Roster Building XXI: It Gon' Go Down.

[robbieberns]

We better have a big day tomorrow or else we’re going to have to go deep into our futures just to fill out the roster and that’s not not even considering high end talent.

 

[Highest Boss]

What did TT even do?

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t know if I’m expecting much. Early on anyways. We like to snipe the items a little further back in the store. Once the rush for the stuff in the windows is gone we’ll probably start making some noise.

 

[baconandbread]

Not quite sure I agree there...Orlov - Chatty is a decent downgrade from Pesce - Skjei, as will the resulting 3rd pair. We're also down 2 top 6 forwards (Bunting & TT had 2nd line production even if not ideal), plus the Necas situation. Freddie may not be able to handle a full season and Kooch is still inconsistent at best. We're a handful away from being "basically the same" team

Don't need to agree on this but add a Pesce like defenceman and that changes everything on the D pairings. We have no idea what a Necas trade might bring in. But we don't need to trade him and he'll be motivated enough for his next contract. We've been a top team for a few years now without Guentzel/last year's lineup.

 

[chaz4hockey]

We didn’t screw up the Guentzel situation, he didn’t want to stay.

Just ride necas to arbitration, let him get 6 million and have a reset year.

Maybe chase debrusk. See what the RHD market looks like, it will be too high.

Get a couple of 1 year pieces and move on.

That's a losing proposition....Aho-Svetch-Slavin-Jarvis are in their prime.

Plus, Necas is a high end player. Thus, they need to move Necas and get good assets for him, not just ride him to free agency.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

That's a losing proposition....Aho-Svetch-Slavin-Jarvis are in their prime.

Plus, Necas is a high end player. Thus, they need to move Necas and get good assets for him, not just ride him to free agency.

He has 2 years of control. Going 1 year of player chosen arb doesn’t change that

 

[Lempo]

And then when oilers fans are upset about it tweet #cry at them.

Color the oil drop in their logo into a tear.

 

[Lempo]

He has 2 years of control. Going 1 year of player chosen arb doesn’t change that

There's the extra stepping stone, but the one year arbitration award would effectively be a 1+1, the latter year coming in the form of one year QO in the summer 2025 equivalent to the one year SPC he gets through the arb. It's a not-unplausible strategy.

 

[Chrispy]

Isn’t it a touch odd that none of the Canes’ UFAs re-signed mid-season? Surely they could have extended, say, Martinook the heart and soul guy?

Maybe no one wanted to, maybe in-season negotiation isn’t something the Canes do, I just find it weird that with so much roster uncertainty upcoming for the summer of 2024, they didn’t try to mitigate some of it.

Maybe they did. No idea. But this isnt close to an ideal situation.

Interesting you pick Martinook there, who was a negotiation right up to the 11th hour in 2021 with him even publicly alluding to the fact he thought his time in Carolina was done in the exit interviews.

Those are exactly the pieces Dundon needs to squeeze to make space for a player like Guentzel. Or Stamkos.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Interesting you pick Martinook there, who was a negotiation right up to the 11th hour in 2021 with him even publicly alluding to the fact he thought his time in Carolina was done in the exit interviews.

Those are exactly the pieces Dundon needs to squeeze to make space for a player like Guentzel. Or Stamkos.

…..because their 4.something a year Kotkieniemi play flopped, you’re exactly right

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

There's the extra stepping stone, but the one year arbitration award would effectively be a 1+1, the latter year coming in the form of one year QO in the summer 2025 equivalent to the one year SPC he gets through the arb. It's a not-unplausible strategy.

it does allow Necas to gain value and we can trade him in the offseason

 

[ElmCityGuy]

Depending on the next few weeks we may need to edit the thread title.

Roster Building XXI: It Gon' Go Down... the toilet.​

 

[Stickpucker]

Elliott's recap pod last night basically framed it as 8x8 being the initial ask from Guentzel's camp right after the season ended, so our FO always thought we had that to fall back on depending on how the off season played out. So they decided on Thursday/Friday they wanted to go ahead and do 8x8, but it sounds like they flew to close to the sun of July 1 and leaving him unsigned allowed other teams space to get into the race.

I hope it's not the case, but I think the Guentzel to Tampa ship has sailed at this point. Elliott floated Tampa as a dark horse on Friday morning, and the longer he's gone unsigned combined with the Sergachev/Jeannot trades seem to be a pretty good indication Tampa is confident they're getting him.

This is probably just me being petty, but I'd rather not trade his rights for something like a late 3rd at best. I'd rather make Tampa carry the extra $1m on cap for 7 years.

If you like it put a ring on it or someone else will.

 

[Lempo]

If you like it put a ring on it or someone else will.

Why did you have to.

 

[Buenos Necas]

We'll see if July 1 changes anything, but at this point I would just do a 1-year deal with Necas. Obviously the right trade hasn't materialized, but I'm glad we didn't just sell him off for the highest draft pick. Maybe they can just agree to a reasonable amount (6m?), avoid arb altogether and hold off the threat of an offer sheet.

We're obviously lacking top-6 (and frankly top-9) talent at the moment, let him come into camp highly-motivated to show last year was the outlier and the 70-point season was real. Hopefully he gets off to a hot start and his market will be different once we get part-way through the season and teams can reassess their needs. That'll give better options for a hockey trade and the acquiring team could extend him after Jan 1. He's too talented, I think this is a case where patience will be rewarded.

 

[whiskers]

Im actually worried for tomorrow , as Woody Allen gets overwhelmed and pressured and signs/overpay 2nd tier player like Semin and screw us for later years.
From what I understand the Guenztel asking price was at the end of the season , not 2-3 days ago , and we were shopping his rights like a week ago , I wouldn't sign either...for spite

 

[htdoc]

Sucks we aren’t getting Guentzel to stay.

If he wasn’t willing to stay in Pittsburgh with Crosby for an 8 year deal, it was always going to be a difficult sell……just like GMs lie to the public, players and especially their agents are less than honest as well and will do whatever they can to push blame elsewhere and make themselves look as good as they can… we will never know the true story… but Guentzel appears to be getting what he wants after establishing his market and interest…. Good luck to him…. He will never finish his career there…. Tampa will dump him somewhere the second it benefits them to do so. Just ask Sergachev how much loyalty is shown to you when you commit long term to the team and give your all including your physical well being to the team…. They do have a good coach for now, at least…

I’ll come back maybe tomorrow or a day or two later once free agency plays out a bit as the negativity is on another scale today.

We were safely in a playoff spot sitting in second place in our division and within striking distance of winning the division before the trade deadline.

We have a lot of turnover, but there are a number of options for free agents out there. It’s not as thin a free agent class as in previous years. Many options to fill out the roster along with our existing players under contract…. I’m sure we will find a good combo of players that still allow room for our prospects to come in and compete and win spots as they develop….

 

[Svechhammer]

At this point I'm resigned to next year being a rebuilding year. This team is not going to be as good as they were the last few. At best this upcoming season is a holding pattern year before Nikishin comes over. Wouldn't be surprised to see us sellers at the dealine moving out Burns and Orlov to contenders to build up equity for 2025-26 and beyond.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

It's the most wonderful time of the year!

Everyone gets so mad about this shit, when the fact is that we'll almost certainly spend to the cap again, we'll very likely be in the playoffs again, and despite all these amazing players that have come and gone, the vast majority of them haven't won Cups anywhere else. Because it's really f***ing hard!

We have no idea what this roster will look like in October. None. Why does everyone always assume that the team never has a plan, when with the exception of DW, all the decision makers are exactly the same?

They met his number. He changed his mind. They'll spend that money on someone else. We'll fall in love with the new guys. The world will continue to turn.

 

[AD Skinner]

Why did you have to.

 

[User13452]

Seravalli says canes have re engaged with Skjei after trading Guentzel.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

It's the most wonderful time of the year!

Everyone gets so mad about this shit, when the fact is that we'll almost certainly spend to the cap again, we'll very likely be in the playoffs again, and despite all these amazing players that have come and gone, the vast majority of them haven't won Cups anywhere else. Because it's really f***ing hard!

We have no idea what this roster will look like in October. None. Why does everyone always assume that the team never has a plan, when with the exception of DW, all the decision makers are exactly the same?

They met his number. He changed his mind. They'll spend that money on someone else. We'll fall in love with the new guys. The world will continue to turn.

how dare you can't you see we are mid-spiral

 

[Borsig]

Seravalli says canes have re engaged with Skjei after trading Guentzel.

Honestly? I'd rather have skjei at 6 than guentz at 9

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

It's the most wonderful time of the year!

Everyone gets so mad about this shit, when the fact is that we'll almost certainly spend to the cap again, we'll very likely be in the playoffs again, and despite all these amazing players that have come and gone, the vast majority of them haven't won Cups anywhere else. Because it's really f***ing hard!

We have no idea what this roster will look like in October. None. Why does everyone always assume that the team never has a plan, when with the exception of DW, all the decision makers are exactly the same?

They met his number. He changed his mind. They'll spend that money on someone else. We'll fall in love with the new guys. The world will continue to turn.

It sucks because you guys are the guys I most want to talk about the offseason with, but unfortunately for 90% of the offseason you are also the people that I least want to talk about the offseason with.

 

[Sigurd]

Not quite sure I agree there...Orlov - Chatty is a decent downgrade from Pesce - Skjei, as will the resulting 3rd pair. We're also down 2 top 6 forwards (Bunting & TT had 2nd line production even if not ideal), plus the Necas situation. Freddie may not be able to handle a full season and Kooch is still inconsistent at best. We're a handful away from being "basically the same" team

Yeah, some people are downplaying the seriousness of the depth/magnitude of loss that faces our roster.

True, the Canes have had success at finding replacements and still making the playoffs in the past, but at this quality and quantity in one off season? No, this off season is truly different. Also, at a certain point, you can't help but think the right pieces just aren't there and the roster takes a genuine step back (or more with how this summer is looking so far).

Also, yes, obviously things could change. However, this is a very daunting looking off season; so fans can be forgiven for not being optimistic.