Roster Building XXII: Too Many Forwards, Hopefully One Cup

[To Be Determined]

Look, Kokonut has to contemplate all of the context in which he lives and which has come before him before he shoots.

on the plus side for him, whenever he retires he'll have a job waiting at the secret service

 

[Justicebork]

Look, Kokonut has to contemplate all of the context in which he lives and which has come before him before he shoots.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Can Lemieux fill the Fast role with Staal?

No

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Sprong isn't worth the roster spot. Rather use that ice time to see if Suzuki will sink or swim.

The offensive analytics say otherwise, especially if he's used in the Noesen role, but he still may be asking for too much.

 

[DaveG]

Can Lemieux fill the Fast role with Staal?

Nope, but a Carrier - Staal - Marty line might fit the bill

 

[Stickpucker]

I think we could make a trade but if we did before signing our rfas we lose some leverage as teams know we need the cap space.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get Jarvis and Necas done....whatever that means then make a trade with someone like Vegas or Col. We may even have something agreed in principle for after arbitration.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I think we could make a trade but if we did before signing our rfas we lose some leverage as teams know we need the cap space.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get Jarvis and Necas done....whatever that means then make a trade with someone like Vegas or Col. We may even have something agreed in principle for after arbitration.

What are we trading though? Many of our "expendable" assets went into the Guentzel trade, we're apparently expecting some of our prospects to step up and fight for a spot this year, and our 1st is likely going to be mid round at worst.

 

[SlavinAway]

I kind of hope they just stand pat more or less this year. If we can take advantage of a cap strapped team like VGK or COL obviously you do it but I don't see a reason to go searching beyond that at this point.

Give the new guys a year to learn the system, let the kids prove themselves in the AHL with call ups as possible. I think all of Svech, Jarvis, Necas, and KK have more to give and they'll have plenty of opportunity.

Regroup next year when hopefully Morrow and Nikishin are ready for full-time NHL duties and use our cap space to go big game hunting at that point to kick off the new window.

I think we'll see a regression this season, though I do still expect playoffs, but with our system it's not out of the realm of possibility that the right group of role players could become more than the sum of their parts and go on a legitimate run.

 

[bleedgreen]

The offensive analytics say otherwise, especially if he's used in the Noesen role, but he still may be asking for too much.

Sprong is a very us move and I’ve been wondering about it. I’m not a big fan but he makes sense for how we do things. He may not be a system fit, which would explain why we haven’t gone after him. He’d probably be Dzingle 2.0 but he’s had some solid recent years, it’s always struck me as odd no one keeps him. Like Rodriguez was for years.

 

[bleedgreen]

What are we trading though? Many of our "expendable" assets went into the Guentzel trade, we're apparently expecting some of our prospects to step up and fight for a spot this year, and our 1st is likely going to be mid round at worst.

This is how I see it. We don’t have extra assets anymore after the trade. The only forward prospects that are of value are the small handful we have in the AHL and as of now it seems we need all of them aside from maybe Suzuki. We have a ton of prospects overall but I don’t think they hold much trade value, at least not for an impact forward. Nikishin and Morrow have value, maybe Heimosalmi has some.

I think a trade for an impact forward hurts us right now. We had enough “extra” guys to make a big move once, and we sure did throw volume at that trade. In time a pecking order will develop amongst the AHL guys and then maybe one of those guys becomes more expendable than the others. To me Blake, Gleb and Nadeau are all equals right now, and I would’ve put Koivunen and Pono right in the same cluster.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

This is how I see it. We don’t have extra assets anymore after the trade. The only forward prospects that are of value are the small handful we have in the AHL and as of now it seems we need all of them aside from maybe Suzuki. We have a ton of prospects overall but I don’t think they hold much trade value, at least not for an impact forward. Nikishin and Morrow have value, maybe Heimosalmi has some.

I think a trade for an impact forward hurts us right now. We had enough “extra” guys to make a big move once, and we sure did throw volume at that trade. In time a pecking order will develop amongst the AHL guys and then maybe one of those guys becomes more expendable than the others. To me Blake, Gleb and Nadeau are all equals right now, and I would’ve put Koivunen and Pono right in the same cluster.

I think the prospects we have right now need a maturation period before they decide which ones are good trade bait. Now's not the time to make the move.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don't get the mentality that we no longer have any expendable prospects for a trade. We essentially traded two propsects that were 5th and tied for 6th in our prospect ranking.

One of them, Pono, was close to NHL ready, but the other wasn't much further along or more valuable than say FUS, Heimosalmi, Blake, Suzuki, Morrow, Gleb, etc... Pono might have had a chance at a bottom 6 role this year in Carolina but I doubt Koivunen would have gotten a shot at all with the Canes this year. I do think he may become a good NHLr though and may have more of an opportunity in Pittsburgh than he would have here.

I'm not saying the Canes will make a trade of one of those guys, but I'm confident if the right deal came along, the Canes would include any of these guys, or more (excluding Nikishin) depending on the player. The problem is more that "the right deal" isn't always available this time of year. Teams have their rosters mainly defined by now.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't get the mentality that we no longer have any expendable prospects for a trade. We essentially traded two propsects that were 5th and tied for 6th in our prospect ranking.

One of them, Pono, was close to NHL ready, but the other wasn't much further along or more valuable than say FUS, Heimosalmi, Blake, Suzuki, Morrow, Gleb, etc... Pono might have had a chance at a bottom 6 role this year in Carolina but I doubt Koivunen would have gotten a shot at all with the Canes this year. I do think he may become a good NHLr though and may have more of an opportunity in Pittsburgh than he would have here.

I'm not saying the Canes will make a trade of one of those guys, but I'm confident if the right deal came along, the Canes would include any of these guys, or more (excluding Nikishin) depending on the player. The problem is more that "the right deal" isn't always available this time of year. Teams have their rosters mainly defined by now.

I think my point is if we trade enough value to get a good player this year it’s coming from the top of our list instead of the middle which makes it much more consequential to do it. We had enough guys that had value that we could afford to move two and take a chance, and still have good players getting ready to help out. Doesn’t feel the same right now, but like I said in time the current group will develop a hierarchy and maybe someone who still has value becomes trade bait. Maybe that happens by next deadline.

I think it’s also fair to say most of our prospects won’t have room to make the team because we always make sure we’re deep on the big team so almost all should be viewed as expendable assets anyways. I think that’s my argument against my own theory of us not having as many options as before. I would trade Nikishin if it’s the right player coming back. I would’ve traded him for Tkachuk a couple of years ago.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think my point is if we trade enough value to get a good player this year it’s coming from the top of our list instead of the middle which makes it much more consequential to do it. We had enough guys that had value that we could afford to move two and take a chance, and still have good players getting ready to help out.

Sure, but those at the top of our lists aren't the same quality of asset you move for a deadline deal like Guentzel. Teams rarely trade prospects at the top of their list for a rental at the deadline unless there's an extension.

When you are trading for an impact player that isn't a rental, some of those assets at the top of the list become expendable because a team is getting greater value in return than just a rental.

Doesn’t feel the same right now, but like I said in time the current group will develop a hierarchy and maybe someone who still has value becomes trade bait. Maybe that happens by next deadline.

It feels just like it felt last off-season to me. At that point in time, we'd have offered almost any of them for an Eichel or Tkachuk or even Meier type deal. Pono and especially Koivunen weren't viewed as highly back then as they were at the deadline. Koivunen's game and scoring really took off this season.

I think it’s also fair to say most of our prospects won’t have room to make the team because we always make sure we’re deep on the big team so almost all should be viewed as expendable assets anyways. I think that’s my argument against my own theory of us not having as many options as before. I would trade Nikishin if it’s the right player coming back. I would’ve traded him for Tkachuk a couple of years ago.

Yep. Exactly my point. If the right deal came along, the Canes have plenty of prospects they could, and likely would, include in a deal, so they are expendable for the right deal.

The problem is like I said earlier, "the right deal" is often hard to come by this time of year as most teams have their rosters mainly sorted out. And it doesn't make sense to go after a player who is a marginal top 6 player.

 

[Stickpucker]

I think my point is if we trade enough value to get a good player this year it’s coming from the top of our list instead of the middle which makes it much more consequential to do it. We had enough guys that had value that we could afford to move two and take a chance, and still have good players getting ready to help out. Doesn’t feel the same right now, but like I said in time the current group will develop a hierarchy and maybe someone who still has value becomes trade bait. Maybe that happens by next deadline.

I think it’s also fair to say most of our prospects won’t have room to make the team because we always make sure we’re deep on the big team so almost all should be viewed as expendable assets anyways. I think that’s my argument against my own theory of us not having as many options as before. I would trade Nikishin if it’s the right player coming back. I would’ve traded him for Tkachuk a couple of years ago.

I don't think they are looking for a good player right now...like a Tkachuk or Eichel

I think they're after a step in with some warts. A Burns, Patches, Laine.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't think they are looking for a good player right now...like a Tkachuk or Eichel

I think they're after a step in with some warts. A Burns, Patches, Laine.

Laine still feels like a possibility but I don’t know that we have the room for him. Or that they can trade him yet anyways. That’s me talking though. Every time someone mentions Laine behind the scenes Rod probably gives them the ref treatment including neck and face veins popping out.

 

[NotOpie]

tldr - too many untested/inexperienced players for too few slots

There's no doubt the roster is in flux right now.

Assuming that Necas and Jarvis are re-signed, we've got our 1st and 2nd line RWs (unless Rod insists on playing Jarvis w/Staal and Martinook - a slot in which he's been successful). And there's the distinct possibility that one of them slots in as 2C.

However, I do believe that Roslovic was signed to play either 2RW or 3RW (and provide some RH faceoff protection, albeit he's a bit weak in that realm). My question about Roslovic is whether or not he has the defensive chops to play on what is really our shut down line. My sense is that he was Necas insurance, but we probably don't need that, at least not now.

As I see things right now, I believe we have 2 LW slots (2nd and 4th line) and one or two RW slots (depending on how 2C shakes out 2nd, 3rd, or 4th line) that will drive positional battles during camp and pre-seasons. Given that one of Drury or Kotkaniemi could be moved to LW, that might open a center slot as well. But as it stands now, I see these competitions shaping up (given our current roster):

Left Wing - Svech and Martinook are our likely 1st and 3rd line LWs

Leaving:

Lemieux
Carrier
Robinson
maybe Suzuki
potentially Kotkaniemi and/or Drury
Jaaska is a potential wild card (but likely AHL fodder or 13th forward)

Right Wing - Necas and Jarvis have the inside track to 1st and 2nd line RW (again, unless one of them moves to center)

Leaving:

Roslovic
Unger-Sorum
Nadeau
Blake

Unless some move is made, I'm wondering if this is what Roddy is thinking:

Svech/Aho/Necas
Kotkaniemi or Drury/Roslovic/Unger-Sorum
Martinook/Staal/Jarvis
Carrier/Drury or Kotkaniemi/Robinson
Lemieux

We know he liked FUS who almost made the team last season. If he could handle the wear and tear, perhaps you swap Jarvis and FUS putting the kid in a more defensive role.

Keeping with Rod's tendencies, it would more likely shake out to be:

Svech/Aho/Necas
Kotkaniemi/Jarvis/Roslovic
Martinook/Staal/Unger-Sorum
Carrier/Drury/Robinson
Lemieux

I think the team would like to see both Blake and Nadeau get big minutes in Chicago. I also think that they really want to see what they have in Trikozov (a bit bigger, tons of skill, very good skater) who also might surprise in camp. Jost, to me, is AHL filler. Josiah Slavin and Juha Jaaska are the 14th and/or 15th forwards. As much as I liked some of what I saw in Suzuki, I don't see where he fits in the organization.

My long winded two cents worth...

 

[Chrispy]

Laine still feels like a possibility but I don’t know that we have the room for him. Or that they can trade him yet anyways. That’s me talking though. Every time someone mentions Laine behind the scenes Rod probably gives them the ref treatment including neck and face veins popping out.

I don’t know if it’s a “can’t” trade him or if Waddell simply won’t until he gets to talk to Laine, and he’s not allowed to talk to Laine while Laine is still in the program.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t know if it’s a “can’t” trade him or if Waddell simply won’t until he gets to talk to Laine, and he’s not allowed to talk to Laine while Laine is still in the program.

I meant I don’t think DW can trade him while he’s in the program. That feels like a rule that must be in place to protect from an HR nightmare.

 

[NotOpie]

I meant I don’t think DW can trade him while he’s in the program. That feels like a rule that must be in place to protect from an HR nightmare.

It is.

 

[Chrispy]

I meant I don’t think DW can trade him while he’s in the program. That feels like a rule that must be in place to protect from an HR nightmare.

Apparently he could. I agree that seems like a major HR issue.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811499897503568250

 

[bleedgreen]

Apparently he could. I agree that seems like a major HR issue.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811499897503568250

That’s pretty mind blowing they could trade a guy while he’s getting that kind of assistance.

 

[spockBokk]

If they’re keeping both Necas and Jarvis, then fitting Laine in will be next to impossible, even with Fast on LTIR or retired. I suppose it might work if they sent Kotkaniemi back, but that doesn’t really seem to make sense for CBJ.

I was under the impression that they were going to let Morrow have a spot on D and they’d have more to spend up front…should’ve known better. They certainly found a ton of value in the Gostisbehere and Walker contracts. But by allocating that $7M to the blueline, it makes it much harder to add another forward, this year at least. I’m guessing they are making a bet that Carrier and maybe to a lesser extent, Jost/Robinson, are such good fits in RBA’s system that one of them may play “up”.

Roslovic may get some top 6 time too, but he doesn’t really have a spot over Jarvis or Necas, unless he (or one of Jarvis/Necas) gets moved to 2C.

I wonder if they give out some PTOs this year, with the likes of A Nylander, Kubalik, Sprong, Zadina, etc still being available. My bet would be they’d give preference to a vet on a PTO performing well in camp over a rookie if it came down to it for a roster spot.

 

[LakeLivin]

Thinking about the chance of any of our young forward prospects getting time with the Canes this season.

Fus is about to turn 19 yo
Nadeau just turned 19
GLEB! is about to turn 20
Blake is about to turn 21

On the one hand, there's the worry about rushing the development of any of them. On the other hand, the Borg isn't in a situation where for whatever reason they'd "need" to keep any of them on the Canes roster if time with the Wolves would be in the best interest of their respective development. Unlike what we've seen with a number of different kids (ours and others) whose development seemed to have been hurt by putting and keeping them in the NHL too soon.

Jarvis was actually getting ice time with the Canes at 18, and Aho at 19.

There's at least one of you who I'll save some typing by pointing out that I'm not suggesting any of these kids will immediately be another Jarvis or Aho, lol. And I didn't forget about Suzuki, he's just in a different situation from the kids above, one I have no idea how to evaluate.

 

[Derailed75]

Thinking about the chance of any of our young forward prospects getting time with the Canes this season.

Fus is about to turn 19 yo
Nadeau just turned 19
GLEB! is about to turn 20
Blake is about to turn 21

On the one hand, there's the worry about rushing the development of any of them. On the other hand, the Borg isn't in a situation where for whatever reason they'd "need" to keep any of them on the Canes roster if time with the Wolves would be in the best interest of their respective development. Unlike what we've seen with a number of different kids (ours and others) whose development seemed to have been hurt by putting and keeping them in the NHL too soon.

Jarvis was actually getting ice time with the Canes at 18, and Aho at 19.

There's at least one of you who I'll save some typing by pointing out that I'm not suggesting any of these kids will immediately be another Jarvis or Aho, lol. And I didn't forget about Suzuki, he's just in a different situation from the kids above, one I have no idea how to evaluate.

Svech was 18 i think