.

 

[Osakahaus]

I prefer to be solidly in a playoff spot before the deadline.

and I want the dunce of a coach to have been fired after numerous awful 3rd periods, but we cant have that, now can we?

 

[Zeeker]

I prefer to be solidly in a playoff spot before the deadline.

Aren’t the miracle playoff pushes so romantic though?

 

[xECK29x]

Commence bashing of John Scott....

This is such an awful take as Lou is WELL KNOWN for making moves before the deadline, which has has every year. The Isles have been involved in ever big player UFA or trade since he took over outside of this season. That is undeniably true.

 

[MJF]

Aren’t the miracle playoff pushes so romantic though?

Everybody loves a good Cinderalella story.

 

[The Real JT]

Everybody loves a good Cinderalella story.

Especially Carl Spackler.

 

[mm11]

a

Especially Carl Spackler.

about to become the Masters champion.

 

[SI]

Last time I heard that "anything can happen" philosophy thrown out about the Islanders it was by Garth Snow, so you'll pardon me if I expect more. The way teams like the Panthers and Knights have been going about their business the last few seasons sure feels like they're more like "let's make it f***ing happen." That's the kind of GM I want.

And I'm sure you'll retort with something about Vegas being handed unbelievably favorable expansion rules, but they still had to make all those trades, manage their cap, convince Pietrangelo to sign there, etc.

And what about Florida? Let's look at where their core was drafted...

Barkov -2nd overall
Ekblad - 1st overall
Tkachuk - 6th overall (got by trading Huberdeau who was drafted 3rd overall)
Reinhart - 4th overall
Bennett - 4th overall
And of course they convinced Bobrovsky to sign there.

I know you keep harping on the fact that rebuilds guarantee nothing and of course that is true. Yet when you look at the Stanley Cup champions over the past 20 years their rosters are littered with core players who were drafted in the top 10 of their draft years.

Look at the Penguins, Kings, Blackhawks, Lightning, Avalanche, etc - All of them had/have 2-3 elite players who were drafted when they absolutely sucked and drafted at the top of the 1st round the following years.

So to be clear once again...I'm not saying that a rebuild is necessary. But what I am saying is that this team needs to find a way to add the kind of elite talent that ultimately wins Championships - And short of a very rare Jack Eichel or Matthew Tkachuk trade, that talent is almost always found at the top end of the draft.

Anyway I hope you can truly digest what I wrote. I'm not attacking you or putting you down in any way. Just trying to get you to see how I see things even if we disagree.

Let's look deeper at your example, FLORIDA.

How easily an amazing playoff run can erase some people's memories AND convince a team they are real contenders.
Have you forgotten the Florida Panthers in March 2023 - they were in the same position fighting for a playoff spot with Islanders and Penguins.
They were atrocious losing to teams like the Hawks - Keith Tkachuk came in to say the team was SOFT on March 29th, then going on a heater - winning 5 in a row - after that and grabbed the 8th seed in the playoffs with 92 points. The Isles finished with 93. The Panthers played the Bruins, the president trophy winners with 135 POINTS, and beat them in 7, taking the Leafs in 5, and then sweeping Canes in 4 and landing in the Stanley Cup FINALS.

THAT GM at the TDL did not sell, even though his team needed to go 14-6 to get back into the race.
And let's take a look at your breakdown -
Barkov -2nd overall - correct
Ekblad - 1st overall - correct
Tkachuk - 6th overall (got by trading Huberdeau who was drafted 3rd overall) - also the only place Tkachuk wanted to go to, so you have that detail missed.
Reinhart - 4th overall - he was drafted 2nd overall by the Sabres and then traded and resigned, like oh yeah HORVAT.
Bennett - 4th overall - he was drafted in the same year as Reinhart 4 OA by the Flames and was on that bust/change of scenery guy.
And of course they convinced Bobrovsky to sign there - correct and they signed him for over 10m a year!

2 of those 6 of those core pieces were built from the draft and the other 4 were outside of the draft.

And please see this as me not attacking you, but helping you see another perspective.

PS
I will address the other parts of the post later but they have Bortuzzo coming back so why add someone like Miller or Ruhwedel.
It's just bitching to bitch or you don't really know how LL operates.

 

[saintunspecified]

This is such an awful take as Lou is WELL KNOWN for making moves before the deadline, which has has every year. The Isles have been involved in ever big player UFA or trade since he took over outside of this season. That is undeniably true.

What's odd is that Scott doesn't even mention the 4 year thing.

It's kind of a weird rant, and not all of it was false?

Still, like, if the Islanders had no young players, and only old players under contract nobody else wants.. how would they make trades?

And idk, say what you want, but NYI have won 5 playoff series in his NYI tenure. And maybe that's not super impressive (it's pretty good), but it's 4 more than the entire milbury + snow years.

 

[SI]

Aren’t the miracle playoff pushes so romantic though?

Yeah, they are really cute -

2023 Panthers were 8th seed
2021 Canadiens were like 12 th place in the play in format
2020 Stars were in 5th place in the central
2019 Blues miracle run from January on

 

[seafoam]

Sometimes it’s more about what team is playing well when the playoffs start than the full 82 game body of work…

 

[periferal]

Let's look deeper at your example, FLORIDA.

How easily an amazing playoff run can erase some people's memories AND convince a team they are real contenders.
Have you forgotten the Florida Panthers in March 2023 - they were in the same position fighting for a playoff spot with Islanders and Penguins.
They were atrocious losing to teams like the Hawks - Keith Tkachuk came in to say the team was SOFT on March 29th, then going on a heater - winning 5 in a row - after that and grabbed the 8th seed in the playoffs with 92 points. The Isles finished with 93. The Panthers played the Bruins, the president trophy winners with 135 POINTS, and beat them in 7, taking the Leafs in 5, and then sweeping Canes in 4 and landing in the Stanley Cup FINALS.

THAT GM at the TDL did not sell, even though his team needed to go 14-6 to get back into the race.
And let's take a look at your breakdown -
Barkov -2nd overall - correct
Ekblad - 1st overall - correct
Tkachuk - 6th overall (got by trading Huberdeau who was drafted 3rd overall) - also the only place Tkachuk wanted to go to, so you have that detail missed.
Reinhart - 4th overall - he was drafted 2nd overall by the Sabres and then traded and resigned, like oh yeah HORVAT.
Bennett - 4th overall - he was drafted in the same year as Reinhart 4 OA by the Flames and was on that bust/change of scenery guy.
And of course they convinced Bobrovsky to sign there - correct and they signed him for over 10m a year!

2 of those 6 of those core pieces were built from the draft and the other 4 were outside of the draft.

And please see this as me not attacking you, but helping you see another perspective.

Not taking anything as an attack. I just don't know what you're debating. I'm simply saying that...

You don't usually win the Cup until you have 2-3 elite players - That are typically drafted in the top half of the 1st round (if not top 5).

And after you draft/acuqire those players, it takes a while for them to learn how to win. With Tkachuk on board it clicked for Florida last year and they've been just about the best team in the league ever since. Prior to them it happened for the Kings, Penguins, Blackhawks, Lightning, and now potentially the Avalanche. All those team have/had elite players.

Again this isn't an exact science, but when you see a long-term history of the top drafted players leading to a Cup, that's a philosophy that would make more sense to follow than any other.

PS
I will address the other parts of the post later but they have Bortuzzo coming back so why add someone like Miller or Ruhwedel.
It's just bitching to bitch or you don't really know how LL operates.

Again you are twisting. I DO NOT CARE that Lou didn't make a move. Can you say that out loud in your room...? Perif DOES NOT CARE that Lou didn't make a move at the deadline.

If anything I'm thrilled he finally kept picks. I'm simply discussing my surprise that he didn't do something given that he has most years at some point before the deadline. You don't have to turn it into a "Tastes great...Less filling" black & white debate when I DO NOT CARE either way. It's just a discussion like most are having here.

Again...Do not care.

 

[Chardo]

This is still primarily the same roster that sucked under one coach, nearly won the Cup with a HOF coach, struggled under that coach's overwhelmed replacement, and is now is succeeding again with another Jack Adams winner.

 

[SI]

Not taking anything as an attack. I just don't know what you're debating. I'm simply saying that...

You don't usually win the Cup until you have 2-3 elite players - That are typically drafted in the top half of the 1st round (if not top 5).

And after you draft/acuqire those players, it takes a while for them to learn how to win. With Tkachuk on board it clicked for Florida last year and they've been just about the best team in the league ever since. Prior to them it happened for the Kings, Penguins, Blackhawks, Lightning, and now potentially the Avalanche. All those team have/had elite players.

Again this isn't an exact science, but when you see a long-term history of the top drafted players leading to a Cup, that's a philosophy that would make more sense to follow than any other.



Again you are twisting. I DO NOT CARE that Lou didn't make a move. Can you say that out loud in your room...? Perif DOES NOT CARE that Lou didn't make a move at the deadline.

If anything I'm thrilled he finally kept picks. I'm simply discussing my surprise that he didn't do something given that he has most years at some point before the deadline. You don't have to turn it into a "Tastes great...Less filling" black & white debate when I DO NOT CARE either way. It's just a discussion like most are having here.

Again...Do not care.

The Panther only started to click during their playoff run last season - that is my point. Before that they were mired in mediocrity- battling for the final spot, had to overpay to get a goalie, gave up a 1st for Reinhart, and we’re still stuck spinning their wheels.

The Isles have elite players and they should build on that and maximize this window. You can obtain elite talent thru the draft and the higher probability is during those top choices - but you can also get elite talent in other rounds - The Lightning are a prime example of this. You can also obtain elite talent via trade and Free agency. Similar to how the Isles obtained Horvat and the panthers Reinhart.

Draft is essential but it is a bit of magic beans.

Finally, You BITCH about LL all the time - even over some BS or shit you don’t care about it. But you do, you were using that observation (you don’t care about) to postulate some crazy theory that maybe LL is not in control and was told not to make a deal, because you have this hardon for Malkin meddling in the operations, when there is no evidence of that at all.

In fact, Malkin is slowing selling off stake in this venture and I’m sure as a businessman- he sees playoff hockey, which means $, he sees fans in seats, which means $, and the valuation of the franchise $$$, but in your eyes you think he sees a barren prospect pool and he is like - LOU you’re fired! It is absurd.

And finally, LL has never made a trade you thought he should have made at this deadline - never.

Buffalo game can’t come soon enough.

 

[beach]

Not taking anything as an attack. I just don't know what you're debating. I'm simply saying that...

You don't usually win the Cup until you have 2-3 elite players - That are typically drafted in the top half of the 1st round (if not top 5).

And after you draft/acuqire those players, it takes a while for them to learn how to win. With Tkachuk on board it clicked for Florida last year and they've been just about the best team in the league ever since. Prior to them it happened for the Kings, Penguins, Blackhawks, Lightning, and now potentially the Avalanche. All those team have/had elite players.

Again this isn't an exact science, but when you see a long-term history of the top drafted players leading to a Cup, that's a philosophy that would make more sense to follow than any other.



Again you are twisting. I DO NOT CARE that Lou didn't make a move. Can you say that out loud in your room...? Perif DOES NOT CARE that Lou didn't make a move at the deadline.

If anything I'm thrilled he finally kept picks. I'm simply discussing my surprise that he didn't do something given that he has most years at some point before the deadline. You don't have to turn it into a "Tastes great...Less filling" black & white debate when I DO NOT CARE either way. It's just a discussion like most are having here.

Again...Do not care.

Remember Perif - Mediocrity until your team doesn't make the playoffs is always the best way to go. Once your team doesn't make the playoffs, only then can you start a rebuild. Even if your team never gets out of the first round, that's okay, because you simply cannot implement any sort of rebuild while your core players are in their prime. You never know, your team may in fact make it to the second round. Don't rock the boat as it may sink.

 

[SI90]

Byram has been on fire since joining the Sabres. If he can stay healthy he has the chance to be special. Huge fan of his

 

[Throttle]

Somewhat unrelated, but I’ve seen that headline a few times now and it makes no sense. When he got Palmieri and Horvat, it doesn’t count because it wasn’t on the literal deadline day?

If anything, isn’t it better to acquire the player earlier in time to allow for the adjustment, especially a critical player, in time for the playoffs?

And…Lou’s moves worked. Where’s the goofy graphs on trade deadline value?

 

[SI]

Remember Perif - Mediocrity until your team doesn't make the playoffs is always the best way to go. Once your team doesn't make the playoffs, only then can you start a rebuild. Even if your team never gets out of the first round, that's okay, because you simply cannot implement any sort of rebuild while your core players are in their prime. You never know, your team may in fact make it to the second round. Don't rock the boat as it may sink.

You guys should start a bowling team and call yourself the “rebuilders”

 

[Throttle]

This is still primarily the same roster that sucked under one coach, nearly won the Cup with a HOF coach, struggled under that coach's overwhelmed replacement, and is now is succeeding again with another Jack Adams winner.

Yeah, I mean Horvat and Sorokin have been here the entire time. And Barzal and Dobson are the ‘same’ players during that time too.

Garth did such a great job from the bleachers…

 

[PK Cronin]

Yeah, I mean Horvat and Sorokin have been here the entire time. And Barzal and Dobson are the ‘same’ players during that time too.

Garth did such a great job from the bleachers…

I looked at the rosters when I read this post and I believe there are 9 players who played for Weight that are still on the team.

Aho played 22 games that year.
Barzal was a rookie.
It was the first full season for Pelech and Pulock, while Mayfield play half the season (47 games).

The other more established players by that time were Nelson, Clutterbuck, Cizikas, and Lee.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

You don't usually win the Cup until you have 2-3 elite players - That are typically drafted in the top half of the 1st round (if not top 5).

This isn't about winning the Cup or having elite players, it's about the excitement of drafting in the top 5.