Nikishin al Gaib
THIS is hockey?
- Jun 8, 2017
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Roster Building XXV: Winning Rantanen's Undying Love
- Thread starter cptjeff
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AD Skinner
Registered User
robbieberns
Registered User
I’m sorry, you just can’t build a team this small and win in the playoffs.
CanesUltimate11
Registered User
I find myself torn on this. That he is willing to discuss an extension with Dallas having not played a game for them yet (but he has seen them plenty obviously) when he wasn't willing to with us makes me think cut bait and run. But part of me also thinks sooner or later his damn ego and pride will take over and he'll want to win and stop freaking moping.
edit: assuming he won't do a sign and trade. If he will then make the deal.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
yep. Pesce by all indications wanted to stay here last season and the frustration was the lack of talks since they were focused on Guentzel and making that work but taking our sweet-ass f***ing time about it. Meet Guentzel's ask a month before the draft instead of at the draft and he's still here. Know that Guentzel is going to market a month before the draft and Pesce is still here.
the halleJOKEL
strong as brickwall
- Jul 21, 2006
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the Seth Jarvis episode of the Amazon show is going to be a wild ride
Looking at it another way: Rants and his agent unable to agree on an extension with 3 different Top 10 teams within 2 months.
Oilslick941611
Registered User
not much you can do when you have a tight deadline and an unreasonable player/agent who wants to wait for the summer
AhosDatsyukian
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- Sep 25, 2020
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If the return is reasonable for a high end rental like it was with Guentzel that is one thing, but you cannot trade a f***ing core piece you drafted with a year and a half on his contract for a pending UFA without an extension in place. That's my biggest issue with this whole situation. Necas was by far our best asset on the trade market and he could've gotten us some serious long term help in a position of need (2C, RHD, etc.). Big mistake giving that away for a shitshow like this.
But what's done is done, this team will be completely fine in the long run. It's 1 bad move from a front office that has pretty much had all great moves up to this point, so they haven't lost my trust yet. Although I think there is something to the belief that a nerdy numbers guy like Tulsky may not be an ideal GM for situations like this. Massive miscalculation in a vacuum. But if we keep drafting and developing well, it's really not that big of a deal.
Hopefully we get some good young cost controlled pieces that will help us in the long term. If Mikko does extend with Dallas as part of the trade, we really should be getting a Johnston or Robertson caliber player in return, with Johnston being my strong preference.
But what's done is done, this team will be completely fine in the long run. It's 1 bad move from a front office that has pretty much had all great moves up to this point, so they haven't lost my trust yet. Although I think there is something to the belief that a nerdy numbers guy like Tulsky may not be an ideal GM for situations like this. Massive miscalculation in a vacuum. But if we keep drafting and developing well, it's really not that big of a deal.
Hopefully we get some good young cost controlled pieces that will help us in the long term. If Mikko does extend with Dallas as part of the trade, we really should be getting a Johnston or Robertson caliber player in return, with Johnston being my strong preference.
I mean they talked with Dallas about an extension last night so that’s more than what they were willing to do with Carolina. Still be surprised if it doesn’t get done
I would honestly take Johnston straight up for a signed Rantanen at this point. You’ve got your right handed 2c for years to come
Beyond the numbers, it’s as if they have a designated target team (and have fabric of a deal set up already)
did someone say guentzal and rantanen share an agent? the tactic of refusing to negotiate seems odd to me. did they give a 'offer this, and we will sign' number? if so, i get it. but it feels like, with both guentzal and rantanen that info wasn't offered - probably in the hope the canes would offer more - so it seems a bit bad-faith to me.
when guentzal's team was directly asked what is required, that was immediately offered. yeah, too late since the agent had unofficial word from tampa.
all i'm saying is, if you will refuse to negotiate up, state your price clearly. though it still doesn't guarantee they'll accept, at least we can switch up the 'dundon so cheap / lowball' taunts to the 'hurr durr raleigh sux no one wants to be there i migrated down to apex instead' taunts.
AhosDatsyukian
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2020
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Turning Necas, Drury and picks into Johnston would actually be damn good business. Not really getting my hopes up though, I think if we do get a big piece for extended Rants it'd be Robertson. Which I'd be cool with, he's a 100pt player too...
DaveG
Noted Jerk
I honestly think about the only way I could stomach the outcome of this is if Dallas pays out the ass (Stank + Bischel + 1st + another prospect) and we turn around and turn that 1st and secondary prospect into Geekie and Marchand coming from Boston. Johnston's not happening.
Borsig
PoKechetkov
Borsig
PoKechetkov
Yep he's going to be difficult and not sign shit. I hope he tanks his own value. I wish we could send him to Anaheim or Buffalo signed lol.
This should be the last time we trade for players like this
I would be amazed if they can pull that package. Even without Bischel I think it would be a solid package under the circumstances, although an underwhelming package for Necas.
But given how much trouble they had getting a good return for Necas in the summer, I think Tulsky swung at the best return he thought he could get and thought putting the money up there would be enough to get Rantanen to sign. Wasn't the case.
If this falls through, do you consider trading Rantanen for a different pending UFA wing (Ehlers, Boeser) plus another piece and try to sign them? Or just run it through with Rantanen and then try to sign one of them July 1?
The Faulker 27
Registered User
If it happens, Dallas makes complete sense with how many Finnish players are on the team, large city, and no state tax. I get why it might be a more desirable destination than Raleigh.
Rick Davis
Registered User
- Dec 31, 2020
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I would think that Brock going to the Avs would put some extra pressure on Dallas to make a big splash at the TDL…who could they get that would be more impactful than mopey Mikko?
AhosDatsyukian
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2020
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This whole situation is outrageous. It wouldn't even shock me to see us extend him today. His agent has been allowed to negotiate with other teams now and seems like they don't like what other teams are offering all that much so maybe we decide to just pony up a bit more and get him locked in. Not the most likely outcome obviously but I still wouldn't rule it out.
evidently the trade terms have been agreed to subject to rantanen signing the extension. to me, canes knew it would be a risk to get an extension prior to the deadline so they made the trade with plenty of runway before the deadline. i still think the optics look terrible for the Canes and in particular Dundon. players and agents will try and exploit this. guessing rantanen's agent is working this angle hard.
if the trade gets completed today, Canes will be branded the loser and it will not be close. media will brand the organization as not a desirable place to play and an owner who treats contract negotiations as war. they likely f*cked around with Guentzel and he told them go pound sand and got a better offer. devil is in the details -it's not just total dollars on these contracts. Dundon is extremely smart and aggressive, and the team follows this style with its negotiation tactics. if they lose Rantanen over several million dollars, it's a bad look. I would argue that amount is goodwill and creates additional value to the franchise via player relations, fan support, et al.
I applaud mgmt.'s efforts to go for it with Guentzel and Rantanen trades but IMO they have to critically look at their salary model. why do they consistently undercut market value on players. at times, its smart as they avoid long term contracts on advanced age players but in the case of a superstar type player and contract, it's not by itself a salary cap anchor. does it help or hurt the team to walk from a Guentzel and rantanen over maybe less than $1m of AAV?
to me, Dundon is still adjusting to having to pay out huge contracts every year to remain a viable and consistent cup contender. it his team and his business experience leads him to run the organization a certain way. have to respect that however I think ultimateyl it will lead to poor on ice results.
Borsig
PoKechetkov
Canes should be looking to improve the team today but looks like one of our own players is gonna dictate the day and not allow us to do anything else and then end up staying just a gongshow
I think so at this point. My gut tells me he doesn’t sign here long term and goes UFA.
Best we can hope for is he plays inspired to help his status and helps us make a playoff run (I think I share your opinion that we aren’t built for a deep run right now….but playoffs are a crapshoot). I’d hope he has enough pride to play for himself, his teammates, and a playoff run, business side be damned.
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